The Politics Thread

If you have a life outside of BWFC, then this is the place to tell us all about your toilet habits, and those bizarre fetishes.......

Moderator: Zulus Thousand of em

Post Reply

Who will you be voting for?

Labour
12
40%
Conservatives
11
37%
Liberal Democrats
2
7%
UK Independence Party (UKIP)
0
No votes
Green Party
3
10%
Plaid Cymru
0
No votes
Other
1
3%
Planet Hobo
1
3%
 
Total votes: 30

Hoboh
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 12881
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 8:19 am

Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Hoboh » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:33 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:03 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:50 pm

You cannot see why people get annoyed about this? I'll tell you something, I can look out of my window up the street and see two houses with 20 somethings complete with about half a dozen kids, none of the fcukers is, nor ever has, worked and the only 'problem' they have is being overweight through sitting on their arses, I know for a fact they do not have 'medical' problems, oh and regular visits from the old Bill. There are more like that not too far away either and I don't live in a particularly 'run down' area.

So come on lets have some bloody honesty here instead of Corbyn type lies and blinkers.
Piece of advice. Stop spying, snooping and perving on your neighbours. Otherwise you'll be getting regular visits from the old bill.
You don't have to 'spy' you idiot, they hardly hide and the street is a public space, talking with other neighbours is not illegal, at least not until the comrades arrive in power, as for perving? Trust me you wouldn't!

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 26357
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:53 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:33 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:03 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:50 pm

You cannot see why people get annoyed about this? I'll tell you something, I can look out of my window up the street and see two houses with 20 somethings complete with about half a dozen kids, none of the fcukers is, nor ever has, worked and the only 'problem' they have is being overweight through sitting on their arses, I know for a fact they do not have 'medical' problems, oh and regular visits from the old Bill. There are more like that not too far away either and I don't live in a particularly 'run down' area.

So come on lets have some bloody honesty here instead of Corbyn type lies and blinkers.
Piece of advice. Stop spying, snooping and perving on your neighbours. Otherwise you'll be getting regular visits from the old bill.
You don't have to 'spy' you idiot, they hardly hide and the street is a public space, talking with other neighbours is not illegal, at least not until the comrades arrive in power, as for perving? Trust me you wouldn't!
Whatever you say. They can see you peeking from behind the curtains you know. However fast you think you are....The street is a public place, however, peering from it or your own house into others houses isn't nice.

What almost certainly is illegal is that you've managed to access their medical records though, they would likely be very concerned by that.

Interesting how you know so much yet can only estimate their number of kids. Not sure if they should be re-assured by that or even more worried.

Hoboh
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 12881
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 8:19 am

Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Hoboh » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:29 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:53 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:33 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:03 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:50 pm

You cannot see why people get annoyed about this? I'll tell you something, I can look out of my window up the street and see two houses with 20 somethings complete with about half a dozen kids, none of the fcukers is, nor ever has, worked and the only 'problem' they have is being overweight through sitting on their arses, I know for a fact they do not have 'medical' problems, oh and regular visits from the old Bill. There are more like that not too far away either and I don't live in a particularly 'run down' area.

So come on lets have some bloody honesty here instead of Corbyn type lies and blinkers.
Piece of advice. Stop spying, snooping and perving on your neighbours. Otherwise you'll be getting regular visits from the old bill.
You don't have to 'spy' you idiot, they hardly hide and the street is a public space, talking with other neighbours is not illegal, at least not until the comrades arrive in power, as for perving? Trust me you wouldn't!
Whatever you say. They can see you peeking from behind the curtains you know. However fast you think you are....The street is a public place, however, peering from it or your own house into others houses isn't nice.

What almost certainly is illegal is that you've managed to access their medical records though, they would likely be very concerned by that.

Interesting how you know so much yet can only estimate their number of kids. Not sure if they should be re-assured by that or even more worried.
Oh ffs I give up with you!
I see you avoid any of the other points and btw I have as much interest in them as I would watching a bloody dog have a crap!
Peeking out the window? I never said I did merely I could but don't let that get in the way of your theory's as for the number of kids, see, I don't spend time counting or spying on them, folk mention them, more so when they scratch cars.
Access medical records, yeah right, but whatever.
You are one of those who always fail to acknowledge a problem, 30 years ago it was 'only a few druggies and dealers', keep repeating that, now look at the problem and so on.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 26357
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:10 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:29 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:53 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:33 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:03 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:50 pm

You cannot see why people get annoyed about this? I'll tell you something, I can look out of my window up the street and see two houses with 20 somethings complete with about half a dozen kids, none of the fcukers is, nor ever has, worked and the only 'problem' they have is being overweight through sitting on their arses, I know for a fact they do not have 'medical' problems, oh and regular visits from the old Bill. There are more like that not too far away either and I don't live in a particularly 'run down' area.

So come on lets have some bloody honesty here instead of Corbyn type lies and blinkers.
Piece of advice. Stop spying, snooping and perving on your neighbours. Otherwise you'll be getting regular visits from the old bill.
You don't have to 'spy' you idiot, they hardly hide and the street is a public space, talking with other neighbours is not illegal, at least not until the comrades arrive in power, as for perving? Trust me you wouldn't!
Whatever you say. They can see you peeking from behind the curtains you know. However fast you think you are....The street is a public place, however, peering from it or your own house into others houses isn't nice.

What almost certainly is illegal is that you've managed to access their medical records though, they would likely be very concerned by that.

Interesting how you know so much yet can only estimate their number of kids. Not sure if they should be re-assured by that or even more worried.
Oh ffs I give up with you!
I see you avoid any of the other points and btw I have as much interest in them as I would watching a bloody dog have a crap!
Peeking out the window? I never said I did merely I could but don't let that get in the way of your theory's as for the number of kids, see, I don't spend time counting or spying on them, folk mention them, more so when they scratch cars.
Access medical records, yeah right, but whatever.
You are one of those who always fail to acknowledge a problem, 30 years ago it was 'only a few druggies and dealers', keep repeating that, now look at the problem and so on.
So you could watch them out your window but don't. You do seem to know an awful lot about them for someone who doesn't peep on them, to be fair.

You said these two families were a prime example of why you were annoyed. And that you knew for a fact that none of them had ever worked nor that they had any health conditions. You knew for a fact. Your words. I think the only way you could know either of those things would be through a conversation with them (seems unlikely they'd converse with the weird man who peeps at them from behind his curtains) or through illegally obtaining their medical records.

User avatar
Abdoulaye's Twin
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8543
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:27 pm
Location: Skye high

Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:35 pm

So far as I can see, you evidence for all this is anecdotal. Where is the evidence that there are serious numbers of people living the life of riley on the taxpayer? Anecdotally I've seen more evidence of rich people taking the piss than skivers.

Regardless of the numbers there is no reason to feck over the genuine because of the need to go after the feckless. Treat the genuine with respect and treat the feckless different. How difficult is that?

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 26357
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:44 pm

Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:35 pm
So far as I can see, you evidence for all this is anecdotal. Where is the evidence that there are serious numbers of people living the life of riley on the taxpayer? Anecdotally I've seen more evidence of rich people taking the piss than skivers.

Regardless of the numbers there is no reason to feck over the genuine because of the need to go after the feckless. Treat the genuine with respect and treat the feckless different. How difficult is that?
There isn't often a clear dividing line though. Lots of people may genuinely need help for a multitude of reasons but it may not be immediately apparent.

I think as a society we should be trying to help people get going, after that it is up to them. But we've had 37 years of right wing, economy and market first politics. 37 years. And we're now in a full hard right cycle. This is where all that has got us. A broken, divided society, a limping economy, ineffective government, a tiny, tiny minority profiting whilst everyone else at best bumbles along.

Its way, way, way overdue time for a change. We've given it 37 years. The market hasn't fixed our problems. 30 years was enough to know. But we've been extra generous. Given those politics another 7 to sort their mess out. And we're in deeper than ever.

Time for change is well overdue.

Hoboh
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 12881
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 8:19 am

Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Hoboh » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:20 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:44 pm
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:35 pm
So far as I can see, you evidence for all this is anecdotal. Where is the evidence that there are serious numbers of people living the life of riley on the taxpayer? Anecdotally I've seen more evidence of rich people taking the piss than skivers.

Regardless of the numbers there is no reason to feck over the genuine because of the need to go after the feckless. Treat the genuine with respect and treat the feckless different. How difficult is that?
There isn't often a clear dividing line though. Lots of people may genuinely need help for a multitude of reasons but it may not be immediately apparent.

I think as a society we should be trying to help people get going, after that it is up to them. But we've had 37 years of right wing, economy and market first politics. 37 years. And we're now in a full hard right cycle. This is where all that has got us. A broken, divided society, a limping economy, ineffective government, a tiny, tiny minority profiting whilst everyone else at best bumbles along.

Its way, way, way overdue time for a change. We've given it 37 years. The market hasn't fixed our problems. 30 years was enough to know. But we've been extra generous. Given those politics another 7 to sort their mess out. And we're in deeper than ever.

Time for change is well overdue.
Oh, I see the last Labour governments pre-Blair were so good they should be resurrected then?

Just admit you are a bloody closet commie who would like to dictate everything under the pretence 'it's all for our own good' whilst lining your pockets with the 'good intentions for all'.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 26357
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:40 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:20 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:44 pm
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:35 pm
So far as I can see, you evidence for all this is anecdotal. Where is the evidence that there are serious numbers of people living the life of riley on the taxpayer? Anecdotally I've seen more evidence of rich people taking the piss than skivers.

Regardless of the numbers there is no reason to feck over the genuine because of the need to go after the feckless. Treat the genuine with respect and treat the feckless different. How difficult is that?
There isn't often a clear dividing line though. Lots of people may genuinely need help for a multitude of reasons but it may not be immediately apparent.

I think as a society we should be trying to help people get going, after that it is up to them. But we've had 37 years of right wing, economy and market first politics. 37 years. And we're now in a full hard right cycle. This is where all that has got us. A broken, divided society, a limping economy, ineffective government, a tiny, tiny minority profiting whilst everyone else at best bumbles along.

Its way, way, way overdue time for a change. We've given it 37 years. The market hasn't fixed our problems. 30 years was enough to know. But we've been extra generous. Given those politics another 7 to sort their mess out. And we're in deeper than ever.

Time for change is well overdue.
Oh, I see the last Labour governments pre-Blair were so good they should be resurrected then?

Just admit you are a bloody closet commie who would like to dictate everything under the pretence 'it's all for our own good' whilst lining your pockets with the 'good intentions for all'.
The fact that in your head the only alternative to rampant unrestricted free market economics and right of centre socio-economic policy is communism speaks volumes.

There is absolutely no point entering into a conversation when you can only deal in extremes and absolutes.

Fact is you don't even understand what Communism is. Which is why you conflate any left of centre policy with it. Its tiring. You will note that I don't conflate all right of centre policy with fascism.

Hoboh
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 12881
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 8:19 am

Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Hoboh » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:19 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:40 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:20 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:44 pm
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:35 pm
So far as I can see, you evidence for all this is anecdotal. Where is the evidence that there are serious numbers of people living the life of riley on the taxpayer? Anecdotally I've seen more evidence of rich people taking the piss than skivers.

Regardless of the numbers there is no reason to feck over the genuine because of the need to go after the feckless. Treat the genuine with respect and treat the feckless different. How difficult is that?
There isn't often a clear dividing line though. Lots of people may genuinely need help for a multitude of reasons but it may not be immediately apparent.

I think as a society we should be trying to help people get going, after that it is up to them. But we've had 37 years of right wing, economy and market first politics. 37 years. And we're now in a full hard right cycle. This is where all that has got us. A broken, divided society, a limping economy, ineffective government, a tiny, tiny minority profiting whilst everyone else at best bumbles along.

Its way, way, way overdue time for a change. We've given it 37 years. The market hasn't fixed our problems. 30 years was enough to know. But we've been extra generous. Given those politics another 7 to sort their mess out. And we're in deeper than ever.

Time for change is well overdue.
Oh, I see the last Labour governments pre-Blair were so good they should be resurrected then?

Just admit you are a bloody closet commie who would like to dictate everything under the pretence 'it's all for our own good' whilst lining your pockets with the 'good intentions for all'.
The fact that in your head the only alternative to rampant unrestricted free market economics and right of centre socio-economic policy is communism speaks volumes.

There is absolutely no point entering into a conversation when you can only deal in extremes and absolutes.

Fact is you don't even understand what Communism is. Which is why you conflate any left of centre policy with it. Its tiring. You will note that I don't conflate all right of centre policy with fascism.
I do know that the party you are so fond of has Marxists in key positions and is led by a Marxist/commie lover, these are the people spouting your mild left wing peoples policy, for now anyway.
Yes I do know what communism is, it's you that fails to understand it and its implications.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 26357
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:57 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:19 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:40 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:20 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:44 pm
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:35 pm
So far as I can see, you evidence for all this is anecdotal. Where is the evidence that there are serious numbers of people living the life of riley on the taxpayer? Anecdotally I've seen more evidence of rich people taking the piss than skivers.

Regardless of the numbers there is no reason to feck over the genuine because of the need to go after the feckless. Treat the genuine with respect and treat the feckless different. How difficult is that?
There isn't often a clear dividing line though. Lots of people may genuinely need help for a multitude of reasons but it may not be immediately apparent.

I think as a society we should be trying to help people get going, after that it is up to them. But we've had 37 years of right wing, economy and market first politics. 37 years. And we're now in a full hard right cycle. This is where all that has got us. A broken, divided society, a limping economy, ineffective government, a tiny, tiny minority profiting whilst everyone else at best bumbles along.

Its way, way, way overdue time for a change. We've given it 37 years. The market hasn't fixed our problems. 30 years was enough to know. But we've been extra generous. Given those politics another 7 to sort their mess out. And we're in deeper than ever.

Time for change is well overdue.
Oh, I see the last Labour governments pre-Blair were so good they should be resurrected then?

Just admit you are a bloody closet commie who would like to dictate everything under the pretence 'it's all for our own good' whilst lining your pockets with the 'good intentions for all'.
The fact that in your head the only alternative to rampant unrestricted free market economics and right of centre socio-economic policy is communism speaks volumes.

There is absolutely no point entering into a conversation when you can only deal in extremes and absolutes.

Fact is you don't even understand what Communism is. Which is why you conflate any left of centre policy with it. Its tiring. You will note that I don't conflate all right of centre policy with fascism.
I do know that the party you are so fond of has Marxists in key positions and is led by a Marxist/commie lover, these are the people spouting your mild left wing peoples policy, for now anyway.
Yes I do know what communism is, it's you that fails to understand it and its implications.
Your contribution is as useful as if I called you a Nazi. If you genuinely think Corbyn is a Communist then all hope is lost for you. And it's pointless discussing it further.

But I don't align myself to Corbyn or ideologies. I have eyes, and can see what our society has become at the mercy of an unfettered free market. There are plenty of ways to introduce a fairer society and check the more abhorrent free market practices.

Corbyn proposes a form of social democracy - certainly not communism. That is one such potential route.

Lord Kangana
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 15355
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:42 pm
Location: Vagantes numquam erramus

Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lord Kangana » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:18 pm

You can judge the whole world on the sparkle that you think it lacks.
Yes, you can stare into the abyss, but it's staring right back.

Prufrock
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 20199
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:51 pm

Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Prufrock » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:10 pm

See Uber-Tory Laura Kuenssberg (nothing makes me feel more out of touch than watching supposedly sane adults lose their fecking shit over her) has just tweeted that the DWP are charging 9ppm or 55ppm from mobiles (natch) to call the Universal Credit helpline.

I try to avoid the "Tories are morally bad and wilfully screw over the poor" line, but UC and its implementation make it fecking difficult. Cold blooded political calculation at its worst. I could at least see how the bedroom tax was a policy feck up no-one had thought through properly but Christ.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

Hoboh
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 12881
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 8:19 am

Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Hoboh » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:53 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:10 pm
See Uber-Tory Laura Kuenssberg (nothing makes me feel more out of touch than watching supposedly sane adults lose their fecking shit over her) has just tweeted that the DWP are charging 9ppm or 55ppm from mobiles (natch) to call the Universal Credit helpline.

I try to avoid the "Tories are morally bad and wilfully screw over the poor" line, but UC and its implementation make it fecking difficult. Cold blooded political calculation at its worst. I could at least see how the bedroom tax was a policy feck up no-one had thought through properly but Christ.
That if true is bang out of order

User avatar
Abdoulaye's Twin
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8543
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:27 pm
Location: Skye high

Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:09 am

Hoboh wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:53 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:10 pm
See Uber-Tory Laura Kuenssberg (nothing makes me feel more out of touch than watching supposedly sane adults lose their fecking shit over her) has just tweeted that the DWP are charging 9ppm or 55ppm from mobiles (natch) to call the Universal Credit helpline.

I try to avoid the "Tories are morally bad and wilfully screw over the poor" line, but UC and its implementation make it fecking difficult. Cold blooded political calculation at its worst. I could at least see how the bedroom tax was a policy feck up no-one had thought through properly but Christ.
That if true is bang out of order
It is and they don't see why it is a problem.

User avatar
Lost Leopard Spot
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 18436
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 11:14 am
Location: In the long grass, hunting for a watering hole.

Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:20 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:40 pm
. You will note that I don't conflate all right of centre policy with fascism.
...well, *cough*, actually, you, Prufrock, and others do exactly that more often than you would seem to want to acknowledge with the occasional racism label thrown in (usually in the form of a oh so knowing, sarcastic 'brown people' comment).
That's not a leopard!
頑張ってください

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 26357
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:38 pm

This is prominent Brexit campaigner Peter North a month or two before the Referendum....
At worst we have two years of unsettled markets where there will be winners and losers. But the fundamentals do not change. Britain is still a first world dynamic economy with countless assets and factors in its favour which are timeless irrespective of the UK's membership of the EU. On that basis, I would rather bite the bullet and vote to leave than vote for the stagnating certainty of the status quo and the political stalemate that comes with it, with absolutely zero chance of meaningful domestic or EU reform.
http://peterjnorth.blogspot.co.uk/2016/ ... uture.html

And this is him now...predicting a 10 year recession worse than anything in the last half a century...
Now that we know there isn't going to be a deal we can at least narrow down some of the possibilities of what post-Brexit Britain looks like.

In the first year or so we are going to lose a lot of manufacturing. Virtually all JIT export manufacturing will fold inside a year. Initially we will see food prices plummet but this won't last. Domestic agriculture won't be able to compete and we'll see a gradual decline of UK production. UK meats will be premium produce and no longer affordable to most.

Once food importers have crushed all UK competition they will gradually raise their prices, simply because they can. Meanwhile wages will stay depressed and because of the collapse of disposable income and availability of staff, we can probably expect the service sector to take a big hit thus eliminating all the jobs that might provide a supplementary income.

Across the board we will see prices rising. There will be some serendipitous benefits but nothing that offsets the mass job losses. We will see a lot of foreign investment dry up and banking services will move to the EU. Dublin and Frankfurt. I expect that house prices will start to fall, but that's not going to do anyone any favours in the short to mid term.

Since a lot of freight will no longer be able to go through Calais we can expect a lot more use of the port at Hull so we may see an expansion in distribution centres in the North.

All in all we are looking at serious austerity as it will take a few years at least to rebuild our trade relations with third countries. If we go down the path of unilateral trade liberalisation then we will probably find it hard to strike new deals.
The Brexit lies just never end. He was very happy to tell us "2 years of light pain" before the referendum. Now it's all unfolding its "10 years of the worst recession in our lifetimes.." all the while pretending this is what he predicted all along.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 26357
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:43 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:20 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:40 pm
. You will note that I don't conflate all right of centre policy with fascism.
...well, *cough*, actually, you, Prufrock, and others do exactly that more often than you would seem to want to acknowledge with the occasional racism label thrown in (usually in the form of a oh so knowing, sarcastic 'brown people' comment).
Even were that the case it very much does not equate to lumping in any right of centre policy ideas into a "fascism basket".

User avatar
Lost Leopard Spot
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 18436
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 11:14 am
Location: In the long grass, hunting for a watering hole.

Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:55 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:43 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:20 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:40 pm
. You will note that I don't conflate all right of centre policy with fascism.
...well, *cough*, actually, you, Prufrock, and others do exactly that more often than you would seem to want to acknowledge with the occasional racism label thrown in (usually in the form of a oh so knowing, sarcastic 'brown people' comment).
Even were that the case it very much does not equate to lumping in any right of centre policy ideas into a "fascism basket".
There is also this strange idea that Brexit is driven by a right wing/fascist agenda (with obvious - to the propagators of this theory - racist overtones).
There can't possibly be any left of centre supporters of Brexit out there, no siree!
That's not a leopard!
頑張ってください

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 26357
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:21 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:55 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:43 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:20 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:40 pm
. You will note that I don't conflate all right of centre policy with fascism.
...well, *cough*, actually, you, Prufrock, and others do exactly that more often than you would seem to want to acknowledge with the occasional racism label thrown in (usually in the form of a oh so knowing, sarcastic 'brown people' comment).
Even were that the case it very much does not equate to lumping in any right of centre policy ideas into a "fascism basket".
There is also this strange idea that Brexit is driven by a right wing/fascist agenda (with obvious - to the propagators of this theory - racist overtones).
There can't possibly be any left of centre supporters of Brexit out there, no siree!
The idea of leaving the EU is very much not something historically associated with solely the right in this country, its been very much the hard left's view as well. In fact it has been the centre ground that has been pro EU on both sides of the political spectrum.

Like it or not however, Brexit was very much jumped on by the right hand side of the Tory party, by UKIP and by generally further to the right people and driven by that agenda. Sure it wasn't ONLY those elements involved, but essentially the Brexit noises have mainly come from the right. The agenda was primarily driven by anti-immigration, border control and sovereignty messaging, all things people associate with the more right-wing side of the Tory party and latterly UKIP. Whether reality or not it certainly is widely perceived that way. And why Corbyn (who was no EU supporter) couldn't afford to be seen on the Brexit side.

Of course people left of centre voted for Brexit, but given it is very hard to accurately pin down people's position on the political spectrum (given most have mixed views and mixed voting patterns), I'd still confidently predict that a greater number of Brexit voters came from the right.

I think what you're referring to is the commentary that "most voted for Brexit because of immigration"...which may be a perception more than a reality but certainly has had some data to support it. Those who voted for Brexit because they thought it would let us close our borders undoubtedly contain a nationalistic, xenophobic and racist element. And often that makes the loudest noise.

User avatar
Lost Leopard Spot
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 18436
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 11:14 am
Location: In the long grass, hunting for a watering hole.

Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:42 pm

The loudest noise at the moment comes from told you so Remainers. Some of us voted Brexit knowing that the EU would punish us. Mr Varoufakis has consistently pointed out how extremely difficult this path will be, having been severely punished himself (by proxy) during the fiasco of the Greek fiscal crisis.
And yet we still voted for exit, and still believe a no negotiation hard Brexit will bring benefits, and potentially put much needed reform into the European political class. Not as much of course than if Catalonia has a hard seccession. That'll make Brexot look like parish council tiffs.
That's not a leopard!
頑張ってください

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests