The Politics Thread

[TANGODANCER]

I'll never stop believing in my country's ability to foster a strong society built around care and compassion for each other and a collective desire to make things better for the whole world. Never. That does not make me extremist. It simply means I haven't and never will give up.

Cue, Louis Armstrong comes on air singing..."And I say to myself, what a wonderful world".....
Deny it all you want, but be realistic man. Noble sentiments indeed if they were ever overall policy, but our country's leaders couldnt run a raffle without a fall-out and a re-draw. Reasonable balanced thinking just doesn't work amongst so-called intelligent folk, as proven daily by the Westminster wailers, never mind the rest, whose only interest is "me". To some extent, I agree with Hoboh's views that our leaders live in a cloud cuckoo land in their heads. What can't be denied is that we live in a world forever Yin and Yang world where goodies and baddies dwell in equal numbers. Even in popular fairy story fiction, for every King Arthur there's a Mordred, for every Peter Pan a Captain Hook and every Aslam an Ice Queen. It's the way of the world and always has been. Britain got as near as it gets to getting it right, then the rest caught us up and changed the rules. Now, shooting ourselves in the foot doesn't go anwhere near it. Check our prison systems and head count.

Humanity and equality are wonderful sentiments if everybody were rational, caring and a same-thinking community. Simply put, they aren't and, under our current models, never will be. The Bible tells us to respect our leaders, but hey, who takes notice of that, and if they ever do, which leaders? They know their rights man....!

Disclaimer. Having spent twenty years of my life in a two-up, two down, no bathroom, in chimney pot land and since lived on two local housing estates, plus 35 years in Farnworth, I accept I may see life a little differently than others raised in rather better environs. I also retired from full time work at 70, that may count for a bit in the main equation.

Amen.

[boltonboris]

"ordering vans to drive round neighbourhoods telling foreign people to "go home""

Was this an actual policy, or just a lie?

[BWFC_Insane]

I'll never stop believing in my country's ability to foster a strong society built around care and compassion for each other and a collective desire to make things better for the whole world. Never. That does not make me extremist. It simply means I haven't and never will give up.

Cue, Louis Armstrong comes on air singing..."And I say to myself, what a wonderful world".....
Deny it all you want, but be realistic man. Noble sentiments indeed if they were ever overall policy, but our country's leaders couldnt run a raffle without a fall-out and a re-draw. Reasonable balanced thinking just doesn't work amongst so-called intelligent folk, as proven daily by the Westminster wailers, never mind the rest, whose only interest is "me". To some extent, I agree with Hoboh's views that our leaders live in a cloud cuckoo land in their heads. What can't be denied is that we live in a world forever Yin and Yang world where goodies and baddies dwell in equal numbers. Even in popular fairy story fiction, for every King Arthur there's a Mordred, for every Peter Pan a Captain Hook and every Aslam an Ice Queen. It's the way of the world and always has been. Britain got as near as it gets to getting it right, then the rest caught us up and changed the rules. Now, shooting ourselves in the foot doesn't go anwhere near it. Check our prison systems and head count.

Humanity and equality are wonderful sentiments if everybody were rational, caring and a same-thinking community. Simply put, they aren't and, under our current models, never will be. The Bible tells us to respect our leaders, but hey, who takes notice of that, and if they ever do, which leaders? They know their rights man....!

Disclaimer. Having spent twenty years of my life in a two-up, two down, no bathroom, in chimney pot land and since lived on two local housing estates, plus 35 years in Farnworth, I accept I may see life a little differently than others raised in rather better environs. I also retired from full time work at 70, that may count for a bit in the main equation.

Amen.

Not sure what your point is - I'm not expecting the world to become some unicorn fantasy land where everyone is a great person.

What I'm saying is that striving for better will always be what I believe in rather than sinking in a pool of loathing, hatred and division.

I will never, ever accept someone saying "things can't be better than this". Its just ridiculous. Neither do I subscribe to some unilateral vision of equality. They are both as ridiculous as each other.

The real world is full of wonderful people who support each other. I do not believe deep down our country wants a "hostile environment" for anyone and that we've become so consumed and tricked into blame and finger pointing that its easy targets. If I didn't think we could do better than send vans to drive round telling foreign people to "go home" then I'd personally pack my bags and find somewhere else to live. But I do think we can and will do better.

I think some like Hoboh need to open their eyes a bit to the world and look beyond hate fuelling headlines and see that most people are good, honest and just wanting to live with their families in a tolerant and open society. That genuinely is what I believe most want. That is being drowned out deliberately by figures spouting extremes and hate on both sides of politics right now - and perpetuated by a sensationalist (mainly) right wing media.

[BWFC_Insane]

"ordering vans to drive round neighbourhoods telling foreign people to "go home""

Was this an actual policy, or just a lie?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 12271.html

It was an actual thing - that happened. Is very real. And May tried to lie and pretend she never wanted them - despite it being subsequently revealed that she had asked for the language on the vans to be "made tougher".

https://www.businessinsider.com/theresa ... ?r=US&IR=T

[Enoch]

Hats off to Ian Austin MP.

He becomes the eighth independent MP in the House of Commons having resigned from his party because of racism.

Mr Austin has chosen not aligned himself with the Europhile group assembling itself in Parliament, using a variety of excuses to justify their motives, in an attempt to overthrow the will of the British people.

[TANGODANCER]

I'll never stop believing in my country's ability to foster a strong society built around care and compassion for each other and a collective desire to make things better for the whole world. Never. That does not make me extremist. It simply means I haven't and never will give up.

Cue, Louis Armstrong comes on air singing..."And I say to myself, what a wonderful world".....
Deny it all you want, but be realistic man. Noble sentiments indeed if they were ever overall policy, but our country's leaders couldnt run a raffle without a fall-out and a re-draw. Reasonable balanced thinking just doesn't work amongst so-called intelligent folk, as proven daily by the Westminster wailers, never mind the rest, whose only interest is "me". To some extent, I agree with Hoboh's views that our leaders live in a cloud cuckoo land in their heads. What can't be denied is that we live in a world forever Yin and Yang world where goodies and baddies dwell in equal numbers. Even in popular fairy story fiction, for every King Arthur there's a Mordred, for every Peter Pan a Captain Hook and every Aslam an Ice Queen. It's the way of the world and always has been. Britain got as near as it gets to getting it right, then the rest caught us up and changed the rules. Now, shooting ourselves in the foot doesn't go anwhere near it. Check our prison systems and head count.

Humanity and equality are wonderful sentiments if everybody were rational, caring and a same-thinking community. Simply put, they aren't and, under our current models, never will be. The Bible tells us to respect our leaders, but hey, who takes notice of that, and if they ever do, which leaders? They know their rights man....!

Disclaimer. Having spent twenty years of my life in a two-up, two down, no bathroom, in chimney pot land and since lived on two local housing estates, plus 35 years in Farnworth, I accept I may see life a little differently than others raised in rather better environs. I also retired from full time work at 70, that may count for a bit in the main equation.

Amen.

Not sure what your point is - I'm not expecting the world to become some unicorn fantasy land where everyone is a great person.

Main reason why I don't post much on this thread. You never see anyone's point but your own.

[boltonboris]

"ordering vans to drive round neighbourhoods telling foreign people to "go home""

Was this an actual policy, or just a lie?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 12271.html

It was an actual thing - that happened. Is very real. And May tried to lie and pretend she never wanted them - despite it being subsequently revealed that she had asked for the language on the vans to be "made tougher".

https://www.businessinsider.com/theresa ... ?r=US&IR=T

feck me, that's atrocious

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I'll never stop believing in my country's ability to foster a strong society built around care and compassion for each other and a collective desire to make things better for the whole world. Never. That does not make me extremist. It simply means I haven't and never will give up.

Cue, Louis Armstrong comes on air singing..."And I say to myself, what a wonderful world".....
Deny it all you want, but be realistic man. Noble sentiments indeed if they were ever overall policy, but our country's leaders couldnt run a raffle without a fall-out and a re-draw. Reasonable balanced thinking just doesn't work amongst so-called intelligent folk, as proven daily by the Westminster wailers, never mind the rest, whose only interest is "me". To some extent, I agree with Hoboh's views that our leaders live in a cloud cuckoo land in their heads. What can't be denied is that we live in a world forever Yin and Yang world where goodies and baddies dwell in equal numbers. Even in popular fairy story fiction, for every King Arthur there's a Mordred, for every Peter Pan a Captain Hook and every Aslam an Ice Queen. It's the way of the world and always has been. Britain got as near as it gets to getting it right, then the rest caught us up and changed the rules. Now, shooting ourselves in the foot doesn't go anwhere near it. Check our prison systems and head count.

Humanity and equality are wonderful sentiments if everybody were rational, caring and a same-thinking community. Simply put, they aren't and, under our current models, never will be. The Bible tells us to respect our leaders, but hey, who takes notice of that, and if they ever do, which leaders? They know their rights man....!

Disclaimer. Having spent twenty years of my life in a two-up, two down, no bathroom, in chimney pot land and since lived on two local housing estates, plus 35 years in Farnworth, I accept I may see life a little differently than others raised in rather better environs. I also retired from full time work at 70, that may count for a bit in the main equation.

Amen.

Not sure what your point is - I'm not expecting the world to become some unicorn fantasy land where everyone is a great person.

Main reason why I don't post much on this thread. You never see anyone's point but your own.

Tango, he's utterly incapable of seeing anything but his own blinkered view. Worse than that, any view that deviates ever so slightly from his own, is in his mind, tainted. And the irony is, he doesn't even realise what an extremist he is!

[BWFC_Insane]

I'll never stop believing in my country's ability to foster a strong society built around care and compassion for each other and a collective desire to make things better for the whole world. Never. That does not make me extremist. It simply means I haven't and never will give up.

Cue, Louis Armstrong comes on air singing..."And I say to myself, what a wonderful world".....
Deny it all you want, but be realistic man. Noble sentiments indeed if they were ever overall policy, but our country's leaders couldnt run a raffle without a fall-out and a re-draw. Reasonable balanced thinking just doesn't work amongst so-called intelligent folk, as proven daily by the Westminster wailers, never mind the rest, whose only interest is "me". To some extent, I agree with Hoboh's views that our leaders live in a cloud cuckoo land in their heads. What can't be denied is that we live in a world forever Yin and Yang world where goodies and baddies dwell in equal numbers. Even in popular fairy story fiction, for every King Arthur there's a Mordred, for every Peter Pan a Captain Hook and every Aslam an Ice Queen. It's the way of the world and always has been. Britain got as near as it gets to getting it right, then the rest caught us up and changed the rules. Now, shooting ourselves in the foot doesn't go anwhere near it. Check our prison systems and head count.

Humanity and equality are wonderful sentiments if everybody were rational, caring and a same-thinking community. Simply put, they aren't and, under our current models, never will be. The Bible tells us to respect our leaders, but hey, who takes notice of that, and if they ever do, which leaders? They know their rights man....!

Disclaimer. Having spent twenty years of my life in a two-up, two down, no bathroom, in chimney pot land and since lived on two local housing estates, plus 35 years in Farnworth, I accept I may see life a little differently than others raised in rather better environs. I also retired from full time work at 70, that may count for a bit in the main equation.

Amen.

Not sure what your point is - I'm not expecting the world to become some unicorn fantasy land where everyone is a great person.

Main reason why I don't post much on this thread. You never see anyone's point but your own.

Tango, he's utterly incapable of seeing anything but his own blinkered view. Worse than that, any view that deviates ever so slightly from his own, is in his mind, tainted. And the irony is, he doesn't even realise what an extremist he is!

And what an absolute classic reflection of where we are. A moderate view that says "we shouldn't be so full of hatred and hellbent on division" is met with "what an extremist". Its exactly this sort of reductive utter nonsense that leads us to where we are now.

I believe that collectively we can and will do better than this. If that makes me an extremist in your eyes then the issue is firmly, firmly with you and not me.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

"ordering vans to drive round neighbourhoods telling foreign people to "go home""

Was this an actual policy, or just a lie?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 12271.html

It was an actual thing - that happened. Is very real. And May tried to lie and pretend she never wanted them - despite it being subsequently revealed that she had asked for the language on the vans to be "made tougher".

https://www.businessinsider.com/theresa ... ?r=US&IR=T

feck me, that's atrocious

It's a fxcking good job I wasn't Home Secretary then. I can tell you now that any illegal immigrants still here when I'm it will be blowing up their own inflatables that they will pay for and paddling back under their own power, after paying the rent and milk bills, the cxnts!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I'll never stop believing in my country's ability to foster a strong society built around care and compassion for each other and a collective desire to make things better for the whole world. Never. That does not make me extremist. It simply means I haven't and never will give up.

Cue, Louis Armstrong comes on air singing..."And I say to myself, what a wonderful world".....
Deny it all you want, but be realistic man. Noble sentiments indeed if they were ever overall policy, but our country's leaders couldnt run a raffle without a fall-out and a re-draw. Reasonable balanced thinking just doesn't work amongst so-called intelligent folk, as proven daily by the Westminster wailers, never mind the rest, whose only interest is "me". To some extent, I agree with Hoboh's views that our leaders live in a cloud cuckoo land in their heads. What can't be denied is that we live in a world forever Yin and Yang world where goodies and baddies dwell in equal numbers. Even in popular fairy story fiction, for every King Arthur there's a Mordred, for every Peter Pan a Captain Hook and every Aslam an Ice Queen. It's the way of the world and always has been. Britain got as near as it gets to getting it right, then the rest caught us up and changed the rules. Now, shooting ourselves in the foot doesn't go anwhere near it. Check our prison systems and head count.

Humanity and equality are wonderful sentiments if everybody were rational, caring and a same-thinking community. Simply put, they aren't and, under our current models, never will be. The Bible tells us to respect our leaders, but hey, who takes notice of that, and if they ever do, which leaders? They know their rights man....!

Disclaimer. Having spent twenty years of my life in a two-up, two down, no bathroom, in chimney pot land and since lived on two local housing estates, plus 35 years in Farnworth, I accept I may see life a little differently than others raised in rather better environs. I also retired from full time work at 70, that may count for a bit in the main equation.

Amen.

Not sure what your point is - I'm not expecting the world to become some unicorn fantasy land where everyone is a great person.

Main reason why I don't post much on this thread. You never see anyone's point but your own.

Tango, he's utterly incapable of seeing anything but his own blinkered view. Worse than that, any view that deviates ever so slightly from his own, is in his mind, tainted. And the irony is, he doesn't even realise what an extremist he is!

And what an absolute classic reflection of where we are. A moderate view that says "we shouldn't be so full of hatred and hellbent on division" is met with "what an extremist". Its exactly this sort of reductive utter nonsense that leads us to where we are now.

I believe that collectively we can and will do better than this. If that makes me an extremist in your eyes then the issue is firmly, firmly with you and not me.

You are equally as full of hate and spite as I am pal.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'll never stop believing in my country's ability to foster a strong society built around care and compassion for each other and a collective desire to make things better for the whole world. Never. That does not make me extremist. It simply means I haven't and never will give up.

Cue, Louis Armstrong comes on air singing..."And I say to myself, what a wonderful world".....
Deny it all you want, but be realistic man. Noble sentiments indeed if they were ever overall policy, but our country's leaders couldnt run a raffle without a fall-out and a re-draw. Reasonable balanced thinking just doesn't work amongst so-called intelligent folk, as proven daily by the Westminster wailers, never mind the rest, whose only interest is "me". To some extent, I agree with Hoboh's views that our leaders live in a cloud cuckoo land in their heads. What can't be denied is that we live in a world forever Yin and Yang world where goodies and baddies dwell in equal numbers. Even in popular fairy story fiction, for every King Arthur there's a Mordred, for every Peter Pan a Captain Hook and every Aslam an Ice Queen. It's the way of the world and always has been. Britain got as near as it gets to getting it right, then the rest caught us up and changed the rules. Now, shooting ourselves in the foot doesn't go anwhere near it. Check our prison systems and head count.

Humanity and equality are wonderful sentiments if everybody were rational, caring and a same-thinking community. Simply put, they aren't and, under our current models, never will be. The Bible tells us to respect our leaders, but hey, who takes notice of that, and if they ever do, which leaders? They know their rights man....!

Disclaimer. Having spent twenty years of my life in a two-up, two down, no bathroom, in chimney pot land and since lived on two local housing estates, plus 35 years in Farnworth, I accept I may see life a little differently than others raised in rather better environs. I also retired from full time work at 70, that may count for a bit in the main equation.

Amen.

Not sure what your point is - I'm not expecting the world to become some unicorn fantasy land where everyone is a great person.

Main reason why I don't post much on this thread. You never see anyone's point but your own.

Tango, he's utterly incapable of seeing anything but his own blinkered view. Worse than that, any view that deviates ever so slightly from his own, is in his mind, tainted. And the irony is, he doesn't even realise what an extremist he is!

And what an absolute classic reflection of where we are. A moderate view that says "we shouldn't be so full of hatred and hellbent on division" is met with "what an extremist". Its exactly this sort of reductive utter nonsense that leads us to where we are now.

I believe that collectively we can and will do better than this. If that makes me an extremist in your eyes then the issue is firmly, firmly with you and not me.

You are equally as full of hate and spite as I am pal.

I'm not accusing you of being full of anything.

Everyone is human nobody is perfect, nobody can truthfully say they aren't at times filled with hate or the need for revenge. But there is a distinction - we can rationalise and come to reasonable conclusions. Wishing a week old baby dies (as I've seen in various places on social media and online comments) is just so far out of where I believe our society at large is.. Hating people because they are immigrants or come from a different place or have a different religion is not British - I think some in our society have just forgotten the values we hold.

If we take the current case - as I've said I don't think we should invite her back. But we also must remember that she was 15, groomed and has a baby who is entirely innocent in all this. I can see both sides of the debate. My personal view is that it is too dangerous to let her back, but if we can save that young baby - then we must. Is that extremist? If it is then I'll happily happily die on my "extreme views".

[TANGODANCER]

All in an ideal world, of course. Just a pity we don't live in one! This whole argument is a real N.S.S example. Every single rational sensible person would like things to be good,fair and wonderful. That's the Galahad sindrome,( also known as Wally World) white horse, sword of truth and all that where Aslam reigns and stands guard over all.

In reality (that part where we all look around us and face facts) we all know what should be and we all know what is. This is the fifty fifty world or "Here be demons"version where Ice Witches with rubber lips and tyre-track eyebrows rule, nineteen-year-old mothers are pregnant with their third child and hooded morons inhale toxic smoke as they plan their next act of lunacy bricking buses. One is a vision, the other the "Good Morning, welcome to the Real World". There are, of course, some decent folk who are sick of it all.

Who wouldn't want Wally instead of the demons? So what's the argument about?

[Hoboh]

And what an absolute classic reflection of where we are. A moderate view that says "we shouldn't be so full of hatred and hellbent on division" is met with "what an extremist". Its exactly this sort of reductive utter nonsense that leads us to where we are now.

I believe that collectively we can and will do better than this. If that makes me an extremist in your eyes then the issue is firmly, firmly with you and not me.

BWFCi, have you actually read some of your posts and counted up the number of times you label others with different points of view as 'extremist'?
The number of people who do get on and will look out for others is by no means tiny now but the cesspit of wannabe, easy money, me, me, me is growing largely unchecked down to the belief if you treat um right, give them rights and excuse their behaviour they'll all come good, no they fcuking won't!

[BWFC_Insane]

And another Tory policy found to be racist by the high court.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 02666.html

What a surprise.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

And another Tory policy found to be racist by the high court.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 02666.html

What a surprise.

Once more that just shows your Ultra-liberal views.
Having actually read the piece it is easily apparent that any "Racist behaviour" is being implemented by individuals who misinterpret the policy. Only an idiot, including the judge in question, can interpret illegal immigrant in a racist manner: what do you mean? How can whites can be illegal immigrants!!!
The Tory policy is designed to root out ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. It clearly is not racist per se.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

And another Tory policy found to be racist by the high court.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 02666.html

What a surprise.

Once more that just shows your Ultra-liberal views.
Having actually read the piece it is easily apparent that any "Racist behaviour" is being implemented by individuals who misinterpret the policy. Only an idiot, including the judge in question, can interpret illegal immigrant in a racist manner: what do you mean? How can whites can be illegal immigrants!!!
The Tory policy is designed to root out ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. It clearly is not racist per se.

Now this is what you'd call racism:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ement.html

[BWFC_Insane]

And another Tory policy found to be racist by the high court.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 02666.html

What a surprise.

Once more that just shows your Ultra-liberal views.
Having actually read the piece it is easily apparent that any "Racist behaviour" is being implemented by individuals who misinterpret the policy. Only an idiot, including the judge in question, can interpret illegal immigrant in a racist manner: what do you mean? How can whites can be illegal immigrants!!!
The Tory policy is designed to root out ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. It clearly is not racist per se.

Mr Justice Spencer said the government’s own evaluation of Right to Rent “failed to consider discrimination on grounds of nationality at all, only on grounds of ethnicity”, even though it was a “logical and wholly predicable” consequence.

I guess if you're a racist, you will go along and defend racism. I am not a racist and will not defend it.

It comes to something when a high court says "racism was logical and wholly predictable" yet you take a different view...defending the indefensible is not a good look.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

And another Tory policy found to be racist by the high court.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 02666.html

What a surprise.

Once more that just shows your Ultra-liberal views.
Having actually read the piece it is easily apparent that any "Racist behaviour" is being implemented by individuals who misinterpret the policy. Only an idiot, including the judge in question, can interpret illegal immigrant in a racist manner: what do you mean? How can whites can be illegal immigrants!!!
The Tory policy is designed to root out ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. It clearly is not racist per se.

Mr Justice Spencer said the government’s own evaluation of Right to Rent “failed to consider discrimination on grounds of nationality at all, only on grounds of ethnicity”, even though it was a “logical and wholly predicable” consequence.

I guess if you're a racist, you will go along and defend racism. I am not a racist and will not defend it.

It comes to something when a high court says "racism was logical and wholly predictable" yet you take a different view...defending the indefensible is not a good look.

And that ^ is the sort of thing that is giving Universities in this country a bad name right now. You can bang on about it all you fxcking want, but basically you're just trying to shut down free speech.
Simply: anti-illegal immigrant and racist are NOT THE SAME FXCKING THING, no matter how much you cast aspersions.
I don't give one tiny fxck about how I look "in your mind".

[BWFC_Insane]

And another Tory policy found to be racist by the high court.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 02666.html

What a surprise.

Once more that just shows your Ultra-liberal views.
Having actually read the piece it is easily apparent that any "Racist behaviour" is being implemented by individuals who misinterpret the policy. Only an idiot, including the judge in question, can interpret illegal immigrant in a racist manner: what do you mean? How can whites can be illegal immigrants!!!
The Tory policy is designed to root out ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. It clearly is not racist per se.

Mr Justice Spencer said the government’s own evaluation of Right to Rent “failed to consider discrimination on grounds of nationality at all, only on grounds of ethnicity”, even though it was a “logical and wholly predicable” consequence.

I guess if you're a racist, you will go along and defend racism. I am not a racist and will not defend it.

It comes to something when a high court says "racism was logical and wholly predictable" yet you take a different view...defending the indefensible is not a good look.

And that ^ is the sort of thing that is giving Universities in this country a bad name right now. You can bang on about it all you fxcking want, but basically you're just trying to shut down free speech.
Simply: anti-illegal immigrant and racist are NOT THE SAME FXCKING THING, no matter how much you cast aspersions.
I don't give one tiny fxck about how I look "in your mind".

LOL. The old "free speech" argument. Never would have guessed.