The Politics Thread

[Harry Genshaw]

A politician stood up for his own beliefs and values without regard for his political career? Jesus. This is exactly what people don't want. Booooooo.

Isn't that exactly what Corbyn's doing? You give him abuse for it.

I don't think anyone has an issue with a politician standing up for his values, it's whether it's appropriate for the speaker to be anything less than neutral. Personally, I've no issues with it but as one of his accusers said on R2 this lunchtime - why didn't he make the same fuss when the Emir of Kuwait came over?

[Montreal Wanderer]

A politician stood up for his own beliefs and values without regard for his political career? Jesus. This is exactly what people don't want. Booooooo.

Isn't that exactly what Corbyn's doing? You give him abuse for it.

I don't think anyone has an issue with a politician standing up for his values, it's whether it's appropriate for the speaker to be anything less than neutral. Personally, I've no issues with it but as one of his accusers said on R2 this lunchtime - why didn't he make the same fuss when the Emir of Kuwait came over?

It is not about state visits, is it Harry? It's about being invited to address Parliament in Westminster Hall (and the Speaker issues this invitation). Surely the Emir of Kuwait was not invited to address Parliament in Westminster Hall, was he?

[Little Green Man]

Surely the Emir of Kuwait was not invited to address Parliament in Westminster Hall, was he?

It's an alternative fact that he was.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I was surprised yesterday, that during the latest talks around the NHS falling down around our ears (or being allowed to) there was talk that so called health tourists would now be charged for non urgent treatment. My first reaction was "You mean they don't already?" - When the care for many elderly in this country is nothing short of a national scandal - What took them?

The estimate is this costs the NHS somewhere between £100M and £280M.

The cost of social care, just on the social care non health side is upwards of £17billion annually.

So how much would it cost to tackle health tourism? You'd need whole systems in place to do it. And you'll never save the full amount anyway. Imagine someone from Australia rocking up to a hospital with a badly infected ingrowing toenail. They'd be a health tourist. Is that emergency or not? Who makes that call. Then who works out they are a "health tourist", who determines what they pay? What is the mechanism for payment? Also in such a system does that mean I have to take my passport to every outpatient appt and someone has to scan it as a record?

I think it'd be far more effective to discuss why we aren't as a country prepared to fund the NHS and social care properly. Why are we such a selfish society? That would be a better place to start than thinking that introducing more and more systems that all cost a significant amount in staff time, resources and salaries to solve a problem that is not even going to trouble the tip of a very large iceberg. Mind its popular cos nobody likes foreigners no more.

If the NHS is going to survive, and let's face it, it seems unlikely the way things are going; shouldn't we be committed to cutting waste where we can or should we ignore a £280m loss because it'd be too much trouble and we don't want to be accused of racism?

They could do something about the ridiculous PFI contracts and save themselves a few billion instead. Actually, I'm understating this. They could save many many billions over the lifetime of these contracts.

On the bit in bold, I'm absolutely fuming at the moment. I'm just back from a brief visit to the UK to see my Gran as she's been very ill and looking like not making it (she's 101 in April). She's been moved to an absolute shithole where hand rails lie on the floor leaving holes in walls, where patient alarms are not attended to for significant amounts of time, where my Gran's bedside table has dried out juice and goodness knows what else on it. She has swollen legs they haven't even noticed.

I'm absolutely fuming that one of the richest countries in the world treats it's elderly this way

[BWFC_Insane]

I was surprised yesterday, that during the latest talks around the NHS falling down around our ears (or being allowed to) there was talk that so called health tourists would now be charged for non urgent treatment. My first reaction was "You mean they don't already?" - When the care for many elderly in this country is nothing short of a national scandal - What took them?

The estimate is this costs the NHS somewhere between £100M and £280M.

The cost of social care, just on the social care non health side is upwards of £17billion annually.

So how much would it cost to tackle health tourism? You'd need whole systems in place to do it. And you'll never save the full amount anyway. Imagine someone from Australia rocking up to a hospital with a badly infected ingrowing toenail. They'd be a health tourist. Is that emergency or not? Who makes that call. Then who works out they are a "health tourist", who determines what they pay? What is the mechanism for payment? Also in such a system does that mean I have to take my passport to every outpatient appt and someone has to scan it as a record?

I think it'd be far more effective to discuss why we aren't as a country prepared to fund the NHS and social care properly. Why are we such a selfish society? That would be a better place to start than thinking that introducing more and more systems that all cost a significant amount in staff time, resources and salaries to solve a problem that is not even going to trouble the tip of a very large iceberg. Mind its popular cos nobody likes foreigners no more.

If the NHS is going to survive, and let's face it, it seems unlikely the way things are going; shouldn't we be committed to cutting waste where we can or should we ignore a £280m loss because it'd be too much trouble and we don't want to be accused of racism?

The political powers have for a long time wanted to focus on "top down rearrangements" and "cutting of waste" rather than actually dealing with the core issues. All the while the 20 years of tinkering around the edges has ended up costing the NHS more than it saved, plus the ever coming time bomb of the rising funding gap continues to tick down.

But by all means lets invest energy in a minor issue once again because it suits the right wing, anti-foreigner, Daily Mail peddled agenda, rather than actually for once looking properly at the NHS issue as a whole piece, with actual facts and data and understanding what we are prepared to and able to fund, and what we aren't.

[Harry Genshaw]

A politician stood up for his own beliefs and values without regard for his political career? Jesus. This is exactly what people don't want. Booooooo.

Isn't that exactly what Corbyn's doing? You give him abuse for it.

I don't think anyone has an issue with a politician standing up for his values, it's whether it's appropriate for the speaker to be anything less than neutral. Personally, I've no issues with it but as one of his accusers said on R2 this lunchtime - why didn't he make the same fuss when the Emir of Kuwait came over?

It is not about state visits, is it Harry? It's about being invited to address Parliament in Westminster Hall (and the Speaker issues this invitation). Surely the Emir of Kuwait was not invited to address Parliament in Westminster Hall, was he?

Well that's initially what I thought but then there was talk today that he may not even come to England but just call in on Scotland. I'd be amazed if the Emir of Kuwait addressed parliament but the suggestion was he had met Bercow and his record on human rights and women's rights probably trumps Trump. Bercow (& his wife ) have always been pretty controversial

[BWFC_Insane]

A politician stood up for his own beliefs and values without regard for his political career? Jesus. This is exactly what people don't want. Booooooo.

Isn't that exactly what Corbyn's doing? You give him abuse for it.

I give Corbyn abuse for incompetence.

And Corbyn isn't standing up for his own beliefs and values without regard for his political career.

So Jezza, you were once very openly anti-EU, do you now think we should remain?

Jezza: Errr yes

So how much out of ten do you believe in Britain remaining in the EU

Jezza: Errrmmm well, I'd say about seven, seven out of ten

[Lord Kangana]

A politician stood up for his own beliefs and values without regard for his political career? Jesus. This is exactly what people don't want. Booooooo.

Isn't that exactly what Corbyn's doing? You give him abuse for it.

I don't think anyone has an issue with a politician standing up for his values, it's whether it's appropriate for the speaker to be anything less than neutral. Personally, I've no issues with it but as one of his accusers said on R2 this lunchtime - why didn't he make the same fuss when the Emir of Kuwait came over?

It is not about state visits, is it Harry? It's about being invited to address Parliament in Westminster Hall (and the Speaker issues this invitation). Surely the Emir of Kuwait was not invited to address Parliament in Westminster Hall, was he?

Well that's initially what I thought but then there was talk today that he may not even come to England but just call in on Scotland. I'd be amazed if the Emir of Kuwait addressed parliament but the suggestion was he had met Bercow and his record on human rights and women's rights probably trumps Trump. Bercow (& his wife ) have always been pretty controversial

I don't wish to get all schoolyard here, but surely the Emir of Kuwait isn't setting the bar for how bad you can be to get an audience is he?

Two wrongs and all that, I'm glad we've finally drawn a line somehwere rather than just flouncing that we've always let despots be despots.

[Harry Genshaw]

A politician stood up for his own beliefs and values without regard for his political career? Jesus. This is exactly what people don't want. Booooooo.

Isn't that exactly what Corbyn's doing? You give him abuse for it.

I give Corbyn abuse for incompetence.

And Corbyn isn't standing up for his own beliefs and values without regard for his political career.

So Jezza, you were once very openly anti-EU, do you now think we should remain?

Jezza: Errr yes

So how much out of ten do you believe in Britain remaining in the EU

Jezza: Errrmmm well, I'd say about seven, seven out of ten

I don't understand your ire with Corbyn on this one.

You're referring to his interview on The last leg, when he said he hadn't supported Britain remaining in the EU in the past. He said whilst he still had reservations about the EU he was now of the opinion that it was better that we were in than out. When asked how big of a supporter he was out of ten, he said about a 7.

What's the big deal here?

[BWFC_Insane]

A politician stood up for his own beliefs and values without regard for his political career? Jesus. This is exactly what people don't want. Booooooo.

Isn't that exactly what Corbyn's doing? You give him abuse for it.

I give Corbyn abuse for incompetence.

And Corbyn isn't standing up for his own beliefs and values without regard for his political career.

So Jezza, you were once very openly anti-EU, do you now think we should remain?

Jezza: Errr yes

So how much out of ten do you believe in Britain remaining in the EU

Jezza: Errrmmm well, I'd say about seven, seven out of ten

I don't understand your ire with Corbyn on this one.

You're referring to his interview on The last leg, when he said he hadn't supported Britain remaining in the EU in the past. He said whilst he still had reservations about the EU he was now of the opinion that it was better that we were in than out. When asked how big of a supporter he was out of ten, he said about a 7.

What's the big deal here?

He never believed we should remain. That much is plainly obvious.

But he knew it would be political suicide if he joined the leave campaign.

As soon as we came out his actions have been about ensuring Labour MPs don't block the exit. Blokes a fraud. And incompetent.

[Harry Genshaw]

^ nah I'm not having that. He gave an honest answer to the question. Like lots of us he wasn't black and white on the EU, he weighed up the evidence and changed his earlier opinion (like any good politician should do) but admitted he still had reservations. His actions now, like it or not, are about ensuring the will of the people is carried out.

[BWFC_Insane]

^ nah I'm not having that. He gave an honest answer to the question. Like lots of us he wasn't black and white on the EU, he weighed up the evidence and changed his earlier opinion (like any good politician should do) but admitted he still had reservations. His actions now, like it or not, are about ensuring the will of the people is carried out.

Oh please. You go from a hardline anti EU position to 'let's stay in the EU sort of if I can be bothered' to 'imposing whip on Labour MPs who try and block bill even if we get zero amendments'

To suggest anything other than that was Corbyn playing the political game like everyone else is total and utter bollocks.

Mans a fraud. And incompetent. Both irrefutable facts.

That is before we get onto train gate and good old honest Jezza...

[Lord Kangana]

This will of the people thing. Do 16m people not class as people in this country now, or do you mean the will of a small majority?

[Worthy4England]

This will of the people thing. Do 16m people not class as people in this country now, or do you mean the will of a small majority?

Just to correct you there sir, if I may.

There were 46.5m voters at the time of the referendum and a total population of 66?m(ish) - could be closer to 90m(ish) if some of the immigration numbers being bandied about at the time were used.

According to Parliament website, the function of Parliament is

Parliament is there to represent our interests and make sure they are taken into account by the Government. The Government cannot make new laws or raise new taxes without Parliament’s agreement.

https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/rol ... overnment/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It doesn't mention exclusively the winning side in a legally non-binding X-Factor vote-off.

[Lord Kangana]

Its almost as if the Leave campaign and Remain campaigns were headed up by the same party who are desperately trying to fend off UKIP maybe?

[Bruce Rioja]

A politician stood up for his own beliefs and values without regard for his political career? Jesus. This is exactly what people don't want. Booooooo.

Isn't that exactly what Corbyn's doing? You give him abuse for it.

I give Corbyn abuse for incompetence.

And Corbyn isn't standing up for his own beliefs and values without regard for his political career.

So Jezza, you were once very openly anti-EU, do you now think we should remain?

Jezza: Errr yes

So how much out of ten do you believe in Britain remaining in the EU

Jezza: Errrmmm well, I'd say about seven, seven out of ten

How can Labour possibly not win the Oldham by-election by a huge majority? Corbyn has re-engaged a tidal wave of disenfranchised lefties and is leading a brave new political revolution

[BWFC_Insane]

A politician stood up for his own beliefs and values without regard for his political career? Jesus. This is exactly what people don't want. Booooooo.

Isn't that exactly what Corbyn's doing? You give him abuse for it.

I give Corbyn abuse for incompetence.

And Corbyn isn't standing up for his own beliefs and values without regard for his political career.

So Jezza, you were once very openly anti-EU, do you now think we should remain?

Jezza: Errr yes

So how much out of ten do you believe in Britain remaining in the EU

Jezza: Errrmmm well, I'd say about seven, seven out of ten

How can Labour possibly not win the Oldham by-election by a huge majority? Corbyn has re-engaged a tidal wave of disenfranchised lefties and is leading a brave new political revolution

What point are you making?

The post you have quoted I am sarcastically mocking the notion that some Corbyn supporters have that he has started a mass political revolution and will win the next election. Nothing more than that.

[Harry Genshaw]

This will of the people thing. Do 16m people not class as people in this country now, or do you mean the will of a small majority?

Not my thoughts fella. Just repeating the mantra. In a straight two way fight at least the majority in this vote won, unlike every general election we've ever had. But yeah, still umpteen million people pi55ed off either way

[bedwetter2]

I was surprised yesterday, that during the latest talks around the NHS falling down around our ears (or being allowed to) there was talk that so called health tourists would now be charged for non urgent treatment. My first reaction was "You mean they don't already?" - When the care for many elderly in this country is nothing short of a national scandal - What took them?

The estimate is this costs the NHS somewhere between £100M and £280M.

The cost of social care, just on the social care non health side is upwards of £17billion annually.

So how much would it cost to tackle health tourism? You'd need whole systems in place to do it. And you'll never save the full amount anyway. Imagine someone from Australia rocking up to a hospital with a badly infected ingrowing toenail. They'd be a health tourist. Is that emergency or not? Who makes that call. Then who works out they are a "health tourist", who determines what they pay? What is the mechanism for payment? Also in such a system does that mean I have to take my passport to every outpatient appt and someone has to scan it as a record?

I think it'd be far more effective to discuss why we aren't as a country prepared to fund the NHS and social care properly. Why are we such a selfish society? That would be a better place to start than thinking that introducing more and more systems that all cost a significant amount in staff time, resources and salaries to solve a problem that is not even going to trouble the tip of a very large iceberg. Mind its popular cos nobody likes foreigners no more.

The Sunday Times were quoting the cost to the NHS as more like £600m per annum. Either way, it is part of the financial pressure on the healthcare system and, as such, should be eliminated.

As to the cost of tackling health tourism, everyone from anywhere presenting for treatment of any kind is allocated an NHS hospital number because a record must be kept of treatments provided. This applies to all irrespective of where they come from. A marker on the patient record to denote non-citizen of the UK would easily track that treatment. It has also been suggested that compulsory health insurance should be a pre-requisite for any visitor to the UK. As is the case in continental european countries, treatment could only proceed when evidence of such insurance or the production of a credit/debit card was given. Simples.

One of the few examples of where some EU countries have got it right.

[bedwetter2]

A politician stood up for his own beliefs and values without regard for his political career? Jesus. This is exactly what people don't want. Booooooo.

Isn't that exactly what Corbyn's doing? You give him abuse for it.

I don't think anyone has an issue with a politician standing up for his values, it's whether it's appropriate for the speaker to be anything less than neutral. Personally, I've no issues with it but as one of his accusers said on R2 this lunchtime - why didn't he make the same fuss when the Emir of Kuwait came over?

It is not about state visits, is it Harry? It's about being invited to address Parliament in Westminster Hall (and the Speaker issues this invitation). Surely the Emir of Kuwait was not invited to address Parliament in Westminster Hall, was he?

The more pertinent case is that for the state visit of the Chinese Premier, One Hung Lo, or whatever his name is. He was accorded the privilege of addressing Parliament.

And yet.....when a British PM has visited China in the past, all the lefties and human rights people (Phil Shiner anyone?) have urged the PM to bring up human rights or the lack of them in China with the Communist Party leadership whilst hiding behind their sofa in the knowledge that if it all kicks off big time they won't be in the firing line. Cowards, the lot of them. If they really are committed to their cause why don't they go and demonstrate in force in Tiananmen Square instead of demonstrating against a democratically elected President in Washington and elsewhere?

You and I know the reason for that, I'm sure.