The Politics Thread

[Worthy4England]

Defined benefit is not final salary. It just isn't. It's exactly what it says it is. A defined benefit. Final salary is also just that. Your final salary.

Career averaging, which is what most - though by no means all- of our public services are now paid under(I can go into tedious detail if you really want, but I'm guessing you'll just wriggle rather than saying 'ah sorry, didn't know that' so it'll be a fool's errand on my part) . It's not the same as final salary. I'll leave it up to you as to why that may be. It's not hard.

I ask most folks "when was the last time, you personally created a job, for a UK national." generally, I get the answer "never"...

I have no notion how this post to a mate on FB ended up here... Yes I have. Joseph Holts...

[BWFC_Insane]

Reports in the press of the Tories at Conservative party HQ thinking they had a 60 seat majority prior to the exit poll. Then when the poll was revealed a senior Tory being physically sick. Also of Murdoch attending the Times election night party and storming out after the exit poll was revealed.

Absolutely loving this.

[Harry Genshaw]

The public sector has significant advantages over the private sector, e.g. income, pensions and an expectation that each employee can take 4 weeks sick leave per annum without even being questioned by their management.

Huge swathes of this discussion is well above my head but I'm calling bulls*it on this statement

[Montreal Wanderer]

Defined benefit is not final salary. It just isn't. It's exactly what it says it is. A defined benefit. Final salary is also just that. Your final salary.

Career averaging, which is what most - though by no means all- of our public services are now paid under(I can go into tedious detail if you really want, but I'm guessing you'll just wriggle rather than saying 'ah sorry, didn't know that' so it'll be a fool's errand on my part) . It's not the same as final salary. I'll leave it up to you as to why that may be. It's not hard.

I ask most folks "when was the last time, you personally created a job, for a UK national." generally, I get the answer "never"...

I have no notion how this post to a mate on FB ended up here... Yes I have. Joseph Holts...

Reading it was a WTF moment for me....

[Worthy4England]

Aye, you and me both, Monty.

That is it sorta made sense in the FB thread with my mate... But here, clearly not!

[Worthy4England]

The public sector has significant advantages over the private sector, e.g. income, pensions and an expectation that each employee can take 4 weeks sick leave per annum without even being questioned by their management.

Huge swathes of this discussion is well above my head but I'm calling bulls*it on this statement

I spent 13 years in the public sector, I have no notion of heading back for the benefits described...

[Prufrock]

The public sector has significant advantages over the private sector, e.g. income, pensions and an expectation that each employee can take 4 weeks sick leave per annum without even being questioned by their management.

Huge swathes of this discussion is well above my head but I'm calling bulls*it on this statement

I think you might be right there!

[Hoboh]

Highly amusing how losers suddenly find the appeal of PR and the urge to sign petitions.

I await Gina Millers bid in the high court to get the result of the GE overturned The great unwashed have been out with their banners already, Faceachebook is probably in melt down and all the safe spaces are full up.

Corbyns charm and policies my arse, May was totally and utterly inept, Thatcher would have wiped the floor with Corbyn and his bunch of the deluded Bliar would have done the same to May before his arrogance and war crimes emerged.

[Bruce Rioja]

I voted Labour. If they want my vote next time they still have to earn it.

Interesting. I did vote in the end and voted Tory again, but don't for a minute believe that that was the forgone conclusion that you probably have it down as being. No party actually earned my vote and I was all up for not voting at all. In the end I found myself disagreeing with a few more of Labour's policies than than I did those of the Conservatives. What a shit basis upon which to cast a vote.

[BWFC_Insane]

I voted Labour. If they want my vote next time they still have to earn it.

Interesting. I did vote in the end and voted Tory again, but don't for a minute believe that that was the forgone conclusion that you probably have it down as being. No party actually earned my vote and I was all up for not voting at all. In the end I found myself disagreeing with a few more of Labour's policies than than I did those of the Conservatives. What a shit basis upon which to cast a vote.

My vote was very undecided through the campaign. I was never voting Tory, but I didn't want to endorse Corbyn. Through the campaign he did start to perform better and whilst some policies were batshit crazy others were definitely something I could back.

In the end my decision came down to the awful performance of May and some hat I consider, dangerous policies she was offering. I decided I had to vote to try and prevent a big majority...something I thought at the time was a vain hope.

[bedwetter2]

The public sector has significant advantages over the private sector, e.g. income, pensions and an expectation that each employee can take 4 weeks sick leave per annum without even being questioned by their management.

Huge swathes of this discussion is well above my head but I'm calling bulls*it on this statement

Plenty of research done on just these matters. Go look for it. I would recommend Unbiased.com for some info.

[Bruce Rioja]

The public sector has significant advantages over the private sector, e.g. income, pensions and an expectation that each employee can take 4 weeks sick leave per annum without even being questioned by their management.

Huge swathes of this discussion is well above my head but I'm calling bulls*it on this statement

Plenty of research done on just these matters. Go look for it. I would recommend Unbiased.com for some info.

We have the Bradford Factor at our place. You can find yourself on a verbal warning for having four separate days off sick.

Having worked in the public sector as a younger man, I do recall that nothing more than a brief, often bullshit, verbal excuse for absenteeism was all that was required. A guy I know well works for the local authority - he actually manages his sick days so that he can be fit to work Bank Holidays to claim however many times wages plus days off in lieu. This practice is apparently widespread. So next time Morris is banging on about what we can't afford due to Tory austerity, he may want to look a little closer to home.

[Prufrock]

imagine calling your website "unbiased.com". Incredible. Free foil hat with every purchase; 6 months 1/2 price for anyone who is also affiliated to freemenontheland.org.

4 weeks sick!!

"How're you doing Dave?"
"Not too bad now, mate. I've had a terrible cold though, but I think it was just one of those 24-day bugs".

[Harry Genshaw]

The public sector has significant advantages over the private sector, e.g. income, pensions and an expectation that each employee can take 4 weeks sick leave per annum without even being questioned by their management.

Huge swathes of this discussion is well above my head but I'm calling bulls*it on this statement

Plenty of research done on just these matters. Go look for it. I would recommend Unbiased.com for some info.

I don't need to look for it. I know it's bull. I've worked across several areas of the public sector and in none of those have any of them tolerated unexplained sickness absence. Not one.

[BWFC_Insane]

The public sector has significant advantages over the private sector, e.g. income, pensions and an expectation that each employee can take 4 weeks sick leave per annum without even being questioned by their management.

Huge swathes of this discussion is well above my head but I'm calling bulls*it on this statement

Plenty of research done on just these matters. Go look for it. I would recommend Unbiased.com for some info.

We have the Bradford Factor at our place. You can find yourself on a verbal warning for having four separate days off sick.

Having worked in the public sector as a younger man, I do recall that nothing more than a brief, often bullshit, verbal excuse for absenteeism was all that was required. A guy I know well works for the local authority - he actually manages his sick days so that he can be fit to work Bank Holidays to claim however many times wages plus days off in lieu. This practice is apparently widespread. So next time Morris is banging on about what we can't afford due to Tory austerity, he may want to look a little closer to home.

Think things are very different nowadays. Certainly NHS use Bradford factor. And think it goes far beyond verbal warnings for breaching it. Always thought it a nonsense myself. 5 years with no sickness absence then you just get unlucky in one year and are off 6 times...shouldn't be penalised.

Actually I think the way our work culture treats sickness is a joke in general. We have people coming into offices with nasty viruses, spreading it round.....

[Worthy4England]

The figures are published on the Ons website for last year public sector averaged 2.9% v 1.7% public/private... So for 217 Working days, that'd be 6.3 days per annum public v. 3.7 private.?

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlab ... ss-absence

[Bruce Rioja]

Think things are very different nowadays. Certainly NHS use Bradford factor. And think it goes far beyond verbal warnings for breaching it. Always thought it a nonsense myself. 5 years with no sickness absence then you just get unlucky in one year and are off 6 times...shouldn't be penalised.

Actually I think the way our work culture treats sickness is a joke in general. We have people coming into offices with nasty viruses, spreading it round.....

Oh yeah, it goes right the way through to dismissal for being genuinely ill. Our head of HR came from the NHS and brought it with her. Maybe it does weed out slackers in massive organisations, I don't know, but to introduce it to a company whose UK operation numbers 200 employees? Really?
And your exactly right - people come in with all sorts of nasty viruses because they daren't take the time off. Nett result, everybody else gets it.
And another thing. Me and my colleagues are kitted out so that we're quite literally able to work anywhere on earth, however, we're not allowed to work from home if any of us are under the weather because yon Bradford Factor can't factor in common sense. Sorry, I'm ranting now but it really is the one thing that truly 4ucks everybody off - me included.

[BWFC_Insane]

Think things are very different nowadays. Certainly NHS use Bradford factor. And think it goes far beyond verbal warnings for breaching it. Always thought it a nonsense myself. 5 years with no sickness absence then you just get unlucky in one year and are off 6 times...shouldn't be penalised.

Actually I think the way our work culture treats sickness is a joke in general. We have people coming into offices with nasty viruses, spreading it round.....

Oh yeah, it goes right the way through to dismissal for being genuinely ill. Our head of HR came from the NHS and brought it with her. Maybe it does weed out slackers in massive organisations, I don't know, but to introduce it to a company whose UK operation numbers 200 employees? Really?
And your exactly right - people come in with all sorts of nasty viruses because they daren't take the time off. Nett result, everybody else gets it.
And another thing. Me and my colleagues are kitted out so that we're quite literally able to work anywhere on earth, however, we're not allowed to work from home if any of us are under the weather because yon Bradford Factor can't factor in common sense. Sorry, I'm ranting now but it really is the one thing that truly 4ucks everybody off - me included.

Indeed. I used to tell my staff to stay at home and work from there if they had a nasty cold or something. Mainly because I didn't want to catch it. But we didn't have proper policies so that sort of sensible approach got messy.

Our work culture is so flawed. There should be more remote working and working from home in general. It would cut out time wasted commuting and actually data suggests people work longer hours. There are systems in place that can monitor that people are logged in and working if people are worried about lack of productivity.

[Worthy4England]

If I didn't have the opportunity to work from home, I'm fairly sure my SL would be higher than that recorded. There have been plenty of days over the years where I wouldn't necessarily have gone to the office but logged on from home, no problem.

[BWFC_Insane]

Queen's speech, due next Monday, now likely to be "delayed". There may be trouble ahead.....