The Politics Thread

[BWFC_Insane]

BBC

Guardian

Faily Mirror

There is a more or less equal distribution of Right/left, it is not the fault of those leaning to the right that they are the more popular/better subscribed is it?
And leaving the 'media' aside, hard Brexit seems to be the invented mantra of the Clegg's and Farron's of this world propped up by the Millar's and Blair's, the soft left, even the hard left have enough sense to keep quiet about it until they know what's going on.

The BBC are most definitely not part of the partisan media. You might note that a number of Labour campaigners felt the BBC were biased towards the Torys. It is an absolute nonsense to throw them in with openly partisan newspapers.

The only open partisan left leaning publication is the Mirror. The Guardian didn't even back Corbyn until the final day of the election campaign.

But even if you include the guardian and Mirror. For the right you have the Sun, Mail, Express and Torygraph. Plus sky.

That's a huge, chunk of right wing media, the Murdoch empire. All pointing in one direction.

You mean 'the BBC' that edited a film clip to suit the PC leftist agenda recently?

The BBC that has impartial programme audiences?

The BBC that know sooner or later a right leaning government will closely scrutinise it's funding?

Ah, right, carry on.

As for the Guardian, hard Brexit has been the mantra more or less since the referendum poll closed and every time an EU 'personality' pops their head above the parapet, it's the truth and what's going to happen.
Reading it every day I can state that as a fact.

You read too much right wing junk so cannot see what balanced media looks like.

See the apologies that Laura K woman on the BBC had to issue after going after Corbyn during the campaign. She's the main political correspondent on the BBC and was openly May over Corbyn. Doesn't make them biased by the way, just not left leaning. Audiences were drawn up not by the BBC but by polling companies. On reflection after the actual poll I don't think anyone could say the breakdown of views in the audience was skewed in any way.

As for editing film clips, the BBC removed a clip yesterday where a resident of the tower block accused local businesses and the council of deliberately starting the fire. The horrible leftist leaning organisation they are....oh.....ooops.

It never ceases to amaze me as to how bright people allow those with their own agendas to form their opinions for them.

Can be more subtle than that. Being exposed to drivel everyday can wear folk down.

I know that if I find myself around a load of right leaning folk I drift further left and if I spend time with lettuce munching lefties I become suddenly right of centre....

[Bruce Rioja]

As a complete aside, Gents.

Last week The Donald slates Qatar for supporting terrorism and invites all and sundry to boycott them. However, yesterday the US sells them 36 x F-15 fighter jets at a cost of a reported $12 Billion.

[Worthy4England]

As a complete aside, Gents.

Last week The Donald slates Qatar for supporting terrorism and invites all and sundry to boycott them. However, yesterday the US sells them 36 x F-15 fighter jets at a cost of a reported $12 Billion.

Funny owd game, innit?

[Bruce Rioja]

As a complete aside, Gents.

Last week The Donald slates Qatar for supporting terrorism and invites all and sundry to boycott them. However, yesterday the US sells them 36 x F-15 fighter jets at a cost of a reported $12 Billion.

Funny owd game, innit?

Indeed. Who could've guessed that a reality TV star with no ministerial experience, 6 bankruptcies, 4,000 lawsuits and 11 sex charges could possibly turn out this bad?

[TANGODANCER]

Can be more subtle than that. Being exposed to drivel everyday can wear folk down.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Can be more subtle than that. Being exposed to drivel everyday can wear folk down.

Tell me about it. Last weeks of the season were really wearing

[Lord Kangana]

Thanks for the sensible anwer Worthy. See, my reason for asking goes beyond any basic elasticty and " indications show"and takes into account that an 18 year old ( what's in it for me?) view, may well differ widely from that of a maturer 30 year old with a little life experience. How many for instance are in the can't work, won't work sector and how many vote for anythin g with the most promise of "benefits" attached to it's bullhorn? How many amongst the young ( or amongst any level) care about the actual running of the country as opposed to the personal wants? In another forum, a poster (name hidden for outrage reasons. ) claims he doesn't give a shiny one about Bolton as a club and business, only about match day and his entertainment) . The answers seem to be in the results, a rocky sort of 50-50, which doesn't really tell us anything much at all about anything. Sort of, " Michael Fish said"....Meanwhile, over in Parliament...

Evidence suggests that the younger people are the less they vote for personal gain and the more they vote socially for mutual benefit. Or at least that is how they perceive it. Whereas older people vote in their own self interests. It is why there is a perception that young people are more radically and socially engaged politically. And why the Tories have (until this election) generally protected pensioners as they know they will be more likely to vote Tory.

I think it is absolutely insulting to brand young people in this country as you have just done. They would easily retort that old buggers like you vote purely out of personal self interest and have no stake or interest in the future of the country as the whole.

No wonder the country is in such a mess when intelligent people like yourself write off entire generations in the way you are. The more people spout this nonsense the more it will motivate them to come out and express their views at the ballot box. Surely the views of 18 year olds are just as, if not even more pertinent, when making decisions for how the country is run than those who frankly won't be here to see it?

Wasn't it the great Sir Winston Churchill, no less, who said "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery".

and

" We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle".

Discuss.

Probably was. Do you believe everything that's written, or just what you choose to?

[Dr Hotdog]

Winston Churchill????

[bedwetter2]

Thanks for the sensible anwer Worthy. See, my reason for asking goes beyond any basic elasticty and " indications show"and takes into account that an 18 year old ( what's in it for me?) view, may well differ widely from that of a maturer 30 year old with a little life experience. How many for instance are in the can't work, won't work sector and how many vote for anythin g with the most promise of "benefits" attached to it's bullhorn? How many amongst the young ( or amongst any level) care about the actual running of the country as opposed to the personal wants? In another forum, a poster (name hidden for outrage reasons. ) claims he doesn't give a shiny one about Bolton as a club and business, only about match day and his entertainment) . The answers seem to be in the results, a rocky sort of 50-50, which doesn't really tell us anything much at all about anything. Sort of, " Michael Fish said"....Meanwhile, over in Parliament...

Evidence suggests that the younger people are the less they vote for personal gain and the more they vote socially for mutual benefit. Or at least that is how they perceive it. Whereas older people vote in their own self interests. It is why there is a perception that young people are more radically and socially engaged politically. And why the Tories have (until this election) generally protected pensioners as they know they will be more likely to vote Tory.

I think it is absolutely insulting to brand young people in this country as you have just done. They would easily retort that old buggers like you vote purely out of personal self interest and have no stake or interest in the future of the country as the whole.

No wonder the country is in such a mess when intelligent people like yourself write off entire generations in the way you are. The more people spout this nonsense the more it will motivate them to come out and express their views at the ballot box. Surely the views of 18 year olds are just as, if not even more pertinent, when making decisions for how the country is run than those who frankly won't be here to see it?

Wasn't it the great Sir Winston Churchill, no less, who said "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery".

and

" We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle".

Discuss.

Probably was. Do you believe everything that's written, or just what you choose to?

History has an annoying habit of repeating itself.

[bedwetter2]

Winston Churchill????

Doesn't look like you are living in the present either, you old Queen. See my comment below.

[BWFC_Insane]

See May is being criticised for taking a photo opportunity with emergency services at Grenfell, but failing to meet with the survivors or nearby residents.

Think this pretty much sums her up. And her campaign. Carefully crafted appearances. Put her in a real situation however, with real people and she is scared stiff.

[Bruce Rioja]

See May is being criticised for taking a photo opportunity with emergency services at Grenfell, but failing to meet with the survivors or nearby residents.

Think this pretty much sums her up. And her campaign. Carefully crafted appearances. Put her in a real situation however, with real people and she is scared stiff.

Oh here he goes. Would you have wanted a cozy meet-up with the PM if you were desperately searching for loved ones or wondering where you're going to sleep tonight?

[BWFC_Insane]

See May is being criticised for taking a photo opportunity with emergency services at Grenfell, but failing to meet with the survivors or nearby residents.

Think this pretty much sums her up. And her campaign. Carefully crafted appearances. Put her in a real situation however, with real people and she is scared stiff.

Oh here he goes. Would you have wanted a cozy meet-up with the PM if you were desperately searching for loved ones or wondering where you're going to sleep tonight?

No, but I might be a bit miffed if she popped round and only bothered with a photo opportunity.

I can sense a perfect storm brewing here, she is taking flak for this and the Tories more generally for failing to push through safety measures back in 2013. I personally think the latter is bollocks myself, but I think May's days are definitely numbered.

Her inability to show she is a human rather than the 'Maybot' will cost her dear.

[Bruce Rioja]

See May is being criticised for taking a photo opportunity with emergency services at Grenfell, but failing to meet with the survivors or nearby residents.

Think this pretty much sums her up. And her campaign. Carefully crafted appearances. Put her in a real situation however, with real people and she is scared stiff.

Oh here he goes. Would you have wanted a cozy meet-up with the PM if you were desperately searching for loved ones or wondering where you're going to sleep tonight?

No, but I might be a bit miffed if she popped round and only bothered with a photo opportunity.

She was there to meet with the emergency services, but don't let any of that business get in your way of your diatribe.

I could accuse Corbyn of blatant opportunism riding on the back of his new found popularity, if I wanted to,

[BWFC_Insane]

See May is being criticised for taking a photo opportunity with emergency services at Grenfell, but failing to meet with the survivors or nearby residents.

Think this pretty much sums her up. And her campaign. Carefully crafted appearances. Put her in a real situation however, with real people and she is scared stiff.

Oh here he goes. Would you have wanted a cozy meet-up with the PM if you were desperately searching for loved ones or wondering where you're going to sleep tonight?

No, but I might be a bit miffed if she popped round and only bothered with a photo opportunity.

She was there to meet with the emergency services, but don't let any of that business get in your way of your diatribe.

I could accuse Corbyn of blatant opportunism riding on the back of his new found popularity, if I wanted to,

It's about perception this game. Don't disagree. But it's another mistake from her and her team. Needs to show a human side, and only meeting emergency services when your opponent does his 'man of the people act' is another miscalculation. At a time she couldn't afford one.

[Lord Kangana]

Thanks for the sensible anwer Worthy. See, my reason for asking goes beyond any basic elasticty and " indications show"and takes into account that an 18 year old ( what's in it for me?) view, may well differ widely from that of a maturer 30 year old with a little life experience. How many for instance are in the can't work, won't work sector and how many vote for anythin g with the most promise of "benefits" attached to it's bullhorn? How many amongst the young ( or amongst any level) care about the actual running of the country as opposed to the personal wants? In another forum, a poster (name hidden for outrage reasons. ) claims he doesn't give a shiny one about Bolton as a club and business, only about match day and his entertainment) . The answers seem to be in the results, a rocky sort of 50-50, which doesn't really tell us anything much at all about anything. Sort of, " Michael Fish said"....Meanwhile, over in Parliament...

Evidence suggests that the younger people are the less they vote for personal gain and the more they vote socially for mutual benefit. Or at least that is how they perceive it. Whereas older people vote in their own self interests. It is why there is a perception that young people are more radically and socially engaged politically. And why the Tories have (until this election) generally protected pensioners as they know they will be more likely to vote Tory.

I think it is absolutely insulting to brand young people in this country as you have just done. They would easily retort that old buggers like you vote purely out of personal self interest and have no stake or interest in the future of the country as the whole.

No wonder the country is in such a mess when intelligent people like yourself write off entire generations in the way you are. The more people spout this nonsense the more it will motivate them to come out and express their views at the ballot box. Surely the views of 18 year olds are just as, if not even more pertinent, when making decisions for how the country is run than those who frankly won't be here to see it?

Wasn't it the great Sir Winston Churchill, no less, who said "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery".

and

" We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle".

Discuss.

Probably was. Do you believe everything that's written, or just what you choose to?

History has an annoying habit of repeating itself.

Lets hope so. In 1945 Winston Churchill's political views were obliterated at the ballot box because people understood the needs of building a society fit for peace.

[Hoboh]

So the 'mask' is now slipping, Three tragic events, Two caused by folk either born here or chose to live here who wish to fight a terror war for somewhere they would never live even for all the tea in China and a basically real horror story of decades of neglect by successive governments of all colours.
One common theme in this? Corbyn point scoring and trying to make political gains, the first two he says are the fault of police cuts.
No they are not, hoodie Joe may get away longer burgling and mugging people and dodgy Dave might beat up a few more before getting caught but ordinary PC Plod would not be busting terrorist rings.
There are less armed police on the streets!
As I recall the number of police wishing to train as firearms officers started to fall due to the treatment dished out to them if they actually had to discharge their weapons.
What we do need and something that leaves a nasty taste in the mouth of the Labour leadership are more MI5/MI6 spooks to monitor both here and overseas.
Labour start to blame austerity and the fact the Tories have not updated building regulations, despite Blair and co during, yes, a labour government did nothing to rectify shoddy not fit for purpose buildings despite being warned and where was Corbyn and cohorts shouting about it then?
Finally his 'big idea' is to steal, no other words for it, peoples property, what next re-nationalisation of all the sold off council homes, steal them too?
Then we have socialist media darling herself, silly Lilly claiming a conspiracy between the media and authorities covering up the death toll, which fcuking planet is she on? No one has a clue about how many people were in those flats, in fact no has a clue how many got out, it is going to be a long painful process or does silly Lilly just think of a number, attribute it to unknown sources and that's the correct one? She really has made a Jorden sized tit of herself this time.
Now we come to Marxist leader number one, McDonnell, by gaining 262 seats he and his puppet 'won' the election and are being denied power. His answer? take to the streets, do not accept the result of a democratic vote, overthrow May, actions worthy of Russia or other places normally lambasted for their dodgy democracy.

He called for the Trades Union Congress to back an anti-austerity event on July 1, which will end with a march on Parliament, and said the Left needed to ‘keep the momentum going’ to force an early election.
‘We need people doing everything they can to ensure the election comes as early as possible,’ he said. ‘I don’t think an alliance of Tories and the DUP can ever be strong and stable.’
He added: ‘What we need now is the TUC mobilised, every union mobilised … get out on the streets.

But Mr McDonnell told the Communist Morning Star newspaper that Mrs May had no right to govern. He said: ‘I don’t think this government is a legitimate government. It hasn’t got an overall majority.’
And he suggested Labour should now be able to push through its own manifesto in Parliament. ‘What I’m saying to people is they should be pressing now, because nobody won this election,’ he said.
‘The Labour Party should have the same right to put policies forward in Parliament, to be properly debated and voted upon and to legislate as well.’

Sam Fairbairn, of anti-austerity group the People’s Assembly, said ‘street mobilisations’ could help to bring down Mrs May. He added: ‘We say to the millions of people who engaged in politics for the first time that they can be part of a mass movement for change, deepening the crisis for Theresa May. Her days are numbered.’

Now I am no lover of May nor the Tories, in fact I worked out I have voted until this time more for the Lib Dems than Labour and once for the Tories. I believe if you lose a vote you try harder next time, you don't send out vandals and criminals to disrupt everyone else's lives and try to overthrow a democratic system, all McDonnell is short of is the Tanks and the UK could be Czechoslovakia mk2.
I say to you BWFCi, if you are proud to follow a bunch of thugs dressed as labour who don't give a shit for democracy and would care even less if they got elected, then you should be bloody well ashamed of yourself!

[bedwetter2]

So the 'mask' is now slipping, Three tragic events, Two caused by folk either born here or chose to live here who wish to fight a terror war for somewhere they would never live even for all the tea in China and a basically real horror story of decades of neglect by successive governments of all colours.
One common theme in this? Corbyn point scoring and trying to make political gains, the first two he says are the fault of police cuts.
No they are not, hoodie Joe may get away longer burgling and mugging people and dodgy Dave might beat up a few more before getting caught but ordinary PC Plod would not be busting terrorist rings.
There are less armed police on the streets!
As I recall the number of police wishing to train as firearms officers started to fall due to the treatment dished out to them if they actually had to discharge their weapons.
What we do need and something that leaves a nasty taste in the mouth of the Labour leadership are more MI5/MI6 spooks to monitor both here and overseas.
Labour start to blame austerity and the fact the Tories have not updated building regulations, despite Blair and co during, yes, a labour government did nothing to rectify shoddy not fit for purpose buildings despite being warned and where was Corbyn and cohorts shouting about it then?
Finally his 'big idea' is to steal, no other words for it, peoples property, what next re-nationalisation of all the sold off council homes, steal them too?
Then we have socialist media darling herself, silly Lilly claiming a conspiracy between the media and authorities covering up the death toll, which fcuking planet is she on? No one has a clue about how many people were in those flats, in fact no has a clue how many got out, it is going to be a long painful process or does silly Lilly just think of a number, attribute it to unknown sources and that's the correct one? She really has made a Jorden sized tit of herself this time.
Now we come to Marxist leader number one, McDonnell, by gaining 262 seats he and his puppet 'won' the election and are being denied power. His answer? take to the streets, do not accept the result of a democratic vote, overthrow May, actions worthy of Russia or other places normally lambasted for their dodgy democracy.

He called for the Trades Union Congress to back an anti-austerity event on July 1, which will end with a march on Parliament, and said the Left needed to ‘keep the momentum going’ to force an early election.
‘We need people doing everything they can to ensure the election comes as early as possible,’ he said. ‘I don’t think an alliance of Tories and the DUP can ever be strong and stable.’
He added: ‘What we need now is the TUC mobilised, every union mobilised … get out on the streets.

But Mr McDonnell told the Communist Morning Star newspaper that Mrs May had no right to govern. He said: ‘I don’t think this government is a legitimate government. It hasn’t got an overall majority.’
And he suggested Labour should now be able to push through its own manifesto in Parliament. ‘What I’m saying to people is they should be pressing now, because nobody won this election,’ he said.
‘The Labour Party should have the same right to put policies forward in Parliament, to be properly debated and voted upon and to legislate as well.’

Sam Fairbairn, of anti-austerity group the People’s Assembly, said ‘street mobilisations’ could help to bring down Mrs May. He added: ‘We say to the millions of people who engaged in politics for the first time that they can be part of a mass movement for change, deepening the crisis for Theresa May. Her days are numbered.’

Now I am no lover of May nor the Tories, in fact I worked out I have voted until this time more for the Lib Dems than Labour and once for the Tories. I believe if you lose a vote you try harder next time, you don't send out vandals and criminals to disrupt everyone else's lives and try to overthrow a democratic system, all McDonnell is short of is the Tanks and the UK could be Czechoslovakia mk2.
I say to you BWFCi, if you are proud to follow a bunch of thugs dressed as labour who don't give a shit for democracy and would care even less if they got elected, then you should be bloody well ashamed of yourself!

At the risk of repeating myself, should Corbyn's "friends" ever get into power, people should beware the knock on the door in the middle of the night.

[bedwetter2]

Evidence suggests that the younger people are the less they vote for personal gain and the more they vote socially for mutual benefit. Or at least that is how they perceive it. Whereas older people vote in their own self interests. It is why there is a perception that young people are more radically and socially engaged politically. And why the Tories have (until this election) generally protected pensioners as they know they will be more likely to vote Tory.

I think it is absolutely insulting to brand young people in this country as you have just done. They would easily retort that old buggers like you vote purely out of personal self interest and have no stake or interest in the future of the country as the whole.

No wonder the country is in such a mess when intelligent people like yourself write off entire generations in the way you are. The more people spout this nonsense the more it will motivate them to come out and express their views at the ballot box. Surely the views of 18 year olds are just as, if not even more pertinent, when making decisions for how the country is run than those who frankly won't be here to see it?

Wasn't it the great Sir Winston Churchill, no less, who said "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery".

and

" We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle".

Discuss.

Probably was. Do you believe everything that's written, or just what you choose to?

History has an annoying habit of repeating itself.

Lets hope so. In 1945 Winston Churchill's political views were obliterated at the ballot box because people understood the needs of building a society fit for peace.

Churchill's political views were not obliterated at the ballot box. I would sum up the situation as a parallel to today. A large portion of the population being tired of "austerity" (read that as debt brought on by war) and voting for the promises of the economically illiterate dwarves in the Labour party. Then when the sunlit uplands did not miraculously appear Labour were kicked out at the next opportunity because there were even bigger debts to repay and austerity ground onwards anyway. There might have been an NHS but food and energy was rationed.
This was then followed by 12 years of Conservative rule after the socialists were rumbled. When Labour's tax and spend policies and general economic mismanagement had been forgotten by the amnesiac electorate, they were back again to create more mayhem culminating in the "winter of discontent" and fawning to the unions which have only ever represented their own sectional interests. Just as now with McCluskey demonstrating that the rest of Britain can go to hell in a handcart so long as he can impose his socialist principles through Labour.

[TANGODANCER]

Might be worth a mention that back in 1945 (I was six and we had just endured six years of world war),a shortage of everything, including food - ask your grandparents- most of the walking wounded soldiers coming back home to who knew what, country grieving for its dead and a massive relief that it was all over, the corridors of power of Parliament and Westminster seemed a long way away from the dole and the blue-collar world of the rest of the country. I can actually remember the opposing parties canvassing round the streets (we didn't have many T.V's or even telephones around back then)with megaphones and tannoys from cars (even they were as rare as Starship Enterprise back then) and I can assure you that anybody voting would very likely be every bit as confused as they seem right now as to what/who they were actually voting for. Cotton mills, pits and overall-based industry were a long way from University Challenge. To compare Winston Churchill's politics to today is as useful as comparing your central heating engineer with a coal man or Lady Gaga with Vera Lynn. It was all over seventy years ago. Even I think we've moved on a little in relevant issues.