The Politics Thread
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Re: The Politics Thread
I'm pretty certain even Gordon Brown couldn't f*ck up running the country from the opposition back benches. Even if he'd had 5 years at it by that point.Bruce Rioja wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:02 amAnd not because Brown was making a horse's arse of it. OK!Lord Kangana wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:38 amGovernments pretty much always get a portion of blame vote, as its very easy to see how they'd run the country - they being the ones running it. In 2015, many people (most significantly in the SW) turned their votes from Liberal to Tory. Lets be clear, it was because,in the main, of their supposed record in government. Which is unfathomable, if you think that statement over for a minute.
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Re: The Politics Thread
Apols - I hadn't read your post properly. Brown's still a c*nt though.Lord Kangana wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:25 amI'm pretty certain even Gordon Brown couldn't f*ck up running the country from the opposition back benches. Even if he'd had 5 years at it by that point.Bruce Rioja wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:02 amAnd not because Brown was making a horse's arse of it. OK!Lord Kangana wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:38 amGovernments pretty much always get a portion of blame vote, as its very easy to see how they'd run the country - they being the ones running it. In 2015, many people (most significantly in the SW) turned their votes from Liberal to Tory. Lets be clear, it was because,in the main, of their supposed record in government. Which is unfathomable, if you think that statement over for a minute.
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Re: The Politics Thread
I'm not going to argue that point very vociferously.
You can judge the whole world on the sparkle that you think it lacks.
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Re: The Politics Thread
Right, I'm off to build a space station. Who's in?
Re: The Politics Thread
Slagging Gordon Brown off (and Clegg tbf) at the moment is absolute insanity. Both (along with Cameron) politicians of a much higher pedigree than anything either front bench has to offer at the moment, and by some distance.
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Re: The Politics Thread
Scrapping tuition fees was a stupid policy then and an even more stupid one now. The cost of doing so enormous. The University sector has spent two decades reforming their business models to accomodate tuition fees and various changes to the system. The reverse it now would be chaos and the whole model of University and Higher Education would need to be re-thought again.Harry Genshaw wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:44 pmI'm sure that the Tories were delighted to see the Liberals being held to account, while they kept quiet and tutted years later at how unfair it was. Clegg and Co only had themselves to blame though. The student loans thing was their flagship policy, a line in the sand.BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:37 pmWhat was Clegg meant to do? If he'd been difficult and dug his heels in over a coalition agreement he'd have been painted as the villain preventing the country moving forward. He couldn't win.Lord Kangana wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:24 pmQuite like Vince too. I always liked Nick Clegg, though, too, and agree with David Cameron's assessment that he unfairly faced the flak for Coalition policy.
Look at the current lot already running around hinting at sweeteners to keep the DUP on side. The Liberals would have won a great deal more respect if they'd dug their heels in on at least one Tory proposal rather than wave all their austerity measures through
The idea behind it to allow for wider backgrounds of entrants is totally flawed. And the biggest issue is with the perception of tuition fees...people wrongly see it as being saddled with debt. YOU ONLY REPAY A SMALL MONTHLY AMOUNT WHEN YOUR EARNING A CERTAIN AMOUNT. If you never earn that amount you never repay and it is written off. Instead of scrapping them Labour should have looked at assisting students from lower income families more with the cost of living whilst at University. Which is the real reason those from less disadvantaged backgrounds may be less likely to go (and obvious disadvantages in secondary and further education).
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Re: The Politics Thread
And therby is the answer to a lot of unanswerable questions. A bit like a few Bolton managers of late, nobody quite sure exactly when or where the rot started and how to stop it, only that it had and we hadn't a clue when a saviour would arrive. In our case, it happened; in the national one......
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Re: The Politics Thread
Plenty of silver foil and a HS2 rail link so we can quickly move the launch site, when the moon goes behind buildings n stuff.
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Re: The Politics Thread
Tuition fees were a terrible policy. Too scared to call a tax a tax, we'll call it a loan (and therefore a debt) it put all the burden on the young and made it sound scary.
That said, abolishing them completely would be a middle class tax break and can't be justified.
I'd replace them with a low level tax on all graduates earning over £x (say £25k)
That said, abolishing them completely would be a middle class tax break and can't be justified.
I'd replace them with a low level tax on all graduates earning over £x (say £25k)
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.
Re: The Politics Thread
Sod HS2, you need hyperloop, that's the future.Worthy4England wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:52 pmPlenty of silver foil and a HS2 rail link so we can quickly move the launch site, when the moon goes behind buildings n stuff.
Re: The Politics Thread
Who do you think was responsible for what we have now got?
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Re: The Politics Thread
The sensible thing would be to assist financially those studying things that we have skill shortages for. Rather than say making student nurses worse off when we need more of them, especially with Brexit. For stuff like GPs and nurses it would be easy to tie them in to a period working for the NHS as a condition.Prufrock wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:05 pmTuition fees were a terrible policy. Too scared to call a tax a tax, we'll call it a loan (and therefore a debt) it put all the burden on the young and made it sound scary.
That said, abolishing them completely would be a middle class tax break and can't be justified.
I'd replace them with a low level tax on all graduates earning over £x (say £25k)
That and triple the fees for media studies courses.
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Re: The Politics Thread
Oh absolutely, should have been called a graduate tax. Having said that there is an advantage to fees and variation in fees in that students get a more defined service from their University. And there is a certain expectation on both sides that perhaps wouldn't be there with a universal tax.Prufrock wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:05 pmTuition fees were a terrible policy. Too scared to call a tax a tax, we'll call it a loan (and therefore a debt) it put all the burden on the young and made it sound scary.
That said, abolishing them completely would be a middle class tax break and can't be justified.
I'd replace them with a low level tax on all graduates earning over £x (say £25k)
Re: The Politics Thread
Nice idea's but non-starters.BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:09 pmOh absolutely, should have been called a graduate tax. Having said that there is an advantage to fees and variation in fees in that students get a more defined service from their University. And there is a certain expectation on both sides that perhaps wouldn't be there with a universal tax.Prufrock wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:05 pmTuition fees were a terrible policy. Too scared to call a tax a tax, we'll call it a loan (and therefore a debt) it put all the burden on the young and made it sound scary.
That said, abolishing them completely would be a middle class tax break and can't be justified.
I'd replace them with a low level tax on all graduates earning over £x (say £25k)
May/Tories-business as usual.
Compo/militant-freebies all round.
Now the Lib Dems might run with some of it so they have something to sell if ever they want to share in government again.
Re: The Politics Thread
I think Vince Cable did propose a graduate tax at one point. Might make a re-appearance in his party leadership bid and attempt to claim the middle ground between tuition fees and completely free university education.Hoboh wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:21 pmNice idea's but non-starters.BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:09 pmOh absolutely, should have been called a graduate tax. Having said that there is an advantage to fees and variation in fees in that students get a more defined service from their University. And there is a certain expectation on both sides that perhaps wouldn't be there with a universal tax.Prufrock wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:05 pmTuition fees were a terrible policy. Too scared to call a tax a tax, we'll call it a loan (and therefore a debt) it put all the burden on the young and made it sound scary.
That said, abolishing them completely would be a middle class tax break and can't be justified.
I'd replace them with a low level tax on all graduates earning over £x (say £25k)
May/Tories-business as usual.
Compo/militant-freebies all round.
Now the Lib Dems might run with some of it so they have something to sell if ever they want to share in government again.
Re: The Politics Thread
What does a "more defined service" mean?BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:09 pmOh absolutely, should have been called a graduate tax. Having said that there is an advantage to fees and variation in fees in that students get a more defined service from their University. And there is a certain expectation on both sides that perhaps wouldn't be there with a universal tax.Prufrock wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:05 pmTuition fees were a terrible policy. Too scared to call a tax a tax, we'll call it a loan (and therefore a debt) it put all the burden on the young and made it sound scary.
That said, abolishing them completely would be a middle class tax break and can't be justified.
I'd replace them with a low level tax on all graduates earning over £x (say £25k)
I agree that fees have made the student-uni relationship more like one of customer-service provider, but I think this is a bad thing.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.
Re: The Politics Thread
And it already *is* a tax, it just only applies to people who went to uni in certain years.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.
That it's going to lose its mind
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Re: The Politics Thread
It means the offer goes both ways. Unlike yourself I don't think it is a bad thing. Universities defining what they offer for a student and thinking beyond the teacher student relationship. If we are to produce a modern and varied workforce it is very important. Some Universities can rely on their traditional academic background but many can not and therefore have to offer something different to appeal if they want to charge the same fee.Prufrock wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:53 pmWhat does a "more defined service" mean?BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:09 pmOh absolutely, should have been called a graduate tax. Having said that there is an advantage to fees and variation in fees in that students get a more defined service from their University. And there is a certain expectation on both sides that perhaps wouldn't be there with a universal tax.Prufrock wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:05 pmTuition fees were a terrible policy. Too scared to call a tax a tax, we'll call it a loan (and therefore a debt) it put all the burden on the young and made it sound scary.
That said, abolishing them completely would be a middle class tax break and can't be justified.
I'd replace them with a low level tax on all graduates earning over £x (say £25k)
I agree that fees have made the student-uni relationship more like one of customer-service provider, but I think this is a bad thing.
There are downsides of course to creating an artificial market in this way, but in my view they are outweighed by the benefits.
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