The Politics Thread

[Worthy4England]

Agree Pru. On energy competition, it's been like the Wild West. Deregulated, the barriers to entry are so low, that new "competition" hasn't been able to withstand the shock, so they've gone bust. Try telling that to the dereg crew. I'm somewhat bemused as to how they think supply side inflation will be solved by demand side levers. Far as I can tell, that's all they've got in the tool box.

[TANGODANCER]

Interesting read Pru, and also highlights our unrealistic views on many fronts.

Competition is a direct result of the need to beat your competitors on the survival market and something we (collectively all) take for granted when paying the asking price that, but for (in many cases) slave labour from countries and lifestyles that we daren't even think closely about being made in our own factories. We import them, but could we compete on a level playing field? ; No chance, thus marketing and the world goes round. This is what creates mass production and a supply and demand environ, but ever at the expense of the cheapest winning. Do we ever really wonder when asked for £4-99 for an item that we couldn't hope to make for four or five times that amount is it really expensive? We usually just moan about cost. (forever amongst some striking faction or other marching over cost of living rises.) In-house manufacture doesn't bear thinking about; we couldn't afford ourselves. It's still all about what's in pay packets.

In truth, it isn't about not knowing how lucky we are ( a) with a roof over our heads,a job, a warm bed and food inside us, against (b) not having any of those things at all; It's more a case of wondering which one will become the other unless things change with (b) hovering over us like an impending French Revolution.

[Worthy4England]

I see the big con worked then. Tesco made billions (six I think) in profit last year. Sure they beat the producers to the breadline to get the lowest costs, but it's absolutely not for your benefit. If you think you're getting the best deal, you need your head testing. It's profit cartel not competition.

[BWFC_Insane]

A market makes sense where competition is sensible and beneficial and where the product is not completely essential to the population.

Cars - market and competition to drive innovation and offer a range of value propositions…yep.

Trains where as outlined there is no real competition…no.

Markets where we have to heavily subsidise or regulate because the service or product is vital are probably always going to fail eventually like energy has.

Public ownership of our energy firms would mean we can subsidise the cost of energy rather than hand over profits to France and EDF etc…

And having a market to essentially run a class centre that charges people for a commodity is bonkers. The market works in good times but only because businesses leave themselves dangerously close to the wind and as soon as a bad time hits they go pop. That’s not a good market.it’s a failed one.

And when the so called regulator is intervening not on our behalf but to save the energy firms from going out of business you know it’s failed.

The private sector is not a panacea. Let’s just keep saying that.

[Worthy4England]

How many people get shafted on guarantees/warranties coz some shit firm went bust? And they're Limited, protecting the c*nt who walks with the profits when the budiness was making them...

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I see the big con worked then. Tesco made billions (six I think) in profit last year. Sure they beat the producers to the breadline to get the lowest costs, but it's absolutely not for your benefit. If you think you're getting the best deal, you need your head testing. It's profit cartel not competition.

You're not wrong. If I as an independent can beat Tesco on price for lots of things then they're definitely taking the piss out of their customers and suppliers. I did a price comparison recently and on some items such as kitchen towel (exact same one) I am over 50p cheaper.

[Worthy4England]

I see the big con worked then. Tesco made billions (six I think) in profit last year. Sure they beat the producers to the breadline to get the lowest costs, but it's absolutely not for your benefit. If you think you're getting the best deal, you need your head testing. It's profit cartel not competition.

You're not wrong. If I as an independent can beat Tesco on price for lots of things then they're definitely taking the piss out of their customers and suppliers. I did a price comparison recently and on some items such as kitchen towel (exact same one) I am over 50p cheaper.

Maybe there's the moral of the story AT. We do like the variety and "convenience" But folks have been conned into "this is the best it gets." They're not stupid, they know where their profits are made...

[TANGODANCER]

The wife does our shopping, spread between Asda, Morrisons and Iceland and sometimes online and delivered (a necessity at our ages). It isn't that one supplier is better or worse on all items than another, it's just that on like for like for like on some products, the difference between stores is baffling. Overall everything is on the climb. We only buy basic necessities now.

[Worthy4England]

OK. Let's do the price of butter...The price I charge is based on what you pay (as with most things, NOT what it costs me). Tell you what, I'll even give you an absolute deal, if it's threepence cheaper in their shop, I'll give you the difference. It's cartel pricing. They're constantly working out the highest price they can get away with. Sometimes hourly..

[Worthy4England]

Oh. Buy Brucies.

[BWFC_Insane]

OK. Let's do the price of butter...The price I charge is based on what you pay (as with most things, NOT what it costs me). Tell you what, I'll even give you an absolute deal, if it's threepence cheaper in their shop, I'll give you the difference. It's cartel pricing. They're constantly working out the highest price they can get away with. Sometimes hourly..

Bbbbbbut market based pricing sounds like a lovely idea….

And they train all those nice salesmen to tell us why it’s great as it gets us the lowest possible price…..

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I see the big con worked then. Tesco made billions (six I think) in profit last year. Sure they beat the producers to the breadline to get the lowest costs, but it's absolutely not for your benefit. If you think you're getting the best deal, you need your head testing. It's profit cartel not competition.

You're not wrong. If I as an independent can beat Tesco on price for lots of things then they're definitely taking the piss out of their customers and suppliers. I did a price comparison recently and on some items such as kitchen towel (exact same one) I am over 50p cheaper.

Maybe there's the moral of the story AT. We do like the variety and "convenience" But folks have been conned into "this is the best it gets." They're not stupid, they know where their profits are made...

Luckily the locals have bought into what we're doing. The problem is we now need larger premises. Much larger

[Worthy4England]

OK. Let's do the price of butter...The price I charge is based on what you pay (as with most things, NOT what it costs me). Tell you what, I'll even give you an absolute deal, if it's threepence cheaper in their shop, I'll give you the difference. It's cartel pricing. They're constantly working out the highest price they can get away with. Sometimes hourly..

Bbbbbbut market based pricing sounds like a lovely idea….

And they train all those nice salesmen to tell us why it’s great as it gets us the lowest possible price…..

Funny that innit. The fact they have so many people believing it, advocating for it, thinking they're getting the "best deal" shows how fcuked it is. My job is 100% maximise profit...I have zero interest in a fair deal, in fact I might walk us away from it on risk evaluation.

[Hoboh]

Anyone watched Truss today? Without a shadow of doubt she is getting extreme coaching on her usually wooden image she is far more animated.
Well she could be off the booze as well I suppose.

In regard of the above post I guess we don't all sell our souls to the devil eh Worthy?
Only joking mate everyone has closer priorities and has to do what they need to do still won't save you from the wall come the revolution

[Hoboh]

Evergy is a bit more complicated than above. The problem is currently wholesale gas prices, not the privatised supply companies making money. They are all making huge losses and going to the wall. Energy from gas isn't being provided any cheaper in France, it's just the cost is subsidised by the state and socialised (the proper meaning of that word). You can argue that's a good thing (I probably would) though it comes with its own drawbacks.

The main reason energy is cheaper in France is nuclear which has an unfortunately bad press. Given the potential effects of climate change I think there's a decent argument that Chernobyl may be the worst thing that's ever happened, not just for it's effects but the impact on public opinion.

But outside green energies which are still not sufficient to power everything given their issues with intermittent supply and storage, nuclear is by far the safest. Even Fukushima, best estimates are that one person died as a result of the reactor failure. One. All the other deaths were caused by the earthquake which also caused the reactor to go. Meanwhile coal clocks of huge numbers of deaths, and gas still far more. But aren't as sexy.

On privatisation generally, I think markets are broadly excellent things, and that the creation of limited liability arguably humanity's greatest invention. In the vast majority of sectors private is better then public for three main reasons:

1) competition - if you're driven to have to make a better product then your competitors you're going to get better results. See Ladas v Western cars. Who gives a feck if your Lada is rubbish, no-one can buy anything else;
2) failure - if you're product is terrible, you go bust. Limited liability means the owners lives aren't completely ruined (though it still sucks) but bad products are largely weeded out. If you can buy a Mercedes *or* a Lada, bye bye Lads.
3) effeciences - a company employing tens, hundreds or even thousands is more agile, effecient and joined up then a huge state operation. You don't get as much waste or drift or lack of communication.

The issue with lots of privatisation of public services is that at least the first one of those first two conditions doesn't really apply.

Take trains, there's no competition on trains. If Virgin are terrible at running the West coast mainline I can't get a different option. It's no use to me if the East coast mainline is better run, because I'm not going to the east coast. They've tried to use tendering to introduce competition but I don't think you can really introduce it where it doesn't exist. All you get is Avanti running the same trains at the same prices with a different badge.

Utilities - they're too important to fail. So you try to introduce competition in the supply bit, but e govt still has to step in because you can't leave people without power because a company's gamble on wholesale prices goes tits up.

Those public essentials are where privatisation just doesn't work, and we were astronomical amounts of money trying to artificially create the conditions where it will, and all that happens is pally shareholders get rich in the good times and leave it to the govt to pay when it goes wrong.

By God Pru I doubt you will take this as a compliment but maturity is catching up with you.

[BWFC_Insane]

Anyone watched Truss today? Without a shadow of doubt she is getting extreme coaching on her usually wooden image she is far more animated.
Well she could be off the booze as well I suppose.

In regard of the above post I guess we don't all sell our souls to the devil eh Worthy?
Only joking mate everyone has closer priorities and has to do what they need to do still won't save you from the wall come the revolution

How Truss talks is irrelevant is the nonsense that comes out of her mouth that’s the issue!

[TANGODANCER]

Apropos of nothing/everything.

What I truly can't understand is that so many supposedly intelligent people ; Yes, even the government have some, who can see/foresee the sicut est/status quo, suddenly become ignorant of the fact that there is a line going beyond which "will" detonate explosion. This is a fact that cannot be denied and right now we are very close to it. The positive well known and beloved Northern anthem "It'll be reet" is founded on hope rather than fact, subjunctive rather than the infinitive ("to exist"), and its negative mate" go tits up" is the ignored warning that the currency gamblers suffer convenient amnesia about in the pursuit of wealth.

Waxing lyrical, granted, but every Yin has its Yang, light/dark, right/wrong, good/bad,rich/poor etc,etc, yet in the pursuit of gain (because, let's face it, that's what it's all about in the end) wisdom ends in bank balances. To use a sinonimic (?) football example: At one time people spent time and effort lovingly blowing up footballs with bike pumps. Today, if a ball bursts they just bin it and get another. Unfortunately, the same ideology seems to apply with governments and politics. Beware, the line is closer than we think or want to admit. None believers can ignore the next paragraph at their will;

Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves ill in their doings.

Amen.

[Hoboh]

Anyone watched Truss today? Without a shadow of doubt she is getting extreme coaching on her usually wooden image she is far more animated.
Well she could be off the booze as well I suppose.

In regard of the above post I guess we don't all sell our souls to the devil eh Worthy?
Only joking mate everyone has closer priorities and has to do what they need to do still won't save you from the wall come the revolution

How Truss talks is irrelevant is the nonsense that comes out of her mouth that’s the issue!

Not solely about how she talks her movement and interaction with other's and don't kid yourself mate, it does matter and influences a lot of folk

[Prufrock]

Evergy is a bit more complicated than above. The problem is currently wholesale gas prices, not the privatised supply companies making money. They are all making huge losses and going to the wall. Energy from gas isn't being provided any cheaper in France, it's just the cost is subsidised by the state and socialised (the proper meaning of that word). You can argue that's a good thing (I probably would) though it comes with its own drawbacks.

The main reason energy is cheaper in France is nuclear which has an unfortunately bad press. Given the potential effects of climate change I think there's a decent argument that Chernobyl may be the worst thing that's ever happened, not just for it's effects but the impact on public opinion.

But outside green energies which are still not sufficient to power everything given their issues with intermittent supply and storage, nuclear is by far the safest. Even Fukushima, best estimates are that one person died as a result of the reactor failure. One. All the other deaths were caused by the earthquake which also caused the reactor to go. Meanwhile coal clocks of huge numbers of deaths, and gas still far more. But aren't as sexy.

On privatisation generally, I think markets are broadly excellent things, and that the creation of limited liability arguably humanity's greatest invention. In the vast majority of sectors private is better then public for three main reasons:

1) competition - if you're driven to have to make a better product then your competitors you're going to get better results. See Ladas v Western cars. Who gives a feck if your Lada is rubbish, no-one can buy anything else;
2) failure - if you're product is terrible, you go bust. Limited liability means the owners lives aren't completely ruined (though it still sucks) but bad products are largely weeded out. If you can buy a Mercedes *or* a Lada, bye bye Lads.
3) effeciences - a company employing tens, hundreds or even thousands is more agile, effecient and joined up then a huge state operation. You don't get as much waste or drift or lack of communication.

The issue with lots of privatisation of public services is that at least the first one of those first two conditions doesn't really apply.

Take trains, there's no competition on trains. If Virgin are terrible at running the West coast mainline I can't get a different option. It's no use to me if the East coast mainline is better run, because I'm not going to the east coast. They've tried to use tendering to introduce competition but I don't think you can really introduce it where it doesn't exist. All you get is Avanti running the same trains at the same prices with a different badge.

Utilities - they're too important to fail. So you try to introduce competition in the supply bit, but e govt still has to step in because you can't leave people without power because a company's gamble on wholesale prices goes tits up.

Those public essentials are where privatisation just doesn't work, and we were astronomical amounts of money trying to artificially create the conditions where it will, and all that happens is pally shareholders get rich in the good times and leave it to the govt to pay when it goes wrong.

By God Pru I doubt you will take this as a compliment but maturity is catching up with you.

Ha! Funny you should say that mate, as I was writing that it crossed my mind what the 19 year old who joined this forum would make of that bourgeoisie nonsense.

I still can't type though.

[Worthy4England]

Anyone watched Truss today? Without a shadow of doubt she is getting extreme coaching on her usually wooden image she is far more animated.
Well she could be off the booze as well I suppose.

In regard of the above post I guess we don't all sell our souls to the devil eh Worthy?
Only joking mate everyone has closer priorities and has to do what they need to do still won't save you from the wall come the revolution

We might sell your soul to the devil (for the right price, obvs) I don't sell to consumers I have to deal with "procurement" org, so it's fair game they professionals! Also maximise profit and "make shitloads" of it are two different things...