The Politics Thread

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Who will you be voting for?

Labour
13
41%
Conservatives
12
38%
Liberal Democrats
2
6%
UK Independence Party (UKIP)
0
No votes
Green Party
3
9%
Plaid Cymru
0
No votes
Other
1
3%
Planet Hobo
1
3%
 
Total votes: 32

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu May 23, 2019 11:16 am

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"

Albert Einstein. :|
Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu May 23, 2019 11:32 am

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 10:57 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 10:06 am
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 9:54 am
I'm sure uncertainty doesn't help but you're ignoring the fact that our steel production has been declining for a generation, not just 2 years. As Malcs figures show, we now produce less than Egypt. I think they've faced a tad more uncertainty than we have these last few years!
Do you want to address Farage's pre referendum statement then? Is leaving the EU crucial to saving our steel industry? Or is it just another in a long list of lies?
Well I'm glad you've (sort of) acknowledged you were wrong for blaming Brexit for British steels historical problems.

I'm no defender or indeed supporter of Farage, other than we probably both voted leave and I'd say at best what he said sounds like an exaggeration. However, I would guess what he was referring to was that under the EU the industry was in terminal decline and their rules prevented the Govt bailing them out. EU or not, the industry was/is declining.
Firstly - British Steel themselves cited Brexit as the driving factor in the short term - with orders from the EU drying up. So lets be real here. We know British Steel has struggled over a long period - but the reason for the past few years and current insolvency is Brexit.

Secondly - why is the industry in Germany, France and Spain not in terminal decline? Those countries also pay higher subsidies than we do. Hence Farage uttered an out and out lie - yet nobody, even you, will just accept that and say "yep it was a massive lie". Its shocking.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Enoch » Thu May 23, 2019 12:12 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:53 pm
I do think it's a stretch to suggest throwing milkshakes or eggs is likely to lead to violence. I'm not aware of any examples of assassinations/political violence where obnoxious pranks have been a gateway to something more serious.

Section 87 of the The Environmental Protection Act (EPA) 1990 states that it is a criminal offence for a person to drop, throw down, leave or deposit litter in a public place. It carries a maximum fine of £2,500 and can be tried in a magistrate's court.

One wonders why no action was taken by the authorities.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Thu May 23, 2019 12:38 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:22 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 8:19 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 6:26 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 6:07 pm
I'm confused. Are you suggesting that, if as a country we'd voted remain, our steel industry would be thriving in the EU? Didn't Tata/British steel collapse 3 years ago?
British Steel is in its current mess because of Brexit. Orders from the EU have dried up as a result of future uncertainty. Farage lied because he pretended the EU blocked subsidy when in fact subsidies in Germany and France for their industries were far higher than ours.

Will those that voted for Brexit ever take responsibility for their actions? Get up to Scunthorpe and apologise to those who are now worryied sick for their futures. Absolutely no chance though. Brexit was sold on lie after lie. And as each lie becomes unbearably apparent just more lies are told. It really is the biggest national disgrace imagineable.
You see I just can't buy that.

3 years ago the steel works at Port Talbot had to close due to what was reported to them being unable to compete with Chinese imports. The company in Scunthorpe was bought for a quid it was that much of a basket case.

If the whole Brexit issue does have anything to do with it, perhaps it's the uncertainty about what will happen once we finally decide whether to leave or not.

Will you be going up to Scunthorpe to apologise for yours and other remainers playing a large part in all this uncertainty?
Had we remained there’d be no uncertainty and EU countries wouldn’t be cancelling orders. It’s really that simple.

Even now you can’t accept it. Project fear my arse.
The reason why British Steel is in the shit is because the EU does not allow, (NOT ALLOW) national governments to subsidise the industry... Meanwhile in the US, China, India and other steel producers, national governments are allowed, indeed do, subsidise the industry.
That is why Farage said what he said. Rather than a liar, it would appear he was a prophet, AS WE HAVEN'T LEFT THE EU, AND BRISTISH STEEL STILL CANNOT BE SUBSIDISED, BY EU DIKTAT.
You really are demented.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu May 23, 2019 1:05 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 12:38 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:22 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 8:19 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 6:26 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 6:07 pm
I'm confused. Are you suggesting that, if as a country we'd voted remain, our steel industry would be thriving in the EU? Didn't Tata/British steel collapse 3 years ago?
British Steel is in its current mess because of Brexit. Orders from the EU have dried up as a result of future uncertainty. Farage lied because he pretended the EU blocked subsidy when in fact subsidies in Germany and France for their industries were far higher than ours.

Will those that voted for Brexit ever take responsibility for their actions? Get up to Scunthorpe and apologise to those who are now worryied sick for their futures. Absolutely no chance though. Brexit was sold on lie after lie. And as each lie becomes unbearably apparent just more lies are told. It really is the biggest national disgrace imagineable.
You see I just can't buy that.

3 years ago the steel works at Port Talbot had to close due to what was reported to them being unable to compete with Chinese imports. The company in Scunthorpe was bought for a quid it was that much of a basket case.

If the whole Brexit issue does have anything to do with it, perhaps it's the uncertainty about what will happen once we finally decide whether to leave or not.

Will you be going up to Scunthorpe to apologise for yours and other remainers playing a large part in all this uncertainty?
Had we remained there’d be no uncertainty and EU countries wouldn’t be cancelling orders. It’s really that simple.

Even now you can’t accept it. Project fear my arse.
The reason why British Steel is in the shit is because the EU does not allow, (NOT ALLOW) national governments to subsidise the industry... Meanwhile in the US, China, India and other steel producers, national governments are allowed, indeed do, subsidise the industry.
That is why Farage said what he said. Rather than a liar, it would appear he was a prophet, AS WE HAVEN'T LEFT THE EU, AND BRISTISH STEEL STILL CANNOT BE SUBSIDISED, BY EU DIKTAT.
You really are demented.
Hilarious but wrong.

https://www.ft.com/content/d91c122c-f82 ... 683b5e52db

The steel industries in Germany are stronger than the 60's. Same in Spain. France is largely unchanged too.

50% of BS's orders were from the EU and most of those are being cancelled over Brexit. It was a demonstrable lie. End of.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Thu May 23, 2019 1:11 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:05 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 12:38 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:22 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 8:19 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 6:26 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 6:07 pm
I'm confused. Are you suggesting that, if as a country we'd voted remain, our steel industry would be thriving in the EU? Didn't Tata/British steel collapse 3 years ago?
British Steel is in its current mess because of Brexit. Orders from the EU have dried up as a result of future uncertainty. Farage lied because he pretended the EU blocked subsidy when in fact subsidies in Germany and France for their industries were far higher than ours.

Will those that voted for Brexit ever take responsibility for their actions? Get up to Scunthorpe and apologise to those who are now worryied sick for their futures. Absolutely no chance though. Brexit was sold on lie after lie. And as each lie becomes unbearably apparent just more lies are told. It really is the biggest national disgrace imagineable.
You see I just can't buy that.

3 years ago the steel works at Port Talbot had to close due to what was reported to them being unable to compete with Chinese imports. The company in Scunthorpe was bought for a quid it was that much of a basket case.

If the whole Brexit issue does have anything to do with it, perhaps it's the uncertainty about what will happen once we finally decide whether to leave or not.

Will you be going up to Scunthorpe to apologise for yours and other remainers playing a large part in all this uncertainty?
Had we remained there’d be no uncertainty and EU countries wouldn’t be cancelling orders. It’s really that simple.

Even now you can’t accept it. Project fear my arse.
The reason why British Steel is in the shit is because the EU does not allow, (NOT ALLOW) national governments to subsidise the industry... Meanwhile in the US, China, India and other steel producers, national governments are allowed, indeed do, subsidise the industry.
That is why Farage said what he said. Rather than a liar, it would appear he was a prophet, AS WE HAVEN'T LEFT THE EU, AND BRISTISH STEEL STILL CANNOT BE SUBSIDISED, BY EU DIKTAT.
You really are demented.
Hilarious but wrong.

https://www.ft.com/content/d91c122c-f82 ... 683b5e52db

The steel industries in Germany are stronger than the 60's. Same in Spain. France is largely unchanged too.

50% of BS's orders were from the EU and most of those are being cancelled over Brexit. It was a demonstrable lie. End of.
Do fxck off...

BBC News - Can the UK help the steel industry under EU rules?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35933904

Answer: No we can't.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu May 23, 2019 1:15 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:11 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:05 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 12:38 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:22 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 8:19 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 6:26 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 6:07 pm
I'm confused. Are you suggesting that, if as a country we'd voted remain, our steel industry would be thriving in the EU? Didn't Tata/British steel collapse 3 years ago?
British Steel is in its current mess because of Brexit. Orders from the EU have dried up as a result of future uncertainty. Farage lied because he pretended the EU blocked subsidy when in fact subsidies in Germany and France for their industries were far higher than ours.

Will those that voted for Brexit ever take responsibility for their actions? Get up to Scunthorpe and apologise to those who are now worryied sick for their futures. Absolutely no chance though. Brexit was sold on lie after lie. And as each lie becomes unbearably apparent just more lies are told. It really is the biggest national disgrace imagineable.
You see I just can't buy that.

3 years ago the steel works at Port Talbot had to close due to what was reported to them being unable to compete with Chinese imports. The company in Scunthorpe was bought for a quid it was that much of a basket case.

If the whole Brexit issue does have anything to do with it, perhaps it's the uncertainty about what will happen once we finally decide whether to leave or not.

Will you be going up to Scunthorpe to apologise for yours and other remainers playing a large part in all this uncertainty?
Had we remained there’d be no uncertainty and EU countries wouldn’t be cancelling orders. It’s really that simple.

Even now you can’t accept it. Project fear my arse.
The reason why British Steel is in the shit is because the EU does not allow, (NOT ALLOW) national governments to subsidise the industry... Meanwhile in the US, China, India and other steel producers, national governments are allowed, indeed do, subsidise the industry.
That is why Farage said what he said. Rather than a liar, it would appear he was a prophet, AS WE HAVEN'T LEFT THE EU, AND BRISTISH STEEL STILL CANNOT BE SUBSIDISED, BY EU DIKTAT.
You really are demented.
Hilarious but wrong.

https://www.ft.com/content/d91c122c-f82 ... 683b5e52db

The steel industries in Germany are stronger than the 60's. Same in Spain. France is largely unchanged too.

50% of BS's orders were from the EU and most of those are being cancelled over Brexit. It was a demonstrable lie. End of.
Do fxck off...

BBC News - Can the UK help the steel industry under EU rules?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35933904
Germany found a way. Also the main EU country who supported state subsidy restrictions?

Also have another guess...which country blocked plans for tariffs on Chinese steel....

Finally - the collapse is predicated on lost EU orders - whose fault is that?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Thu May 23, 2019 1:19 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:15 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:11 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:05 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 12:38 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:22 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 8:19 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 6:26 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 6:07 pm
I'm confused. Are you suggesting that, if as a country we'd voted remain, our steel industry would be thriving in the EU? Didn't Tata/British steel collapse 3 years ago?
British Steel is in its current mess because of Brexit. Orders from the EU have dried up as a result of future uncertainty. Farage lied because he pretended the EU blocked subsidy when in fact subsidies in Germany and France for their industries were far higher than ours.

Will those that voted for Brexit ever take responsibility for their actions? Get up to Scunthorpe and apologise to those who are now worryied sick for their futures. Absolutely no chance though. Brexit was sold on lie after lie. And as each lie becomes unbearably apparent just more lies are told. It really is the biggest national disgrace imagineable.
You see I just can't buy that.

3 years ago the steel works at Port Talbot had to close due to what was reported to them being unable to compete with Chinese imports. The company in Scunthorpe was bought for a quid it was that much of a basket case.

If the whole Brexit issue does have anything to do with it, perhaps it's the uncertainty about what will happen once we finally decide whether to leave or not.

Will you be going up to Scunthorpe to apologise for yours and other remainers playing a large part in all this uncertainty?
Had we remained there’d be no uncertainty and EU countries wouldn’t be cancelling orders. It’s really that simple.

Even now you can’t accept it. Project fear my arse.
The reason why British Steel is in the shit is because the EU does not allow, (NOT ALLOW) national governments to subsidise the industry... Meanwhile in the US, China, India and other steel producers, national governments are allowed, indeed do, subsidise the industry.
That is why Farage said what he said. Rather than a liar, it would appear he was a prophet, AS WE HAVEN'T LEFT THE EU, AND BRISTISH STEEL STILL CANNOT BE SUBSIDISED, BY EU DIKTAT.
You really are demented.
Hilarious but wrong.

https://www.ft.com/content/d91c122c-f82 ... 683b5e52db

The steel industries in Germany are stronger than the 60's. Same in Spain. France is largely unchanged too.

50% of BS's orders were from the EU and most of those are being cancelled over Brexit. It was a demonstrable lie. End of.
Do fxck off...

BBC News - Can the UK help the steel industry under EU rules?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35933904
Germany found a way. Also the main EU country who supported state subsidy restrictions?

Also have another guess...which country blocked plans for tariffs on Chinese steel....

Finally - the collapse is predicated on lost EU orders - whose fault is that?
The EU's :conf: ...and Thatcher.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Prufrock » Thu May 23, 2019 2:43 pm

Screenshot_20190523-143855~2.png
Screenshot_20190523-143855~2.png (557.4 KiB) Viewed 2039 times
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by malcd1 » Thu May 23, 2019 2:47 pm

I also think the decline in the steel industry follows the car industry in this country. The car industry that has moved to other parts of Europe with the help of subsidies from the EU. The car industry that needs steel that is no longer made in this country.

Brexit will probably finish off quicker what is left of the car manufacturing industry for good but again it is something that has been happening for decades not a short term issues.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Thu May 23, 2019 3:21 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 2:43 pm
Screenshot_20190523-143855~2.png
Don't get it. Is that funny? Ironic? Piss taking? Social commentary?
What does it mean? Genuinely not a clue.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Thu May 23, 2019 4:53 pm

So why is this? : "including one Irish family in Liverpool who said they were denied the right to vote even though Irish citizens are treated like British citizens and can vote in all elections without any special forms."

Why the fxck are Irish citizens treated like British citizens?
The cxnts had a revolution and overthrew our 'rule'. They obtained independence .. and still they suck on the teat of British democracy. Hypocrites. You're Irish, fxck off back to your own country to vote...
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Dujon » Fri May 24, 2019 3:06 am

I cannot comment on the first bit, Spotty, as I don't know your local rules. For instance, I'm not an Australian citizen but am what is termed a Permanent Resident. I am, however, given the privileges accorded to natural or naturalised citizens. Of course there is one down side; should I commit a heinous crime I can be deported.

Perhaps this 'Irish family' took the 'without special forms' too literally and didn't enrol themselves.

In what context did the quote snippet you posted reside?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri May 24, 2019 8:41 am

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 4:53 pm
So why is this? : "including one Irish family in Liverpool who said they were denied the right to vote even though Irish citizens are treated like British citizens and can vote in all elections without any special forms."

Why the fxck are Irish citizens treated like British citizens?
The cxnts had a revolution and overthrew our 'rule'. They obtained independence .. and still they suck on the teat of British democracy. Hypocrites. You're Irish, fxck off back to your own country to vote...
EU citizens can vote in their country of residence in the EU Parliamentary elections.....

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by jimbo » Fri May 24, 2019 10:42 am

So, Theresa May’s officially going. The worrying thing now is how the vote of a few thousand tory members is going to choose our next prime minister and hugely influence the most important political situation in our lifetime. Hardly the best example of democratic process.

Also enjoying all the Tory MPs coming out saying how sad it is that she’s leaving!

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri May 24, 2019 10:49 am

jimbo wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:42 am
So, Theresa May’s officially going. The worrying thing now is how the vote of a few thousand tory members is going to choose our next prime minister and hugely influence the most important political situation in our lifetime. Hardly the best example of democratic process.

Also enjoying all the Tory MPs coming out saying how sad it is that she’s leaving!
I think such events should probably automatically trigger general elections. When Blair passed onto Brown for example - that in my view needs a new public mandate not just carrying on.....

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Fri May 24, 2019 11:37 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:49 am
jimbo wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:42 am
So, Theresa May’s officially going. The worrying thing now is how the vote of a few thousand tory members is going to choose our next prime minister and hugely influence the most important political situation in our lifetime. Hardly the best example of democratic process.

Also enjoying all the Tory MPs coming out saying how sad it is that she’s leaving!
I think such events should probably automatically trigger general elections. When Blair passed onto Brown for example - that in my view needs a new public mandate not just carrying on.....
I can see why people say this, but the composition of the House of Commons is unchanged, and we merely vote in an MP. We don't vote in a PM, MPs select a PM.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Fri May 24, 2019 11:39 am

Even her resignation is a catastrophe. She's announcing she will resign on 7th June. But she'll still be PM for at least a month after that. So why not fxcking resign NOW and still be PM for six weeks after now????
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri May 24, 2019 11:42 am

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 11:37 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:49 am
jimbo wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:42 am
So, Theresa May’s officially going. The worrying thing now is how the vote of a few thousand tory members is going to choose our next prime minister and hugely influence the most important political situation in our lifetime. Hardly the best example of democratic process.

Also enjoying all the Tory MPs coming out saying how sad it is that she’s leaving!
I think such events should probably automatically trigger general elections. When Blair passed onto Brown for example - that in my view needs a new public mandate not just carrying on.....
I can see why people say this, but the composition of the House of Commons is unchanged, and we merely vote in an MP. We don't vote in a PM, MPs select a PM.
That is true and is of course the reason why it isn't the case. But lets take a scenario here (one that isn't happening now but isn't beyond the bounds of possibility) that the Tories voted for an arch remainer as leader. Who revoked article 50 with parliament's support - which would be quite likely in those circumstances....

I know that won't happen but the point is that when governments change so does policy direction and without a public mandate or assessing the strength of the mandate (when May asked she was shown she had at best the weakest of weak mandates) -you run the risk of runaway governments/parliaments.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri May 24, 2019 11:42 am

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 11:39 am
Even her resignation is a catastrophe. She's announcing she will resign on 7th June. But she'll still be PM for at least a month after that. So why not fxcking resign NOW and still be PM for six weeks after now????
Cos the Tories don't want their leadership election taking place during Trump's visit!

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