The Politics Thread

[Hoboh]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... icans.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You know the more I see about some ex-politicians like this tosser I really start to wonder if a new world order is being assembled around us aka the Bilderbergers and their ilk.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Grayling is a total waste of oxygen, but I hope he is persuaded that his rule, not aimed a books specifically, is madness. http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/m ... -ban-books" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Books are surely the best route to rehabilitation and a rebuilt life?

This sounds a lot like a 'cruel and unusual' punishment, for those who like to think about these things in terms of human rights.

[Lord Kangana]

Seems a very bizarre conclusion to come to when simultaneously considering punishment and rehabilitation "I've got it, we'll ban books! That'll learn alright, and no mistake."

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Seems a very bizarre conclusion to come to when simultaneously considering punishment and rehabilitation "I've got it, we'll ban books! That'll learn alright, and no mistake."

As I say, it's not about books specifically, but I do hope that at the very least this is an unintended consequence that will be corrected.

[William the White]

I'm pretty sure it is an unintended consequence. We'll see, now they know it, and have a bunch of well known writers on their case, whether they will amend it.

The role of art, culture, drama in possible rehabilitation is well known. Writers in residence in prisons always have full classes. Drama groups, when these are allowed, also. Check out this brilliant film: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2177511/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And - edit - a UK experiment, one of a number: http://www.theguardian.com/stage/theatr ... ntry-music" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Prison life is occasionally dangerous, often difficult, often infantilising, but mostly it's just dreary, boring and slow. As a way of reforming law breakers it's all but hopeless.

But - along with books - some basic, consistent literacy and numeracy education would go a long way in giving options to offenders.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Grayling is a total waste of oxygen, but I hope he is persuaded that his rule, not aimed a books specifically, is madness. http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/m ... -ban-books" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Books are surely the best route to rehabilitation and a rebuilt life?

This sounds a lot like a 'cruel and unusual' punishment, for those who like to think about these things in terms of human rights.

Is it normal that the Lord High Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice should have no legal background at all?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Is it normal that the Lord High Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice should have no legal background at all?

Don't, Monty - it's not good for my blood pressure.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I'm pretty sure it is an unintended consequence. We'll see, now they know it, and have a bunch of well known writers on their case, whether they will amend it.

The role of art, culture, drama in possible rehabilitation is well known. Writers in residence in prisons always have full classes. Drama groups, when these are allowed, also. Check out this brilliant film: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2177511/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And - edit - a UK experiment, one of a number: http://www.theguardian.com/stage/theatr ... ntry-music" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Prison life is occasionally dangerous, often difficult, often infantilising, but mostly it's just dreary, boring and slow. As a way of reforming law breakers it's all but hopeless.

But - along with books - some basic, consistent literacy and numeracy education would go a long way in giving options to offenders.

There's a fascinating bit in Brian Sewell's autobiography in which he describes the appetite for highbrow art history slide classes amongst inmates at Brixton prison - they had to hold them in places like the gym and the chapel in the end. He enjoyed doing this so much he continued doing it way beyond the point at which it stopped making financial sense.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Is it normal that the Lord High Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice should have no legal background at all?

Don't, Monty - it's not good for my blood pressure.

Actually it was a serious question based on my own ignorance. Over here it would be quite unusual to have a Minister of Justice who was not a lawyer (the Justice Minister is also often Attorney General and we don't have Lord High Chancellors), However, the practice in the UK may be different, especially given some of the remarks on here about lawyers!.

[Beefheart]

So, the way I understand it prisoners aren't being banned from reading books. They have access to the prison libraries. What's not being allowed is for family/friends on the outside to send books to inmates.

[William the White]

So, the way I understand it prisoners aren't being banned from reading books. They have access to the prison libraries. What's not being allowed is for family/friends on the outside to send books to inmates.

Or prisoner support groups, charities, writers organisations.

The claim is made that prison libraries are so understocked prisoners may manage only one visit in two-three weeks and have very restricted access.

[Athers]

Is it normal that the Lord High Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice should have no legal background at all?

Don't, Monty - it's not good for my blood pressure.

Actually it was a serious question based on my own ignorance. Over here it would be quite unusual to have a Minister of Justice who was not a lawyer (the Justice Minister is also often Attorney General and we don't have Lord High Chancellors), However, the practice in the UK may be different, especially given some of the remarks on here about lawyers!.

It's seems rare that our MPs are technocrats though so I suppose it's no surprise we've got this situation - you don't see many doctors, lawyers, engineers, headteachers & so forth on the benches - just a load of them who have done PPE (Politics, Philosophy & Economics) and worked their way up from being advisors or think tank graduates.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Is it normal that the Lord High Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice should have no legal background at all?

Don't, Monty - it's not good for my blood pressure.

Actually it was a serious question based on my own ignorance. Over here it would be quite unusual to have a Minister of Justice who was not a lawyer (the Justice Minister is also often Attorney General and we don't have Lord High Chancellors), However, the practice in the UK may be different, especially given some of the remarks on here about lawyers!.

It seems we may have touched on this before:

viewtopic.php?p=771353#p771353" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... itain.html

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ma ... or-the-uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Its in one of those two.

Well there is this paragraph in the first one, in an article that is otherwise largely an eloquent explanation of why being out of the EU can be advantageous.

Because Norway is outside the EU, he points out, its processed fish products face high EU import tariffs - 12 per cent in the case of smoked salmon - like the country's agricultural products. In return, French cheese imports to Norway are taxed at 400 per cent.
Oil, gas and manufactured products can be traded freely with the EU, because EEA members submit to all the directives connected with the Single Market.

It seems that food and agriculture may be a special case.

There is nothing along these lines in the second article.

One point of order is that French cheese only becomes more expensive for Norwegians because their sovereign government has decided that that tariff is best for the country. They don't have to put tariffs on anything, no matter how the EU treats its smoked salmon (and fishing is an especially sensitive historical issue). So more expensive imports is not a logical certainty.

You keep asking 'Why would the EU give us access to that market if we weren't part of that club?'. The answer is very simple: reciprocal access to our market, which also important to them. Even I don't think that the main thing the EU gets from our membership is the thrill of a political union and the opportunity to meddle in our affairs.

The second goes on at length about the importance of the 'place at the table'. I ask for the millionth time - what are the examples of our getting our own way and shaping EU law in our favour, against the wishes of the other Member States?

To return to another question discussed previously: http://www.cityam.com/article/139571076 ... s-18-years" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"EACH time since 1996 that the UK has voted no to a proposal at the EU’s Council of Ministers the measure has gone on to become British law"

[Worthy4England]

That represents less than 2% of the total votes over the same period, on topics (generally) like agreement on the common organisation of the market in bananas (I kid you not) and advertising/sponsorship of tobacco products. There are a couple of more serious recurring themes around the overall budget and migration. On balance I suspect we must have voted for the generalities of these, more often than we've voted against over the period, generally because we've got to a position the government feels is broadly equitable. 2,800 times we've voted yes compared to 55 noes.

Feels a bit Daily Mail to me...

[Montreal Wanderer]

Is it normal that the Lord High Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice should have no legal background at all?

Don't, Monty - it's not good for my blood pressure.

Actually it was a serious question based on my own ignorance. Over here it would be quite unusual to have a Minister of Justice who was not a lawyer (the Justice Minister is also often Attorney General and we don't have Lord High Chancellors), However, the practice in the UK may be different, especially given some of the remarks on here about lawyers!.

It seems we may have touched on this before:

viewtopic.php?p=771353#p771353" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks - I either missed that or forgot it. Well, I'm glad it is not normal.

[William the White]

The government has now confirmed the continuation of the ban on books being sent to prisoners.

This is on 'security' grounds.

Presumably they are worried that books called 'How to escape from prison' will be sent in, or books with weapons concealed within the covers. Or drugs soaked into the corners of the pages. Or that a Collected Shakespeare has enough weight to serve as a lethal weapon.

They are almost certainly worried that reading will make the cons more intelligent than the screws. In this they are almost certainly correct.

[Hoboh]

Bloody liar Clegg!!!

The Lib Dem leader said three million jobs in Britain depended on the EU, arguing that multi-national companies would pull investment out of the UK if it left the EU.

Same as the three grand every household gets every year?

Feck off back under your stone, snake!

[Bruce Rioja]

This was a good bit - "In the Eastleigh byelection, Ukip said 29m Romanians and Bulgarians might come to the UK. But there aren't 29m Romanians and Bulgarians in those countries"

[Hoboh]

I know UKIP really need to get some of their facts right.
With the EU and the likes of Clegg there is no need to tell porkies or exagerate

They will shoot themselves.