The Politics Thread

[Prufrock]

What happened in 1958?

[KeyserSoze]

formation of the EEC?

[Prufrock]

Ah, so us being able to trade freely with every country got in to difficulties once the Europeans clubbed together and started their own group?

Good job we're not going to be on the outside of anything like that then.

[boltonboris]

Ah, so us being able to trade freely with every country got in to difficulties once the Europeans clubbed together and started their own group?

Good job we're not going to be on the outside of anything like that then.

Because the world hasn't changed in 59 years

[Worthy4England]

Ah, so us being able to trade freely with every country got in to difficulties once the Europeans clubbed together and started their own group?

Good job we're not going to be on the outside of anything like that then.

Because the world hasn't changed in 59 years

It has - all that time without the world's predominant navy.

All we really need to do, is build a navy of humungous proportions. And like Trump is doing, start the industrial revolution in Europe - we can call it IR4.0 (although some other bugger will lay claim to that title, I'm sure).

And conquer the seas.

I feel a song coming on...

[Worthy4England]

If we can take over some rubber plantations, we can probably double our GVA selling gimp suits to MP's

[Prufrock]

Ah, so us being able to trade freely with every country got in to difficulties once the Europeans clubbed together and started their own group?

Good job we're not going to be on the outside of anything like that then.

Because the world hasn't changed in 59 years

Yes, now we don't have a bunch of colonies to rely on.

[Worthy4England]

^^ They don't like it up 'em.

[Lord Kangana]

This discussion is getting a little silly, not least for Pru's assertion that we had colonies to rely on in 1958. The truth is that trade with the colonies had been dying a vertiginous decline and death since the early thirties.

Unfortunately, the propoganda campaign (publicity if you must) associated with vested interests engaged in colonial trade to try to stem the flow seems to have embedded itself deep into the national psyche. In tandem with the nationalistic (patriotic if you must, but you're only fooling yourself) histories of the First World War being published at the same time, effectively airbrushing from history how closely linked the nations of Europe were in 1914, we end up with the Daily Mail/Nigel Farage colouring book of Britainisbesticus history-lite. In truth, Europe is where its been at for us for the best part of a century.

Which is ironic, considering the great Nige actually went on record as stating UKIP aimed for a Britain that we had experienced 1950-2000. That'd be a Britain with ever growing ties to the continent as it distanced itself from America, a Britain with an overwhelming bias towards publicly owned and operated industry, and a Britain with a burgeoning welfare system with the highest degree of social mobility we've ever experienced. And a Britain, of course, of Blue Passports, Duty Free Fags and the Imperial system. Priorities, priorities.

[bedwetter2]

Mmm, interesting hyperbole from virtually all contributors to this little discussion.

Strangely enough my point was that the UK needed little assistance from other countries, whether allies or hapless stooges, between 1066 and 1958 and was happily independent until bankrupted by WW2 and the US. It is my belief, however laughable many of you find it, that this country is best to rely on it's own resources and ingenuity rather than fair weather friends who want to punish us for wishing to leave the european club.

Fire away, losers.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Mmm, interesting hyperbole from virtually all contributors to this little discussion.

Strangely enough my point was that the UK needed little assistance from other countries, whether allies or hapless stooges, between 1066 and 1958 and was happily independent until bankrupted by WW2 and the US. It is my belief, however laughable many of you find it, that this country is best to rely on it's own resources and ingenuity rather than fair weather friends who want to punish us for wishing to leave the european club.

Fire away, losers.

Great Britain was the dominant power in the world in the C19th because of its navy and, by extension, its colonial empire. Because it ruled the waves it could afford to waive the rules and no one could do a thing about it. Yet all this changed in WW1. We certainly needed assistance in WW2 especially from our former colonies like Australia, Canada, India, etc. After WW2 the dominant powers were the US and the Soviet Union - we had become a small player. As the Commonwealth because less important Europe seemed a good bet. I have no idea how the UK will do on its own now it is leaving the EU but it will still need good trading partners and allies - there are few hapless stooges left around.

[Lord Kangana]

Britain has been in relative economic and industrual decline (in relation to the other major world players) since the 1890's.

And they criticise the educational standards of today!

[bedwetter2]

Mmm, interesting hyperbole from virtually all contributors to this little discussion.

Strangely enough my point was that the UK needed little assistance from other countries, whether allies or hapless stooges, between 1066 and 1958 and was happily independent until bankrupted by WW2 and the US. It is my belief, however laughable many of you find it, that this country is best to rely on it's own resources and ingenuity rather than fair weather friends who want to punish us for wishing to leave the european club.

Fire away, losers.

Great Britain was the dominant power in the world in the C19th because of its navy and, by extension, its colonial empire. Because it ruled the waves it could afford to waive the rules and no one could do a thing about it. Yet all this changed in WW1. We certainly needed assistance in WW2 especially from our former colonies like Australia, Canada, India, etc. After WW2 the dominant powers were the US and the Soviet Union - we had become a small player. As the Commonwealth because less important Europe seemed a good bet. I have no idea how the UK will do on its own now it is leaving the EU but it will still need good trading partners and allies - there are few hapless stooges left around.

I was not calling trading partners hapless stooges. Far from it. The hapless stooges were parts of the Empire which had little choice but to do the bidding of the mother country.

Your analysis is correct for the historical importance of the navy in the 19th century and earlier (East India Company, etc). However, take your argument back further in time than the British Empire and Great Britain stood alone and relied very much upon it's own resources. The industrial revolution, as I'm sure you know, was the catalyst for the dominant position Britain occupied for some time.

Trade is and always has been important to this country. But that has to be fair and the more restrictions placed upon it by the EU, the less able we are to exploit opportunities in non-EU states. I must also say that as far as allies go, the US has not always played with a straight bat and I don't trust 'em now. Even with The Donald at the helm.

[Lord Kangana]

Mmm, interesting hyperbole from virtually all contributors to this little discussion.

Strangely enough my point was that the UK needed little assistance from other countries, whether allies or hapless stooges, between 1066 and 1958 and was happily independent until bankrupted by WW2 and the US. It is my belief, however laughable many of you find it, that this country is best to rely on it's own resources and ingenuity rather than fair weather friends who want to punish us for wishing to leave the european club.

Fire away, losers.

Great Britain was the dominant power in the world in the C19th because of its navy and, by extension, its colonial empire. Because it ruled the waves it could afford to waive the rules and no one could do a thing about it. Yet all this changed in WW1. We certainly needed assistance in WW2 especially from our former colonies like Australia, Canada, India, etc. After WW2 the dominant powers were the US and the Soviet Union - we had become a small player. As the Commonwealth because less important Europe seemed a good bet. I have no idea how the UK will do on its own now it is leaving the EU but it will still need good trading partners and allies - there are few hapless stooges left around.

I knew that we finally paid our debt to the US off in 2006 Monty, what I hadn't appreciated was that we also paid our debt to Canada off that year too. (I wasn't even aware that we had a debt to Canada!)

Which is a step further than our First World War debt, as we wrote that off on account of it being too big.

[bedwetter2]

Britain has been in relative economic and industrual decline (in relation to the other major world players) since the 1890's.

And they criticise the educational standards of today!

I trust your intervention was deliberately ironic.

Decline didn't really start to happen until the 1910s when the first world war had a deleterious effect on the population of working age and available resources. However, you could argue that Britain still remained a major power until the 1930s. Possibly fur coat and no knickers style.

[Worthy4England]

[bedwetter2]

Bet you had to search long and hard for that, or maybe you have a box-set which is kept on hand just in case.

[Worthy4England]

Bet you had to search long and hard for that, or maybe you have a box-set which is kept on hand just in case.

We'll introduce you to YouTube someday. It connects to outside of the UK.

[bedwetter2]

Bet you had to search long and hard for that, or maybe you have a box-set which is kept on hand just in case.

We'll introduce you to YouTube someday. It connects to outside of the UK.

Ah, so it was recorded outside the UK was it. No wonder I had not seen it before.

[Worthy4England]

Apologies, I confused with your world view.