The Politics Thread

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Who will you be voting for?

Labour
12
40%
Conservatives
11
37%
Liberal Democrats
2
7%
UK Independence Party (UKIP)
0
No votes
Green Party
3
10%
Plaid Cymru
0
No votes
Other
1
3%
Planet Hobo
1
3%
 
Total votes: 30

Burnden Paddock
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Burnden Paddock » Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:15 pm

Enoch wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:56 pm
LeverEnd wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:29 pm
Well quite, hence the need for the new party that Enoch and I are going to found. :D

How could we possibly fail!

Your free beer for all policy looks to be a winner. I’ll vote for you!

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Enoch » Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:13 am

Burnden Paddock wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:15 pm
Enoch wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:56 pm
LeverEnd wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:29 pm
Well quite, hence the need for the new party that Enoch and I are going to found. :D

How could we possibly fail!

Your free beer for all policy looks to be a winner. I’ll vote for you!

We may well find a roll for you, Mr. Someone has to go to the bar.
.

I see that annoying prick that's been outside Parliament for the past couple of years or so did well in the election.

Standing as a Liberal Democrat in Cynon Valley, he came in 6th of 7 candidates with 949 votes, 3.1% of the total vote and lost his deposit. His response to this ringing endorsement was to say the fight goes on. He'll be back to annoying everyone this week. He may well be liberal but clearly the word democrat passed him by.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:33 am

TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 4:14 pm
Lesson Number One: If what the last government left behind was of any use, there'd be no need to change it. Let's not pretend anybody has been ousted unfairly or that magic dust is a buyable commodity. Time will, as ever, tell some sort of a tale. The carousel starts up here.
We've just re-elected the same government. Can I ask what you think is being "ousted unfairly"?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Enoch » Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:49 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:33 am
We've just re-elected the same government.
:lol:

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:34 am

Enoch wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:49 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:33 am
We've just re-elected the same government.
:lol:
The same party is in number 10 as has been for the last 9 years. The front bench could be identical if that party leader chooses it to be. By every definition that is "the same government".

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Hoboh » Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:32 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:34 am
Enoch wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:49 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:33 am
We've just re-elected the same government.
:lol:
The same party is in number 10 as has been for the last 9 years. The front bench could be identical if that party leader chooses it to be. By every definition that is "the same government".
No it is not, I was waiting for the loony left pedantic view to surface, tbf I thought Corbyn, Mcdonnell and the Thornberry reasons they lost had it in the bag :D
My take

Labour, too many promises alongside people waking up to the fact it ain't just money that's wrong with the NHS, dodgy position on Brexit and a terrorist loving PM candidate.

Lib Dems, Brexit policy but much. much worse the all about me Jo Swinson allied to doing dodgy deals with other parties most normal folk wouldn't touch with a barge pole.

Not hard to understand,
2016, leave

Euro elections, leave

2019 general election, We are not telling you anymore.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:42 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:32 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:34 am
Enoch wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:49 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:33 am
We've just re-elected the same government.
:lol:
The same party is in number 10 as has been for the last 9 years. The front bench could be identical if that party leader chooses it to be. By every definition that is "the same government".
No it is not, I was waiting for the loony left pedantic view to surface, tbf I thought Corbyn, Mcdonnell and the Thornberry reasons they lost had it in the bag :D
My take

Labour, too many promises alongside people waking up to the fact it ain't just money that's wrong with the NHS, dodgy position on Brexit and a terrorist loving PM candidate.

Lib Dems, Brexit policy but much. much worse the all about me Jo Swinson allied to doing dodgy deals with other parties most normal folk wouldn't touch with a barge pole.

Not hard to understand,
2016, leave

Euro elections, leave

2019 general election, We are not telling you anymore.
Can you explain how on earth it is a different government?

I'd also point out that more people voted for remain parties than Brexit ones. We have a FPTP system and therefore the government elected will take us out. But regardless the government today are the same one as this time last week. The same party is in government. I find it bizarre how you could suggest otherwise?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by TANGODANCER » Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:57 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:33 am
TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 4:14 pm
Lesson Number One: If what the last government left behind was of any use, there'd be no need to change it. Let's not pretend anybody has been ousted unfairly or that magic dust is a buyable commodity. Time will, as ever, tell some sort of a tale. The carousel starts up here.
We've just re-elected the same government. Can I ask what you think is being "ousted unfairly"?
Oh, I thought I rather said the opposite? Silly me... :(
The wisest and the best of men, nay, the wisest and best of their actions, may be rendered ridiculous by a person whose first object in life is a joke...Darcy. Pride and Prejudice.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Hoboh » Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:31 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:42 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:32 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:34 am
Enoch wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:49 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:33 am
We've just re-elected the same government.
:lol:
The same party is in number 10 as has been for the last 9 years. The front bench could be identical if that party leader chooses it to be. By every definition that is "the same government".
No it is not, I was waiting for the loony left pedantic view to surface, tbf I thought Corbyn, Mcdonnell and the Thornberry reasons they lost had it in the bag :D
My take

Labour, too many promises alongside people waking up to the fact it ain't just money that's wrong with the NHS, dodgy position on Brexit and a terrorist loving PM candidate.

Lib Dems, Brexit policy but much. much worse the all about me Jo Swinson allied to doing dodgy deals with other parties most normal folk wouldn't touch with a barge pole.

Not hard to understand,
2016, leave

Euro elections, leave

2019 general election, We are not telling you anymore.
Can you explain how on earth it is a different government?

I'd also point out that more people voted for remain parties than Brexit ones. We have a FPTP system and therefore the government elected will take us out. But regardless the government today are the same one as this time last week. The same party is in government. I find it bizarre how you could suggest otherwise?
Oh please give it a rest
No Hammond, Gauke, Grieve, Rudd, Morgan, Stewart, Soubry etc all ministers until the last few months, gone.
FPTP works PR only works where you cannot put a fag paper between the political police's of the parties involved, Brexit and stalemate in Parliament should warn what would happen, nothing.
Nearly a third of the wining parties MP's are new a new manifesto new cabinet approaching and nothings changed? Give it a rest looks like not much is going to change in your loved socialist party if momentum and Marxists have their way.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:27 pm

Downing Street says there will be a minor cabinet reshuffle later.
May the bridges I burn light your way

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:44 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:31 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:42 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:32 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:34 am
Enoch wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:49 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:33 am
We've just re-elected the same government.
:lol:
The same party is in number 10 as has been for the last 9 years. The front bench could be identical if that party leader chooses it to be. By every definition that is "the same government".
No it is not, I was waiting for the loony left pedantic view to surface, tbf I thought Corbyn, Mcdonnell and the Thornberry reasons they lost had it in the bag :D
My take

Labour, too many promises alongside people waking up to the fact it ain't just money that's wrong with the NHS, dodgy position on Brexit and a terrorist loving PM candidate.

Lib Dems, Brexit policy but much. much worse the all about me Jo Swinson allied to doing dodgy deals with other parties most normal folk wouldn't touch with a barge pole.

Not hard to understand,
2016, leave

Euro elections, leave

2019 general election, We are not telling you anymore.
Can you explain how on earth it is a different government?

I'd also point out that more people voted for remain parties than Brexit ones. We have a FPTP system and therefore the government elected will take us out. But regardless the government today are the same one as this time last week. The same party is in government. I find it bizarre how you could suggest otherwise?
Oh please give it a rest
No Hammond, Gauke, Grieve, Rudd, Morgan, Stewart, Soubry etc all ministers until the last few months, gone.
FPTP works PR only works where you cannot put a fag paper between the political police's of the parties involved, Brexit and stalemate in Parliament should warn what would happen, nothing.
Nearly a third of the wining parties MP's are new a new manifesto new cabinet approaching and nothings changed? Give it a rest looks like not much is going to change in your loved socialist party if momentum and Marxists have their way.
But none of those were in government positions last week - nor have some of those been since Cameron was PM.

The point is that we elected the Tories for the 4th time in a row. It isn't a change. It isn't new.

And since being elected with a big majority and being able to do whatever he wants Boris has spent the first few days trying to stress he is a one nation Conservative - just like Cameron and May and Rudd etc...be interesting to see how divergent to them he really is or wants to be. I have a suspicion.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Enoch » Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:26 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:27 pm
Downing Street says there will be a minor cabinet reshuffle later.
Thank fu*ck for that, just so long as we don't end up with the same bunch of tossers.

:D

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:56 pm

Enoch wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:26 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:27 pm
Downing Street says there will be a minor cabinet reshuffle later.
Thank fu*ck for that, just so long as we don't end up with the same bunch of tossers.

:D
:D

By the looks of it he's just appointing new ministers for Culture and for Wales
May the bridges I burn light your way

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Enoch » Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:15 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:56 pm
Enoch wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:26 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:27 pm
Downing Street says there will be a minor cabinet reshuffle later.
Thank fu*ck for that, just so long as we don't end up with the same bunch of tossers.

:D
:D

By the looks of it he's just appointing new ministers for Culture and for Wales
With a big shake up post Jan 31st one would imagine.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Hoboh » Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:54 pm

Enoch wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:15 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:56 pm
Enoch wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:26 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:27 pm
Downing Street says there will be a minor cabinet reshuffle later.
Thank fu*ck for that, just so long as we don't end up with the same bunch of tossers.

:D
:D

By the looks of it he's just appointing new ministers for Culture and for Wales
With a big shake up post Jan 31st one would imagine.
I believe a large reshuffle is coming in February up to a third of the cabinet is expected to be axed then.
Bwfci I know you hate anything Tory but at least give the bloke a chance at least like Corbyn he ain't got one foot in the grave.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:29 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:54 pm
Enoch wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:15 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:56 pm
Enoch wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:26 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:27 pm
Downing Street says there will be a minor cabinet reshuffle later.
Thank fu*ck for that, just so long as we don't end up with the same bunch of tossers.

:D
:D

By the looks of it he's just appointing new ministers for Culture and for Wales
With a big shake up post Jan 31st one would imagine.
I believe a large reshuffle is coming in February up to a third of the cabinet is expected to be axed then.
Bwfci I know you hate anything Tory but at least give the bloke a chance at least like Corbyn he ain't got one foot in the grave.
They’ve had 9 years. Not like that isn’t a chance is it? The fact that they were up against the worst Labour opposition in history and managed to somehow plant the greatest of lies that another 5 years of the same represents change doesn’t really impress me.

I see through Johnson, his web of lies, duplicity and con trick. I hope he now reverses back to a one nation Tory position which is where I suspect he is most comfortable and where I suspect he believes he needs to be. But let’s see what he does. First priority has to be the NHS that is now officially in its worst position since records began. It needs urgent work there.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:29 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:31 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:42 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:32 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:34 am
Enoch wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:49 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:33 am
We've just re-elected the same government.
:lol:
The same party is in number 10 as has been for the last 9 years. The front bench could be identical if that party leader chooses it to be. By every definition that is "the same government".
No it is not, I was waiting for the loony left pedantic view to surface, tbf I thought Corbyn, Mcdonnell and the Thornberry reasons they lost had it in the bag :D
My take

Labour, too many promises alongside people waking up to the fact it ain't just money that's wrong with the NHS, dodgy position on Brexit and a terrorist loving PM candidate.

Lib Dems, Brexit policy but much. much worse the all about me Jo Swinson allied to doing dodgy deals with other parties most normal folk wouldn't touch with a barge pole.

Not hard to understand,
2016, leave

Euro elections, leave

2019 general election, We are not telling you anymore.
Can you explain how on earth it is a different government?

I'd also point out that more people voted for remain parties than Brexit ones. We have a FPTP system and therefore the government elected will take us out. But regardless the government today are the same one as this time last week. The same party is in government. I find it bizarre how you could suggest otherwise?
Oh please give it a rest
No Hammond, Gauke, Grieve, Rudd, Morgan, Stewart, Soubry etc all ministers until the last few months, gone.
FPTP works PR only works where you cannot put a fag paper between the political police's of the parties involved, Brexit and stalemate in Parliament should warn what would happen, nothing.
Nearly a third of the wining parties MP's are new a new manifesto new cabinet approaching and nothings changed? Give it a rest looks like not much is going to change in your loved socialist party if momentum and Marxists have their way.
Ouch. Boris was so keen to keep Morgan as Culture secretary even though she stepped down as an MP he gave her a peerage so she could remain....

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Hoboh » Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:57 pm

Not exactly a new thing is it though, making someone a peer to be in the cabinet. For what its worth you know and if you cannot rember my view on the upper chamber I'll repeat it, I would abolish it.
See on the NHS why can you not be honest for a change and admit the reason it is overstretched is not all about money but for all sorts of reasons, over demand the biggest one.
I'm not going to play political games like som do with the NHS but it's far more than about cash that is the problem.
My own gut feeling has always been that certain utilities like power and water should be under government control because they are in the national interest but in today's age that time has passed without penalizing pension funds etc. and incurring massive financial and social costs.
The only way forward is controlled and regulated capitalism which as far as I can see is what the Chinese were trying but they couldn't ditch most of the old ways and fell into the western/Marxist trap of some being more equal than others or just plain greedy.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:38 am

Hoboh wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:57 pm
Not exactly a new thing is it though, making someone a peer to be in the cabinet. For what its worth you know and if you cannot rember my view on the upper chamber I'll repeat it, I would abolish it.
See on the NHS why can you not be honest for a change and admit the reason it is overstretched is not all about money but for all sorts of reasons, over demand the biggest one.
I'm not going to play political games like som do with the NHS but it's far more than about cash that is the problem.
My own gut feeling has always been that certain utilities like power and water should be under government control because they are in the national interest but in today's age that time has passed without penalizing pension funds etc. and incurring massive financial and social costs.
The only way forward is controlled and regulated capitalism which as far as I can see is what the Chinese were trying but they couldn't ditch most of the old ways and fell into the western/Marxist trap of some being more equal than others or just plain greedy.
Good post that Hobes. The thing with the NHS it is a complex set of reasons. However, we know Tory governments starve it in many ways, financially but also through the way they run it. It was in very good shape before the past 9 years - not perfect but it met the majority of its targets.

I will say I don't think the Corbyn Labour lot were safe managers of it either. So I will see what Boris and his mob do - the views many of his front bench have expressed re the NHS historically do worry me somewhat.

The problem with private/public ownership is balance. The trains being a good example - privatization has failed yet the government have spent years (since Cameron's early days) saying that the Northern franchises are failing yet done nowt about it cos they're in the palms of their rich mates. Take the franchises away - and you bet service would improve. Re-nationalising them for a time might be sensible. Re-nationalising energy etc was as you say ridiculous expense for virtually no gain.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Enoch » Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:24 pm

Enjoyed watching Ms Wilson, newly elected Lib Dem MP, telling us all she is taking up her seat in Westminster to 'Stop Brexit'

What does it take!

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