The Politics Thread

[BWFC_Insane]

This is all a bit pointless to be honest. It's like Sunday Paper journalism. Obama and McCain probably had an ideological start to their political lives - many who follow that path do, but strangely ideologies often held in the teens and twenties do tend to change over time into more rounded opinions. Obama maybe slightly left of centerist politics but the next Uncle Joe - I doubt it.

Similarly, one could look at McCain's history. Some would say he's a facist, plenty would point to his comments about hating "gooks" and still hating them (although he has better reason than most) pointing to him certainly posessing a streak of racism.

It would probably be a little easier instead of pointing to ideological conjecture from some time ago, if someone could highlight which of Obama's proposed "policies" are Marxist or which of McCain's are overtly Racist/Facist. Genreal mudslinging with no actual facts is unlikely to sway many I suspect..

Sadly the vast majority of the American voting public are swayed with these tactics!

[Worthy4England]

This is all a bit pointless to be honest. It's like Sunday Paper journalism. Obama and McCain probably had an ideological start to their political lives - many who follow that path do, but strangely ideologies often held in the teens and twenties do tend to change over time into more rounded opinions. Obama maybe slightly left of centerist politics but the next Uncle Joe - I doubt it.

Similarly, one could look at McCain's history. Some would say he's a facist, plenty would point to his comments about hating "gooks" and still hating them (although he has better reason than most) pointing to him certainly posessing a streak of racism.

It would probably be a little easier instead of pointing to ideological conjecture from some time ago, if someone could highlight which of Obama's proposed "policies" are Marxist or which of McCain's are overtly Racist/Facist. Genreal mudslinging with no actual facts is unlikely to sway many I suspect..

Sadly the vast majority of the American voting public are swayed with these tactics!

I'd already put an edit into the original to say just that.

[Prufrock]

You don't think Obama is a leftie?

And how have we let it become the conventional wisdom that McCain and Palin are 'nutjobs'? What marks them out as being so?

I think the appointment of Palin did have at least one plus for McCain, it made everyone forget how much of a big barrel of crazy he is too. 'gooks'? HONESTLY? Now i know the man suffered over the there, but my great gran still hated Germans because of the wars, and whilst i understood because of the familly etc she left, i wouldnt want someone that narrow minded, or even just mentally scarred in charge of anything. I spose i also find McCain's early Neo-facism much harder to let slide than Obama's early Marxism, because to me anyway, Marxism is far more easily defendable than Facism.

As for Palin, you dont think she's a raving mentalist? Pitbull and lipstick? Actually thinking she has some record in international politics. And without wanting to delve too deep into a sensitive subject, i wouldnt want anyone who actually beleives in Adam in Eve, in the face of overpowering scientific evidence, to be in charge of policing the world. George Bush was bad enough with his 'conversations' with god, but she's on a whole different level.

[Montreal Wanderer]

You don't think Obama is a leftie?

Is anyone in mainstream American politics, bar Nader, a leftie?

Yes - Obama is a Marxist.

Just because as a kid he knew Frank Marshall Davis (who died 20 years ago), PB? More guilt by association. He's a terrorist because he sat on a charity board with a professor who was once a Weatherman? He's a Muslim because of his middle name? He's a racist because his minister friend was? I thought you looked deeper than this.

I've never called him a terrorist, nor 'accused' him of being a muslim.

You want to look deeper? How about his strong ties with the New Party in the mid-90s? Or even just his public voting record and the passages in his books about 'economic justice' would be a start.

As for his minister 'friend'... this would be the 'friend' who married him and his wife, baptized his children, whom Obama describes in his book as his 'mentor' and 'spiritual guide'.

I know you did not accuse him of terrorism or being a Muslim - Palin played the terrorist card card on the basis he knew someone who was once a violent objector to Vietnam, and the Republicans have been slinging around the Muslim bit on the basis of his middle name alone. I was merely highlighting the guilt by association tactics of mudslinging. To call someone a communist in American politics is to attempt to destroy his credibility. You suggest the New Party is communist? I would think not - more like the left wing of the Democrats, who believed in more social democracy - yes, and economic justice. In Canada (and probably the UK) the Conservative Party accepts in universal health care, social security, etc. as a sacred trust. This is not exactly calling for a dictatorship of the proletariat. Yes. it would be the same minister friend who suddenly started spouting lunacy about 9/11 being payback for the wrong America had done - Obama was quick to denounce his views as utterly unacceptable. Can we be held accountable when our friend or someone we have admired suddenly starts spouting rubbish? Does the friendship mean we believe the same rubbish? Personally I don't think so but it is just my opinion.

[Hoboh]

We should look after our own interests and politics, sod the USA.
Proberbly half the back country hicks in the US think the UK is a city in Europe some where (if they've even heard of it!), do we really deserve back to back, wall to wall reports about puppets for the vested interests running for President?
It really is a soap opera they run over there, never any real politics, thats done behind closed doors with dodgy commitees.

[Montreal Wanderer]

As for Palin, you dont think she's a raving mentalist? Pitbull and lipstick? Actually thinking she has some record in international politics. And without wanting to delve too deep into a sensitive subject, i wouldnt want anyone who actually beleives in Adam in Eve, in the face of overpowering scientific evidence, to be in charge of policing the world. George Bush was bad enough with his 'conversations' with god, but she's on a whole different level.

Bush is a creationist too. You forgot to mention Palin tried to fire the city librarian - surely no more heinous crime than that.

[Horza]

No one votes for vice-presidents, her negatives are massive with independents, if there's any justice in the universe she should fade away for four years, reappearing only to lose Republican Pres candidacy for 2012.

Provided he doesn't kill an adorable kitten live on TV and drink its blood Obama has won this thing and there ain't a damn thing anyone can do about it.

[Montreal Wanderer]

No one votes for vice-presidents, her negatives are massive with independents, if there's any justice in the universe she should fade away for four years, reappearing only to lose Republican Pres candidacy for 2012.

Provided he doesn't kill an adorable kitten live on TV and drink its blood Obama has won this thing and there ain't a damn thing anyone can do about it.

They think more about VPs than they used to - especially when the presidential candidate is old and has skin cancer. They learned something from Agnew.

[Prufrock]

As for Palin, you dont think she's a raving mentalist? Pitbull and lipstick? Actually thinking she has some record in international politics. And without wanting to delve too deep into a sensitive subject, i wouldnt want anyone who actually beleives in Adam in Eve, in the face of overpowering scientific evidence, to be in charge of policing the world. George Bush was bad enough with his 'conversations' with god, but she's on a whole different level.

Bush is a creationist too. You forgot to mention Palin tried to fire the city librarian - surely no more heinous crime than that.

And you wouldn't want him in charge would you!!

[Prufrock]

We should look after our own interests and politics, sod the USA.
Proberbly half the back country hicks in the US think the UK is a city in Europe some where (if they've even heard of it!), do we really deserve back to back, wall to wall reports about puppets for the vested interests running for President?
It really is a soap opera they run over there, never any real politics, thats done behind closed doors with dodgy commitees.

'Fraid when this is an election to decide the most powerful man in the world, it kinda is important to a few folks hoboh.

[Montreal Wanderer]

We should look after our own interests and politics, sod the USA.
Proberbly half the back country hicks in the US think the UK is a city in Europe some where (if they've even heard of it!), do we really deserve back to back, wall to wall reports about puppets for the vested interests running for President?
It really is a soap opera they run over there, never any real politics, thats done behind closed doors with dodgy commitees.

'Fraid when this is an election to decide the most powerful man in the world, it kinda is important to a few folks hoboh.

Especially those with a 4000 mile undefended (and indefensible) border with the US.

[ratbert]

Economy aside, the election is also going to have consequences in terms of how the USA re-asserts its power in the face of strong Asian competition. The US won't own the 21st century like it owned the last.

The choice is between Republicans who'll pursue the same policies as before - trade protection and foreign military muscle flexing and not meeting the new internationalist challenges. Or a more open-minded, global facing Democrat who recognises that the world isn't the USA's to call the shots to anymore.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Economy aside, the election is also going to have consequences in terms of how the USA re-asserts its power in the face of strong Asian competition. The US won't own the 21st century like it owned the last.

The choice is between Republicans who'll pursue the same policies as before - trade protection and foreign military muscle flexing and not meeting the new internationalist challenges. Or a more open-minded, global facing Democrat who recognises that the world isn't the USA's to call the shots to anymore.

Unfortunately, Ratty, it is the American voter making that choice so the preference is not quite so clear cut as they might seem to an outsider. However, I think Obama has a big enough lead now unless he blows the last debate big time.

[Lord Kangana]

He's gonna need balls, determination and force of personality to achieve that. America is owned by big business, and for any politician to really make a mark they'll have to put more than a couple of noses out of joint. People who try to affect that kind of change tend to end up dead on the other side of the pond, or in the pockets and on the payrolls of said companies.

Expect a lone, psychologically deranged, politically dubious patsy to take a pop at him if he gets the job AND tries any serious reform. I'd put my house on it.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

'Economic justice' isn't a bad thing in itself - amongst other things it means different things to different people.

I was just looking for a shorthand way to describe things I have read from Obama that make me suspect that he's about as left wing as it gets in American politics

[Montreal Wanderer]

'Economic justice' isn't a bad thing in itself - amongst other things it means different things to different people.

I was just looking for a shorthand way to describe things I have read from Obama that make me suspect that he's about as left wing as it gets in American politics

Fair enough, but that is far from Marxism - indeed he is still likely right of centre as we understand it.

[Worthy4England]

'Economic justice' isn't a bad thing in itself - amongst other things it means different things to different people.

I was just looking for a shorthand way to describe things I have read from Obama that make me suspect that he's about as left wing as it gets in American politics

Which isn't normally very left wing by anyone elses standards, usually - sort of left of, right of centre. I'm not expecting big levels of support from China on the grounds they're ideological bedfellows.

[chester white]

Maybe we should email him this and ask where he ends up?

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

[email protected]

[Worthy4England]

Maybe we should email him this and ask where he ends up?

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

[email protected]

Thought I'd give it a whirl meself to be honest. two squares left and one square down from dead centre All this time I thought I was somewhere left of Uncle Joe and Ghandi

[Lord Kangana]

OOh, left libertarian, just past Gandhi.

Interesting little game. Do I have to wear flip-flops now?