The Politics Thread

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Who will you be voting for?

Labour
11
38%
Conservatives
11
38%
Liberal Democrats
2
7%
UK Independence Party (UKIP)
0
No votes
Green Party
3
10%
Plaid Cymru
0
No votes
Other
1
3%
Planet Hobo
1
3%
 
Total votes: 29

Worthy4England
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:54 pm

Where the fcuk has strong and stable gone? That's what I voted for. Not certainty...

How tightly did the DUP squeeze her balls to get her to read that shite out?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:56 pm

Lord Kangana wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:46 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:45 am
I wonder who UKIP's new leader will be... :roll:
F*cking Farage is circling again. Better the devil you know.
Farage was circling at 03:00 this morning...place your bets...

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Armchair Wanderer » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:08 pm

Corbyn... all he has to do is get the big-hitters back in the shadow cabinet, imho. He's not going anywhere.

Finally, my faith is returning in the British public :pissed:
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Dr Hotdog » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:34 pm

Since Neil Armstrong took one small step in 1969, Labour has polled 40%(or more) of the total share of the vote four times. 1970 (Wilson, loss) 1997 (Blair, win), 2001 (Blair, win) & 2017. Truly remarkable from Corbyn, which ever way you want to slice it.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by boltonboris » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:43 pm

Armchair Wanderer wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:08 pm
Corbyn... all he has to do is get the big-hitters back in the shadow cabinet, imho.
They'll be all over him now. Crawling over eachother to pat him on the back so they don't look like utter wankers to this new movement of young voters
"I've got the ball now. It's a bit worn, but I've got it"

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Prufrock » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:07 pm

He lost! The benefit of setting spectacularly low expectations.

Labour increase in share seend to have come from two places: young metropolitans (for which Corbyn gets credit, but not many additional seats) and the collapse of the UKIP vote (for which he gets no credit). If we had PR, he might have a chance of ever winning, but he still lost Gordon-Brown badly to the worst Tory leader since IDS running the worst campaign in living memory. A centrist Labour leader would be PM today (assuming there'd still been an election, which there wouldn't have been).
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by freeindeed » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:17 pm

Prufrock wrote: "You keep talking about a shift, about doing something different, well last-time round we elected the most left-wing candidate on the leadership ballot. Voting in Corbyn isn't a shift, it's repeating the mistakes of 83 onwards in assuming that the sort of people who paid to join the Labour party are fairly representative of the general population with regards to how much they like Labour!"

"You seem somehow to genuinely believe Jezza can win, so I'm not including you, but loads of this lot happily admit he can't. In order to make themselves feel better about chucking the poor under the bus for the next ten years"

"Corbyn's candidacy was supposed to widen debate and its done nothing but narrow it."

"As it is, Kendall is to the right of me, and Corbyn to the left, probably by similar distances. But one has a chance of putting into practice the bits I agree with her on, the other doesn't."

"I'm calling it now: In five years' time we'll be being told that the reason we lost in 2020 was that Jeremy Corbyn in fact wasn't left-wing enough, and if we really want to connect with the electorate with a "clear message" then we need to re-animate the corpse of Karl Marx."

"but to criticise him as being unelectable is totally fair game: that's a policy based argument. I, and no supporter of any of the other three I've seen, have suggested that Corbyn isn't "really" a Labour member, or that he should piss off and join the Trade Union and Socialist Workers Party."
Etc Etc Etc. Insightful or simply chattin shit? I think it's quite clear!


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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Prufrock » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:24 pm

You do know he lost?
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:38 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:07 pm
He lost! The benefit of setting spectacularly low expectations.

Labour increase in share seend to have come from two places: young metropolitans (for which Corbyn gets credit, but not many additional seats) and the collapse of the UKIP vote (for which he gets no credit). If we had PR, he might have a chance of ever winning, but he still lost Gordon-Brown badly to the worst Tory leader since IDS running the worst campaign in living memory. A centrist Labour leader would be PM today (assuming there'd still been an election, which there wouldn't have been).
I get your point but I'm not sure. Corbyn connected with the yoof, connected with some UKIP voters who presumably saw him as the change candidate.

Would a centrist candidate have done that? I agree that Corbyn is unelectable, but he's proven that a leftist mandate can still win. You can win with less than 41%. It just needs someone who can appeal to the older generation...I'd say if Corbyn wasn't seen as a friend to Hamas and the IRA he may have had the largest party today.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by TANGODANCER » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:01 pm

Special mention here for that man of the people, ex heavyweight champion of champagne lunches and Carribean holidays, good old David Cameron, (still strutting about with armed guards?) who ran off like a frightened rabbit from his positon as leader during the Brexit campaign. Had he stayed, depite his failings, accepted the result and shown some leadership balls.....
The wisest and the best of men, nay, the wisest and best of their actions, may be rendered ridiculous by a person whose first object in life is a joke...Darcy. Pride and Prejudice.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Prufrock » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:02 pm

He certainly seems to have connected with the youth which I didn't think he would, but as we all said at the time, the areas he has and will get that kind of purchase are urban areas which already vote Labour. The result in Bristol west for example was genuinely impressive, but didn't gain a seat.

I've always been in favour of some sort of proportional or preferential voting system and in that you could make a case for him leaving a socialist party and there being a centrist social democratic party too. But he cannot win under FPTP. There's absolutely no way older voters were win round by him. The Tories underestimated the collective memory of former Labour voters who had gone UKIP but couldn't stomach going Tory. Any leader under the Labour flag would have done at least as well. Meanwhile middle England recoils.

I can't see how the campaign could have gone any better for Corbyn. Dreadful May, made it presidential then hid from debate, managed to get the right wing press het up about a dementia tax, the left about school meals. Parroted strong and stable whilst uturning left right and centre. All the time treating the population with disdain over Brexit. Meanwhile Corbyn campaigned well and had no major misstep. Despite all that he lost comfortably by 50 seats.
In a world that has decided
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Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by freeindeed » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:24 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:24 pm
You do know he lost?
Very sharp.

He has made history by securing Labours greatest increasd in vote share since 1945.

He has bucked the enormously significant trend of Rupert Murdoch correctly endorsing the prime minister since taking over the sun in 1969.

In his campaign he drew the biggest crowds since Churchill in 1945.

The highest youth participation for 25 years.

The largest comeback from a large negative poll rating ever.

1 lame duck prime minister - gone within the year.

All achieved with a treacherous Blairite plp that tried to oust him from day 1. From his current position of great strength and with a coming united plp. He will be prime minister within 5 years.

Peace out.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Armchair Wanderer » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:30 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:43 pm
Armchair Wanderer wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:08 pm
Corbyn... all he has to do is get the big-hitters back in the shadow cabinet, imho.
They'll be all over him now. Crawling over eachother to pat him on the back so they don't look like utter wankers to this new movement of young voters
Miliband and Corbyn are/were a backlash after Blair/Brown. Like Prufrock was saying, he lost. I don't know if the people that voted this time would still vote for Labour if it was a bit more in the middle. I would. Never wanted him as leader, wasn't convinced by him as leader, wish he wouldn't defend some of the stuff he's defended, but... with Chuka et al in the shadow cabinet he's got a chance next time.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lord Kangana » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:37 pm

Biggest vote for Labour since Attlee? Did I hear that right?

He's still getting the brickbats, but fair play to the lad if that's true. Some achievement. Bearing in mind that he wasn't given a cat in hells chance only a few weeks ago. Its all about the schwing.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lord Kangana » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:43 pm

And just to check here, but didn't Labour take 27 seats off the Tories? That's hardly stealing seats off UKIP is it? And I don't buy that angle anyway. The youth vote is intrinsically linked to anti-Brexit sentiment. I think large amounts of it went to Labour because they didn't talk about the EU negotiations like completely obnoxious shit heads. Which the Tories did.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:05 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:01 pm
Special mention here for that man of the people, ex heavyweight champion of champagne lunches and Carribean holidays, good old David Cameron, (still strutting about with armed guards?) who ran off like a frightened rabbit from his positon as leader during the Brexit campaign. Had he stayed, depite his failings, accepted the result and shown some leadership balls.....
What are you rambling at TD? He accepted the result and showed some leadership balls by resigning...

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:30 pm

I'm delighted to see our new firm approach to terrorism, recently announced. Let a party steeped in it have the casting votes. You couldn't make it up.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:40 pm

freeindeed wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:24 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:24 pm
You do know he lost?
Very sharp.

He has made history by securing Labours greatest increasd in vote share since 1945.

He has bucked the enormously significant trend of Rupert Murdoch correctly endorsing the prime minister since taking over the sun in 1969.

In his campaign he drew the biggest crowds since Churchill in 1945.

The highest youth participation for 25 years.

The largest comeback from a large negative poll rating ever.

1 lame duck prime minister - gone within the year.

All achieved with a treacherous Blairite plp that tried to oust him from day 1. From his current position of great strength and with a coming united plp. He will be prime minister within 5 years.

Peace out.
May is still PM.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by bedwetter2 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:53 pm

There is an awful lot of guesswork going on here, which I suppose also reflects the bewilderment of the MSM.

It is clear that the published manifestos did have some effect both on the elderly vote and the younger student types. May screwed up the Conservatives with their manifesto which seemed only to offer more of the same hairshirt policies with further twists of the knife. She was ill-advised not to take counsel from rather more experienced types than her gruesome twosome Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill rather than hide the contents of the manifesto from most of her cabinet.

Corbyn offered straight forward bribes which would never have been affordable in a million years. But he did convince enough students on the loans and probably some elderly waiting for the onset of Alzheimers.

More worrying for people like me was the clear statement that the public sector should get significant wage increases, payable by the private sector, of course. Many of whom have not had any increase in income since 2009. That, coupled with major increases in corporation tax which would have the effect of driving many multi-national companies elsewhere, gave a worrying glimpse of the future under Corbyn and both his right-hand man and his handmaiden. Ugh.

A friend of mine, a life-long Labour voter (public sector breeds them) said even he was worried about a knock on his front door in the middle of the night, spirited away never to be seen again. Communists only have one way of dealing with dissent.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Bruce Rioja » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:05 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:40 pm
May is still PM.
For now, however, she's to arrogant to realise that her position's untenable.

Yesterday's GE was one huge slap in the face for the arrogance and high-handedness of both May and Sturgeon, yet both are too stubborn to budge.
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