The Politics Thread

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Who will you be voting for?

Labour
13
41%
Conservatives
12
38%
Liberal Democrats
2
6%
UK Independence Party (UKIP)
0
No votes
Green Party
3
9%
Plaid Cymru
0
No votes
Other
1
3%
Planet Hobo
1
3%
 
Total votes: 32

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:00 pm

Ahhh. Thanks for the clarification, Pru.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Aanvalluh » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:10 am

I'll hold my hands up and admit I got it wrong. Thought, basically, we would get some cash to assist the NHS, that's clearly not going to happen, and what I voted for is tearing the country apart - in 2015 we had a , erm, strong and stable government, now we are goverened by a dozen loopy-tunes from Northern Ireland. Oh, we were also told we wouldn't need Visas to go on our hols...that's looking iffy now too.
Immigration didn't bother me, all that would happen is the EU's would be replaced by commonwealths to fill in the gaps, and if numbers came "down" I wouldn't trust them to be correct, politicians lie and lie through their back teeth.
I suppose if May said "there IS £300m/wk and we will spend it on care for the elderly" then I would be a lot happier but there's more chance of me getting a game for England.
Anyone else on here feel it's simply not worth the hassle of the next two years when there are far more urgent things to attend to? Like getting coppers back on the beat??

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lord Kangana » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:18 am

I've always felt that way. But then I always thought that a simplistic leave/remain vote was perhaps the singularly most stupid question to pose.

Lets be clear, the question was so ambiguously vague as to unite sellers of socialist worker and the fascist of UKIP and the BNP. It's hardly going to be easy to maintain that coalition when the dust settles, is it?
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:19 am

You just know that immigration figures will become like employment figures. Certain groups will be moved to a different column in the spreadsheet and hey looky, immigration is down :oyea:

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Aanvalluh » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:42 am

Lord Kangana wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:18 am
I've always felt that way. But then I always thought that a simplistic leave/remain vote was perhaps the singularly most stupid question to pose.

Lets be clear, the question was so ambiguously vague as to unite sellers of socialist worker and the fascist of UKIP and the BNP. It's hardly going to be easy to maintain that coalition when the dust settles, is it?
Hindsight's wonderful, but at the time I wanted a third option, dunno how to put it but the "half in/half out" like Norway (??) or even a "want to leave but not sure, can we try again in 10 years" just in case the EU reformed. I keep reading about hard, soft, even open Brexits. I want MY Brexit, and if I don't get it then I won't be getting another vote to say this isn't what I wanted, which is exactly the point you make.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:44 am

Aanvalluh wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:10 am
I'll hold my hands up and admit I got it wrong. Thought, basically, we would get some cash to assist the NHS, that's clearly not going to happen, and what I voted for is tearing the country apart - in 2015 we had a , erm, strong and stable government, now we are goverened by a dozen loopy-tunes from Northern Ireland. Oh, we were also told we wouldn't need Visas to go on our hols...that's looking iffy now too.
Immigration didn't bother me, all that would happen is the EU's would be replaced by commonwealths to fill in the gaps, and if numbers came "down" I wouldn't trust them to be correct, politicians lie and lie through their back teeth.
I suppose if May said "there IS £300m/wk and we will spend it on care for the elderly" then I would be a lot happier but there's more chance of me getting a game for England.
Anyone else on here feel it's simply not worth the hassle of the next two years when there are far more urgent things to attend to? Like getting coppers back on the beat??
That is the mid-point that was never found during the campaign. Such debates are increasingly polarised by fanatics on both sides. Leave centred around the imaginary notion of being able to control our own laws - as though we couldn't already. Remain centred around threats of doom if we left. The trouble is that when you polarise things in that way, you often get the result you don't ideally want.

A good Brexit deal (if one ever existed) is probably undeliverable now. Even the hardline Tory Brexiteers seem to be rowing back on the idea that we hold all the cards.

The EU has us over a barrel. Reality is that they always did. The only way forward is for positive negotiations where we offer them what they want and they do the same in return. Certainly we won't get anywhere with the previous bluster and threat approach used...that is entirely the wrong way to negotiate...everyone who negotiates knows that.

The hope for me is that the Tories include all parties in their Brexit negotiating team. We certainly need broader representation. Again even some fairly right wing Tories have raised this as an idea.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Aanvalluh » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:48 am

Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:19 am
You just know that immigration figures will become like employment figures. Certain groups will be moved to a different column in the spreadsheet and hey looky, immigration is down :oyea:
For a start I think students were removed from the immigration stats??
But thinking about it, you could stop a single Poland guy form coming because he hasn't the qualification, but an Indian or Thai can come in because he has, and then he brings his wife and five kids. It's all meaningless, isn't it?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Aanvalluh » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:58 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:44 am
Aanvalluh wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:10 am
I'll hold my hands up and admit I got it wrong. Thought, basically, we would get some cash to assist the NHS, that's clearly not going to happen, and what I voted for is tearing the country apart - in 2015 we had a , erm, strong and stable government, now we are goverened by a dozen loopy-tunes from Northern Ireland. Oh, we were also told we wouldn't need Visas to go on our hols...that's looking iffy now too.
Immigration didn't bother me, all that would happen is the EU's would be replaced by commonwealths to fill in the gaps, and if numbers came "down" I wouldn't trust them to be correct, politicians lie and lie through their back teeth.
I suppose if May said "there IS £300m/wk and we will spend it on care for the elderly" then I would be a lot happier but there's more chance of me getting a game for England.
Anyone else on here feel it's simply not worth the hassle of the next two years when there are far more urgent things to attend to? Like getting coppers back on the beat??
That is the mid-point that was never found during the campaign. Such debates are increasingly polarised by fanatics on both sides. Leave centred around the imaginary notion of being able to control our own laws - as though we couldn't already. Remain centred around threats of doom if we left. The trouble is that when you polarise things in that way, you often get the result you don't ideally want.

A good Brexit deal (if one ever existed) is probably undeliverable now. Even the hardline Tory Brexiteers seem to be rowing back on the idea that we hold all the cards.

The EU has us over a barrel. Reality is that they always did. The only way forward is for positive negotiations where we offer them what they want and they do the same in return. Certainly we won't get anywhere with the previous bluster and threat approach used...that is entirely the wrong way to negotiate...everyone who negotiates knows that.

The hope for me is that the Tories include all parties in their Brexit negotiating team. We certainly need broader representation. Again even some fairly right wing Tories have raised this as an idea.
A wise piece if I may say.
Your are right about the extremists, I never liked Farage, and never liked Junker (sp?) and the whole point about being a Brit is our ability to compromise. Maybe this election was telling everyone to compromise. I voted labour. Point taken?
But the path is now for both sides to get something we can all agree on. For me - if I can carry on going on my hols with just my passport, that health card and airlines not being charged extra (and adding to my bill) and the compo we get for delays - if all that stays, the politicians can do what they like. Reckon there are far more of us travelling than there are bankers worries about £££'s and there are more of us queuing for a job or waiting for a hospital bed too.
I think they key must be making sure Brits have jobs and although I don't think a points system's the answer, I do think a Brit first, EU second then rest third system could be agreed on, probably through gritted teeth (!) and also a "no benefits to foriegners until they have earned it" would make me happy. Of course the same applies to us going there, and I would feel sorry for our kids who couldn't get their dream job in the EU - which is also why I a have a concience.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:44 pm

I don't see an "outcome" that everyone will agree on...or even a split much better than 51.8%/48.2%...

Our position has always been - we want Free Trade and zero Free Movement. Their position has always been Free Trade and Free Movement are linked inextricably - that's a political position rather than an economic one, but was a principle before we even joined the Club in the 70's. The minute they step away from that, they have a problem (whether we agree it's a good idea or not) so they're probably not going to. The Brexiteers have always pitched we can have our position at no cost and minimal impact to UK businesses - so I'll be delighted when they deliver it.

Immigration we've had various "it'll get to be lower than 100k" pitches over 7 years. Despite being in control of over 50% of it, we're nowhere near and no one has yet come up with a credible plan to show if it does drop to 100k who we're going to get the shit jobs that no bugger wants to do, delivered by. We had 31.5m people in jobs to Mar 2016 (ONS statistics) with 3.3m of them non-UK nationals (10.47%)...Mar 2017 we had 31.9m people in jobs with 3.5m of them non-UK nationals (10.97%) - we have 1.6 and 1.5m people allegedly unemployed at the same dates. So we're still going to need 50%-60% of them, even if you assumed all our unemployed took a job that someone else had...I don't think it's a stretch to assume that a reasonable proportion of our unemployed won't work - so someone explain to me how immigration drops to 100k because I don't understand how that's going to happen - without destroying services or limiting growth.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Aanvalluh » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:57 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:44 pm
I don't see an "outcome" that everyone will agree on...or even a split much better than 51.8%/48.2%...

Our position has always been - we want Free Trade and zero Free Movement. Their position has always been Free Trade and Free Movement are linked inextricably - that's a political position rather than an economic one, but was a principle before we even joined the Club in the 70's. The minute they step away from that, they have a problem (whether we agree it's a good idea or not) so they're probably not going to. The Brexiteers have always pitched we can have our position at no cost and minimal impact to UK businesses - so I'll be delighted when they deliver it.

Immigration we've had various "it'll get to be lower than 100k" pitches over 7 years. Despite being in control of over 50% of it, we're nowhere near and no one has yet come up with a credible plan to show if it does drop to 100k who we're going to get the shit jobs that no bugger wants to do, delivered by. We had 31.5m people in jobs to Mar 2016 (ONS statistics) with 3.3m of them non-UK nationals (10.47%)...Mar 2017 we had 31.9m people in jobs with 3.5m of them non-UK nationals (10.97%) - we have 1.6 and 1.5m people allegedly unemployed at the same dates. So we're still going to need 50%-60% of them, even if you assumed all our unemployed took a job that someone else had...I don't think it's a stretch to assume that a reasonable proportion of our unemployed won't work - so someone explain to me how immigration drops to 100k because I don't understand how that's going to happen - without destroying services or limiting growth.
I think we'll end up begging for immigrants - didn't a survey yesterday show no-one wants to come and nurse? If that's true the "immigration control" stuff was/is a red herring - the "control" might be "HELP, WE'RE EMPTY!!" Of course we could train up more of our own - for anything - but look at doctors and nurses, teachers, cops etc; once trained why would they stay here when conditions and pay is better in Canada, Australia etc? I know for a fact that the Canadians are crying out for carers (look on their immigration website) and if I were younger that would be an option I would consider. They probably want teachers too.

Before the GE I was happy to let the politicians get on with it on the assumption they know what they're doing. Unfortunately I was wrong, the election and campaign proves they haven't a frigging clue what they are doing. Owen Coyle could have done a better job....

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:04 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:44 pm
I don't see an "outcome" that everyone will agree on...or even a split much better than 51.8%/48.2%...

Our position has always been - we want Free Trade and zero Free Movement. Their position has always been Free Trade and Free Movement are linked inextricably - that's a political position rather than an economic one, but was a principle before we even joined the Club in the 70's. The minute they step away from that, they have a problem (whether we agree it's a good idea or not) so they're probably not going to. The Brexiteers have always pitched we can have our position at no cost and minimal impact to UK businesses - so I'll be delighted when they deliver it.

Immigration we've had various "it'll get to be lower than 100k" pitches over 7 years. Despite being in control of over 50% of it, we're nowhere near and no one has yet come up with a credible plan to show if it does drop to 100k who we're going to get the shit jobs that no bugger wants to do, delivered by. We had 31.5m people in jobs to Mar 2016 (ONS statistics) with 3.3m of them non-UK nationals (10.47%)...Mar 2017 we had 31.9m people in jobs with 3.5m of them non-UK nationals (10.97%) - we have 1.6 and 1.5m people allegedly unemployed at the same dates. So we're still going to need 50%-60% of them, even if you assumed all our unemployed took a job that someone else had...I don't think it's a stretch to assume that a reasonable proportion of our unemployed won't work - so someone explain to me how immigration drops to 100k because I don't understand how that's going to happen - without destroying services or limiting growth.
See whilst at the time the feeling was immigration was the biggest issue, I wonder whether perhaps the EU became a proxy for the country being in the shit and many people enduring shit lives. And that rather than blame successive right wing, governments who propped up the free market and had no answer when the private sector failed to deliver, they blamed immigrants and the EU. Perhaps even without free movement the EU would have taken that blame, the emphasis would have just been more on finance or sovereignty.

I wonder if those people are gradually realising that the answer to their problems doesn't lie at the end of a Brexit coloured rainbow. It is going to be a fascinating few years. Most of the standard political rules have been ripped apart. I think the Tory "eurosceptics" have started shitting themselves realising they have to deliver this with a minority, unpopular government and very little in the way of widespread public support for many of the simultaneous measures they felt went alongside the process.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:10 pm

We have until end March 2019 as it stands. We're heading up to half way through June 2017 having been derailed by an election no one really needed and I think even the most ardent Brexiteer would agree we've just weakened our negotiating hand. 21 months left until the land of milk and honey is reached. Can't wait.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:14 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:04 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:44 pm
I don't see an "outcome" that everyone will agree on...or even a split much better than 51.8%/48.2%...

Our position has always been - we want Free Trade and zero Free Movement. Their position has always been Free Trade and Free Movement are linked inextricably - that's a political position rather than an economic one, but was a principle before we even joined the Club in the 70's. The minute they step away from that, they have a problem (whether we agree it's a good idea or not) so they're probably not going to. The Brexiteers have always pitched we can have our position at no cost and minimal impact to UK businesses - so I'll be delighted when they deliver it.

Immigration we've had various "it'll get to be lower than 100k" pitches over 7 years. Despite being in control of over 50% of it, we're nowhere near and no one has yet come up with a credible plan to show if it does drop to 100k who we're going to get the shit jobs that no bugger wants to do, delivered by. We had 31.5m people in jobs to Mar 2016 (ONS statistics) with 3.3m of them non-UK nationals (10.47%)...Mar 2017 we had 31.9m people in jobs with 3.5m of them non-UK nationals (10.97%) - we have 1.6 and 1.5m people allegedly unemployed at the same dates. So we're still going to need 50%-60% of them, even if you assumed all our unemployed took a job that someone else had...I don't think it's a stretch to assume that a reasonable proportion of our unemployed won't work - so someone explain to me how immigration drops to 100k because I don't understand how that's going to happen - without destroying services or limiting growth.
See whilst at the time the feeling was immigration was the biggest issue, I wonder whether perhaps the EU became a proxy for the country being in the shit and many people enduring shit lives. And that rather than blame successive right wing, governments who propped up the free market and had no answer when the private sector failed to deliver, they blamed immigrants and the EU. Perhaps even without free movement the EU would have taken that blame, the emphasis would have just been more on finance or sovereignty.

I wonder if those people are gradually realising that the answer to their problems doesn't lie at the end of a Brexit coloured rainbow. It is going to be a fascinating few years. Most of the standard political rules have been ripped apart. I think the Tory "eurosceptics" have started shitting themselves realising they have to deliver this with a minority, unpopular government and very little in the way of widespread public support for many of the simultaneous measures they felt went alongside the process.
I'd have preferred them to get a bigger majority to be honest - to be clear who was in charge.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Aanvalluh » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:20 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:04 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:44 pm
I don't see an "outcome" that everyone will agree on...or even a split much better than 51.8%/48.2%...

Our position has always been - we want Free Trade and zero Free Movement. Their position has always been Free Trade and Free Movement are linked inextricably - that's a political position rather than an economic one, but was a principle before we even joined the Club in the 70's. The minute they step away from that, they have a problem (whether we agree it's a good idea or not) so they're probably not going to. The Brexiteers have always pitched we can have our position at no cost and minimal impact to UK businesses - so I'll be delighted when they deliver it.

Immigration we've had various "it'll get to be lower than 100k" pitches over 7 years. Despite being in control of over 50% of it, we're nowhere near and no one has yet come up with a credible plan to show if it does drop to 100k who we're going to get the shit jobs that no bugger wants to do, delivered by. We had 31.5m people in jobs to Mar 2016 (ONS statistics) with 3.3m of them non-UK nationals (10.47%)...Mar 2017 we had 31.9m people in jobs with 3.5m of them non-UK nationals (10.97%) - we have 1.6 and 1.5m people allegedly unemployed at the same dates. So we're still going to need 50%-60% of them, even if you assumed all our unemployed took a job that someone else had...I don't think it's a stretch to assume that a reasonable proportion of our unemployed won't work - so someone explain to me how immigration drops to 100k because I don't understand how that's going to happen - without destroying services or limiting growth.
See whilst at the time the feeling was immigration was the biggest issue, I wonder whether perhaps the EU became a proxy for the country being in the shit and many people enduring shit lives. And that rather than blame successive right wing, governments who propped up the free market and had no answer when the private sector failed to deliver, they blamed immigrants and the EU. Perhaps even without free movement the EU would have taken that blame, the emphasis would have just been more on finance or sovereignty.

I wonder if those people are gradually realising that the answer to their problems doesn't lie at the end of a Brexit coloured rainbow. It is going to be a fascinating few years. Most of the standard political rules have been ripped apart. I think the Tory "eurosceptics" have started shitting themselves realising they have to deliver this with a minority, unpopular government and very little in the way of widespread public support for many of the simultaneous measures they felt went alongside the process.
I agree with that. Notice how May and the Tories tried to sneak through nasty policies (dementia tax, winter fuel allowance, fox hunting and - arguably - grammar schools) hidden under the Brexit debate? If everyone offered a list of priorities from the NHS, policing, care down to who fills in the potholes, I wonder where Brexit would come?
If my elderly parents (who could lose the WFA but don't know) were offered a choice of Brexit or the WFA, I know which one they would take. Is Brexit the silver foil that's covering up the shit, and will it improve things in the medium term (ie my lifetime)? I seriously doubt it, if it brings an end to austerity then great, but if the money isn't in the economy then surely austerity will get worse?
I wish we had had the negotioations first (ie no referendum) and then the vote on the outcome. I'm sure if there was a good result for the UK the 52% would have been far, far higher and we wouldn't have a broken country, or the EU would give us far more leeway r/e migration etc and we would be happy to stay.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:35 pm

Leaving will get us £350m per week extra to spend. Austerity should be in the bin by 30 March 2019...

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lord Kangana » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:38 pm

I think Worthy's point is a fair one.

Jacob Rees Mogg, to take an example of a typical right wing Tory. Would anyone like to take a wild stab at his motives for Brexit? An end to austerity? More funding for the NHS perhaps? Maybe it was so we could get to grips with Corporation Tax, and large multi-nationals would be forced to pay a less absurd amount of tax? Or possibly an end to zero hours contracts?

And if not these things, what? What will make our country better by being outside the EU?
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:38 pm

Aanvalluh wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:20 pm

I agree with that. Notice how May and the Tories tried to sneak through nasty policies (dementia tax, winter fuel allowance, fox hunting and - arguably - grammar schools) hidden under the Brexit debate? If everyone offered a list of priorities from the NHS, policing, care down to who fills in the potholes, I wonder where Brexit would come?
If my elderly parents (who could lose the WFA but don't know) were offered a choice of Brexit or the WFA, I know which one they would take. Is Brexit the silver foil that's covering up the shit, and will it improve things in the medium term (ie my lifetime)? I seriously doubt it, if it brings an end to austerity then great, but if the money isn't in the economy then surely austerity will get worse?
I wish we had had the negotioations first (ie no referendum) and then the vote on the outcome. I'm sure if there was a good result for the UK the 52% would have been far, far higher and we wouldn't have a broken country, or the EU would give us far more leeway r/e migration etc and we would be happy to stay.
Indeed. May made the mistake of thinking normal people were heavily invested in the "Brexit talks". Businesses are, but most people don't care all that much because it means little to them until there is something that directly impacts on their lives (economically, practically etc...)

And other than Brexit her policies went down like lead balloons - because she thought a) she had it in the bag and b) everyone was obsessed with who would negotiate Brexit. She treated Brexit like her Falklands war and it backfired.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by malcd1 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:56 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:44 am
Aanvalluh wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:10 am
I'll hold my hands up and admit I got it wrong. Thought, basically, we would get some cash to assist the NHS, that's clearly not going to happen, and what I voted for is tearing the country apart - in 2015 we had a , erm, strong and stable government, now we are goverened by a dozen loopy-tunes from Northern Ireland. Oh, we were also told we wouldn't need Visas to go on our hols...that's looking iffy now too.
Immigration didn't bother me, all that would happen is the EU's would be replaced by commonwealths to fill in the gaps, and if numbers came "down" I wouldn't trust them to be correct, politicians lie and lie through their back teeth.
I suppose if May said "there IS £300m/wk and we will spend it on care for the elderly" then I would be a lot happier but there's more chance of me getting a game for England.
Anyone else on here feel it's simply not worth the hassle of the next two years when there are far more urgent things to attend to? Like getting coppers back on the beat??
That is the mid-point that was never found during the campaign. Such debates are increasingly polarised by fanatics on both sides. Leave centred around the imaginary notion of being able to control our own laws - as though we couldn't already. Remain centred around threats of doom if we left. The trouble is that when you polarise things in that way, you often get the result you don't ideally want.

A good Brexit deal (if one ever existed) is probably undeliverable now. Even the hardline Tory Brexiteers seem to be rowing back on the idea that we hold all the cards.

The EU has us over a barrel. Reality is that they always did. The only way forward is for positive negotiations where we offer them what they want and they do the same in return. Certainly we won't get anywhere with the previous bluster and threat approach used...that is entirely the wrong way to negotiate...everyone who negotiates knows that.

The hope for me is that the Tories include all parties in their Brexit negotiating team. We certainly need broader representation. Again even some fairly right wing Tories have raised this as an idea.

The EU certainly hold all the cards but it cannot be in anyone's interest to play hardball with trade, even if they want to set an exaple to the rest of the EU members. There are only 5 or 6 countries that we export more goods to than we import (data from 2015 below). Ireland, Denmark, Malta, Estonia, Bulgaria and possibly Finland. Ireland are by far the biggest but we are also by far their biggest export trade (with the other countries fairly insignificant).

We have over £25b trade deficit with Germany alone who will be a big player in any negotiations. If the EU apply large import taxes on the UK (possibly WTO tariffs) then I hope we apply exactly the same on them. If Audi, Volkswagen or BMW cars cost an extra 15% to buy here then people will need to decide to buy cheaper models or stick with European manufacturers. Of course the consumers will pay the price but if the UK manufacturing increases then the country will benefit. Inward thinking I know but a possibility. I hope it doesn't get to that.

I have no problem with EU citizens coming to the UK to work but I think we need controls with outside EU immigration. Setting a target is not the answer though.

Even if we carry a trade deficit, we still need them more than they need us. I'm not saying it will go smoothly but everyone loses if there is an hard Brexit.

https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lord Kangana » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:08 pm

The EU might not have us over a barrel, but what about the rest if the world? Seriously though, why would anyone risk antagonising the larger market (EU) for a much smaller market share (us) by giving us a more favourable deal? What do they gain from that? So if we don't get a more favourable deal, what was the point of all this?
You can judge the whole world on the sparkle that you think it lacks.
Yes, you can stare into the abyss, but it's staring right back.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Prufrock » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:19 pm

We'll end so agreeing a technicality where things stay basically as they are but we pay some sort of indirect premium that allows us to claim to have technically left.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

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