The Politics Thread

[Worthy4England]

Evergy is a bit more complicated than above. The problem is currently wholesale gas prices, not the privatised supply companies making money. They are all making huge losses and going to the wall. Energy from gas isn't being provided any cheaper in France, it's just the cost is subsidised by the state and socialised (the proper meaning of that word). You can argue that's a good thing (I probably would) though it comes with its own drawbacks.

The main reason energy is cheaper in France is nuclear which has an unfortunately bad press. Given the potential effects of climate change I think there's a decent argument that Chernobyl may be the worst thing that's ever happened, not just for it's effects but the impact on public opinion.

But outside green energies which are still not sufficient to power everything given their issues with intermittent supply and storage, nuclear is by far the safest. Even Fukushima, best estimates are that one person died as a result of the reactor failure. One. All the other deaths were caused by the earthquake which also caused the reactor to go. Meanwhile coal clocks of huge numbers of deaths, and gas still far more. But aren't as sexy.

On privatisation generally, I think markets are broadly excellent things, and that the creation of limited liability arguably humanity's greatest invention. In the vast majority of sectors private is better then public for three main reasons:

1) competition - if you're driven to have to make a better product then your competitors you're going to get better results. See Ladas v Western cars. Who gives a feck if your Lada is rubbish, no-one can buy anything else;
2) failure - if you're product is terrible, you go bust. Limited liability means the owners lives aren't completely ruined (though it still sucks) but bad products are largely weeded out. If you can buy a Mercedes *or* a Lada, bye bye Lads.
3) effeciences - a company employing tens, hundreds or even thousands is more agile, effecient and joined up then a huge state operation. You don't get as much waste or drift or lack of communication.

The issue with lots of privatisation of public services is that at least the first one of those first two conditions doesn't really apply.

Take trains, there's no competition on trains. If Virgin are terrible at running the West coast mainline I can't get a different option. It's no use to me if the East coast mainline is better run, because I'm not going to the east coast. They've tried to use tendering to introduce competition but I don't think you can really introduce it where it doesn't exist. All you get is Avanti running the same trains at the same prices with a different badge.

Utilities - they're too important to fail. So you try to introduce competition in the supply bit, but e govt still has to step in because you can't leave people without power because a company's gamble on wholesale prices goes tits up.

Those public essentials are where privatisation just doesn't work, and we were astronomical amounts of money trying to artificially create the conditions where it will, and all that happens is pally shareholders get rich in the good times and leave it to the govt to pay when it goes wrong.

By God Pru I doubt you will take this as a compliment but maturity is catching up with you.

Too easy by half Hobes, at least we've got one of you talking sense now!

[BWFC_Insane]

Anyone watched Truss today? Without a shadow of doubt she is getting extreme coaching on her usually wooden image she is far more animated.
Well she could be off the booze as well I suppose.

In regard of the above post I guess we don't all sell our souls to the devil eh Worthy?
Only joking mate everyone has closer priorities and has to do what they need to do still won't save you from the wall come the revolution

How Truss talks is irrelevant is the nonsense that comes out of her mouth that’s the issue!

Not solely about how she talks her movement and interaction with other's and don't kid yourself mate, it does matter and influences a lot of folk

I think after the last clown the public will are are judging the result not the presentation. And everything truss is promising is disastrous.

When her own economic advocate is saying her plan will raise interest rates to 7% within a year during an economic and cost of living crisis - and that’s a good thing….should she follow through with that I confidently predict she won’t be PM very long at all.

[Hoboh]

Anyone watched Truss today? Without a shadow of doubt she is getting extreme coaching on her usually wooden image she is far more animated.
Well she could be off the booze as well I suppose.

In regard of the above post I guess we don't all sell our souls to the devil eh Worthy?
Only joking mate everyone has closer priorities and has to do what they need to do still won't save you from the wall come the revolution

How Truss talks is irrelevant is the nonsense that comes out of her mouth that’s the issue!

Not solely about how she talks her movement and interaction with other's and don't kid yourself mate, it does matter and influences a lot of folk

I think after the last clown the public will are are judging the result not the presentation. And everything truss is promising is disastrous.

When her own economic advocate is saying her plan will raise interest rates to 7% within a year during an economic and cost of living crisis - and that’s a good thing….should she follow through with that I confidently predict she won’t be PM very long at all.

You do lead as sheltered life don't you

There are still a lot out there that would back that lying toad with his green meanie spouse, not because of his policies but because he entertains them if he could stand!
Policy to a lot of folk fits in the 30sec time allotted for It, the personality of the candidate fills the rest, that's why they cannot cock up the sound bite except at their peril.

[BWFC_Insane]

Anyone watched Truss today? Without a shadow of doubt she is getting extreme coaching on her usually wooden image she is far more animated.
Well she could be off the booze as well I suppose.

In regard of the above post I guess we don't all sell our souls to the devil eh Worthy?
Only joking mate everyone has closer priorities and has to do what they need to do still won't save you from the wall come the revolution

How Truss talks is irrelevant is the nonsense that comes out of her mouth that’s the issue!

Not solely about how she talks her movement and interaction with other's and don't kid yourself mate, it does matter and influences a lot of folk

I think after the last clown the public will are are judging the result not the presentation. And everything truss is promising is disastrous.

When her own economic advocate is saying her plan will raise interest rates to 7% within a year during an economic and cost of living crisis - and that’s a good thing….should she follow through with that I confidently predict she won’t be PM very long at all.

You do lead as sheltered life don't you

There are still a lot out there that would back that lying toad with his green meanie spouse, not because of his policies but because he entertains them if he could stand!
Policy to a lot of folk fits in the 30sec time allotted for It, the personality of the candidate fills the rest, that's why they cannot cock up the sound bite except at their peril.

I’m not disagreeing with you. There are lots of voters who are influenced by very trivial things. Even by nonsense from the daily mail.

It’s the world we live in.

But still the idea that Truss who is already a public laughing stock will survive driving the economy to the point of millions of house repossessions and the deepest recession since ww2 is a bit laughable. If her plan is as stated she’s toast within a year. She’s not Johnson who despite all the absolutely obvious lies and populist rhetoric got away with much because a) a few people liked the huge grant act and b) Corbyn was the alternative.

Truss has neither luxury and a far worse position with the populous already angry.

[Hoboh]

Even people who read the Mail take most of it with a waggon load of salt, you only need to read the comments to see that.

What you do see however is the total dislike/mistrust of Sunak, backstabber seems the most oft repeated phrase. The DM is actually pushing Sunak and it ain't going well, they are not exactly pushing Truss either to be fair, they destroyed Mordant.

[BWFC_Insane]

Even people who read the Mail take most of it with a waggon load of salt, you only need to read the comments to see that.

What you do see however is the total dislike/mistrust of Sunak, backstabber seems the most oft repeated phrase. The DM is actually pushing Sunak and it ain't going well, they are not exactly pushing Truss either to be fair, they destroyed Mordant.

Sunak is much more popular with the electorate than truss. It’s only Tory members he’s not popular with.

As for the daily Mail they’ve been briefing against sunak since day one. So don’t give me them pushing him. Maybe one writer in mail on Sunday is but that’s distinct from the daily Mail which is under different editorialship. If you give the electorate a choice or Truss or sunak, Rishi would win comfortably.

On another note I generally find the led by donkeys thing has run it’s course but this is pretty funny.

https://twitter.com/bydonkeys/status/15 ... V5k_UmFiJA

[Hoboh]

Have to agree to disagree on that Sunak is not guaranteed to poll more than Truss in a GE, the number of what you would term ordinary Tory voters who mistrust anything he says is large, the view him as the WEF puppet candidate, the man propped up by the elite.

Now I will state that is not my opinion I don't buy into the Bill Gates/geriatric German Klaus Schwab conspiracy theories.

[Prufrock]

Have to agree to disagree on that Sunak is not guaranteed to poll more than Truss in a GE, the number of what you would term ordinary Tory voters who mistrust anything he says is large, the view him as the WEF puppet candidate, the man propped up by the elite.

Now I will state that is not my opinion I don't buy into the Bill Gates/geriatric German Klaus Schwab conspiracy theories.

By God Hobes, I doubt you will take this as a compliment but maturity is catching up with you

[Hoboh]

Have to agree to disagree on that Sunak is not guaranteed to poll more than Truss in a GE, the number of what you would term ordinary Tory voters who mistrust anything he says is large, the view him as the WEF puppet candidate, the man propped up by the elite.

Now I will state that is not my opinion I don't buy into the Bill Gates/geriatric German Klaus Schwab conspiracy theories.

By God Hobes, I doubt you will take this as a compliment but maturity is catching up with you

Touche

[Worthy4England]

That'll be an hour I'll never get back...

[Hoboh]

If that ignorant running mouth Sunak gets the leader/Pm gig then labour can bring back Corbyn and I would still vote for them! Might as well only difference is at least Corbyn would tax and spend at least some on the headline instead of tax and spend on his money mates like Sunak.

[Worthy4England]

So rather than just vague name calling, maybe you could explain how Truss's proposals will be great for us (as I'm still very confused why, when the debt is double what it was in 2010, the answer doesn't seem to be coming back with "austerity" which as far as I recall is an absolute at times like this.). I'm not sure I've heard too much around the "spend" side at all. We have the lowest corporation tax we've had for 50 years - was about 34% at the end of Thatcher. It was still 30% for most of Labour. We're now down at 19% and all I'm seeing is businesses a) try and avoid it and b) add it to their profits....

[Hoboh]

So rather than just vague name calling, maybe you could explain how Truss's proposals will be great for us (as I'm still very confused why, when the debt is double what it was in 2010, the answer doesn't seem to be coming back with "austerity" which as far as I recall is an absolute at times like this.). I'm not sure I've heard too much around the "spend" side at all. We have the lowest corporation tax we've had for 50 years - was about 34% at the end of Thatcher. It was still 30% for most of Labour. We're now down at 19% and all I'm seeing is businesses a) try and avoid it and b) add it to their profits....

Truss realizes over the next 12-18 months something has to be done to help curb inflation without plunging us into recession all Sunak wants to do is carry on as we are but with more tax.
And saying Sunak is mouthy ain't name calling, it's a fact, a proven fact. Normal folk stop listening when they encounter gobby gits like that if you had a gun you'd simply shoot the fcukers.

[Worthy4England]

So rather than just vague name calling, maybe you could explain how Truss's proposals will be great for us (as I'm still very confused why, when the debt is double what it was in 2010, the answer doesn't seem to be coming back with "austerity" which as far as I recall is an absolute at times like this.). I'm not sure I've heard too much around the "spend" side at all. We have the lowest corporation tax we've had for 50 years - was about 34% at the end of Thatcher. It was still 30% for most of Labour. We're now down at 19% and all I'm seeing is businesses a) try and avoid it and b) add it to their profits....

Truss realizes over the next 12-18 months something has to be done to help curb inflation without plunging us into recession all Sunak wants to do is carry on as we are but with more tax.
And saying Sunak is mouthy ain't name calling, it's a fact, a proven fact. Normal folk stop listening when they encounter gobby gits like that if you had a gun you'd simply shoot the fcukers.

Maybe, but I'm not sure what's she's proposing which will help curb inflation? In fact, I didn't hear one thing that's she's said which would reduce supply side inflation...

[TANGODANCER]

'm not sure what's she's proposing which will help curb inflation? In fact, I didn't hear one thing that's she's said which would reduce supply side inflation...

Not even pretending I know enough about economics to comment of use, but as a note, Zimbabwe has just announced production of gold coins as their answer?

[Bruce Rioja]

'm not sure what's she's proposing which will help curb inflation? In fact, I didn't hear one thing that's she's said which would reduce supply side inflation...

Not even pretending I know enough about economics to comment of use, but as a note, Zimbabwe has just announced production of gold coins as their answer?

Don't witch doctors still recommend raping children as a cure for AIDS round that neck of the woods?

[BWFC_Insane]

'm not sure what's she's proposing which will help curb inflation? In fact, I didn't hear one thing that's she's said which would reduce supply side inflation...

Not even pretending I know enough about economics to comment of use, but as a note, Zimbabwe has just announced production of gold coins as their answer?

Don't witch doctors still recommend raping children as a cure for AIDS round that neck of the woods?

Stop giving Truss policy ideas….

[Hoboh]

So rather than just vague name calling, maybe you could explain how Truss's proposals will be great for us (as I'm still very confused why, when the debt is double what it was in 2010, the answer doesn't seem to be coming back with "austerity" which as far as I recall is an absolute at times like this.). I'm not sure I've heard too much around the "spend" side at all. We have the lowest corporation tax we've had for 50 years - was about 34% at the end of Thatcher. It was still 30% for most of Labour. We're now down at 19% and all I'm seeing is businesses a) try and avoid it and b) add it to their profits....

Truss realizes over the next 12-18 months something has to be done to help curb inflation without plunging us into recession all Sunak wants to do is carry on as we are but with more tax.
And saying Sunak is mouthy ain't name calling, it's a fact, a proven fact. Normal folk stop listening when they encounter gobby gits like that if you had a gun you'd simply shoot the fcukers.

Maybe, but I'm not sure what's she's proposing which will help curb inflation? In fact, I didn't hear one thing that's she's said which would reduce supply side inflation...

She did talk about a moratorium on green levies which is a start on making energy more affordable she or whoever needs to go much further with fuel duty.
Once the cost of energy/fuel falls so will inflation to manageable levels without caning everybody with eccomy stifling interest rates, add in tax rise suspension people have more disposable income, spend more and the treasury gets more VAT income as Truss indicated 3 years should see us well through this and in a position to start reducing debt level then.
The need for action is now, not 10 years down the line when our national debt is reduced but no fcuker has a job! Or the country is permanently riddled with strikes for more money.

[Worthy4England]

Ok - so the thing that's going to curb inflation isn't anything to do with Truss? It's "wait until the supply side settles" (which I think it probably correct). I've still not heard from you what Truss is proposing which will curb inflation - which was your original contention.

Truss appears to have invented the magic money tree, we were told didn't exist - to the tune of £38 billion (give or take). The austerity plan that was mandatory to get out of a crisis like this, is hardly mentioned.

How is Truss going to do this without impacting the interest rates? So far she's "blamed the BoE" which is disingenuous (and the main reason it was made independent was to remove the political link and not be used as a tool for short term election wins), oh to be able to pull the boom and bust interest rate lever

She's using (wait for this) Minford as one of her economic advisors - which (whether by design or intent) is why some of her narrative sounds like Thatcher. God help us. Boom/bust here we come!

[Hoboh]

Ok - so the thing that's going to curb inflation isn't anything to do with Truss? It's "wait until the supply side settles" (which I think it probably correct). I've still not heard from you what Truss is proposing which will curb inflation - which was your original contention.

Truss appears to have invented the magic money tree, we were told didn't exist - to the tune of £38 billion (give or take). The austerity plan that was mandatory to get out of a crisis like this, is hardly mentioned.

How is Truss going to do this without impacting the interest rates? So far she's "blamed the BoE" which is disingenuous (and the main reason it was made independent was to remove the political link and not be used as a tool for short term election wins), oh to be able to pull the boom and bust interest rate lever

She's using (wait for this) Minford as one of her economic advisors - which (whether by design or intent) is why some of her narrative sounds like Thatcher. God help us. Boom/bust here we come!

Excuse the YAWN but your view and the view of 'experts' has never worked.
She is going to cut the % of Greta tax on energy, that's far more than Sunak for starters, cheaper energy curbs price rises fuel needs to be attacked also.
No one can afford to sit on their ass right now waffling about funding a self destructing NHS by raising taxes and there is money in the coffers, the amount pouring into the treasury is way past all forecasts, even the 'expert's.