The Politics Thread

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Who will you be voting for?

Labour
12
40%
Conservatives
11
37%
Liberal Democrats
2
7%
UK Independence Party (UKIP)
0
No votes
Green Party
3
10%
Plaid Cymru
0
No votes
Other
1
3%
Planet Hobo
1
3%
 
Total votes: 30

Prufrock
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Prufrock » Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:18 pm

I'm not sure there are any more of them than there were it's just easier for them to find each other/easier for everyone else to see.
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That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:13 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:18 pm
I'm not sure there are any more of them than there were it's just easier for them to find each other/easier for everyone else to see.
Yup.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by LeverEnd » Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:23 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:13 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:18 pm
I'm not sure there are any more of them than there were it's just easier for them to find each other/easier for everyone else to see.
Yup.
Like this forum. 😁
...

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:39 am

Talk about indoctrination for Muslim terrorists. Well this is just the same. And more scary.

https://t.co/Z75yTicRsS

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:12 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:39 am
Talk about indoctrination for Muslim terrorists. Well this is just the same. And more scary.

https://t.co/Z75yTicRsS
They've done a face-off and swapped Trump for Biden. Which means that all these folks now need to support "Biden" (who is really Trump). That's gonna confuse them some, methinks.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:49 pm

I do hope that Dominion are able to take Guiliani, Powell and anyone else involved for defamation for a significant amount. Maybe to defend themselves against the Dominion action, they'll produce some evidence that supports their contention.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Montreal Wanderer » Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:22 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:49 pm
I do hope that Dominion are able to take Guiliani, Powell and anyone else involved for defamation for a significant amount. Maybe to defend themselves against the Dominion action, they'll produce some evidence that supports their contention.
Their problem is they do not have evidence that can be produced in court (which why they lost over 60 cases). Dominion is like to collect quite a bit. Good Canadian company of course - not Venezuelan!
"If you cannot answer a man's argument, all it not lost; you can still call him vile names. " Elbert Hubbard.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:07 pm

Montreal Wanderer wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:22 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:49 pm
I do hope that Dominion are able to take Guiliani, Powell and anyone else involved for defamation for a significant amount. Maybe to defend themselves against the Dominion action, they'll produce some evidence that supports their contention.
Their problem is they do not have evidence that can be produced in court (which why they lost over 60 cases). Dominion is like to collect quite a bit. Good Canadian company of course - not Venezuelan!
Oh I know that, Monty. 'Twas said with a heavy dose of sarcasm. One of the other companies filed today, too!

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Montreal Wanderer » Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:48 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:07 pm
Montreal Wanderer wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:22 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:49 pm
I do hope that Dominion are able to take Guiliani, Powell and anyone else involved for defamation for a significant amount. Maybe to defend themselves against the Dominion action, they'll produce some evidence that supports their contention.
Their problem is they do not have evidence that can be produced in court (which why they lost over 60 cases). Dominion is like to collect quite a bit. Good Canadian company of course - not Venezuelan!
Oh I know that, Monty. 'Twas said with a heavy dose of sarcasm. One of the other companies filed today, too!
THE other company (Smartmatic) and they've gone after Fox news in addition to the usual suspects. What a mess Rudy has made of his life since 9/11.
"If you cannot answer a man's argument, all it not lost; you can still call him vile names. " Elbert Hubbard.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:17 am

Montreal Wanderer wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:48 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:07 pm
Montreal Wanderer wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:22 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:49 pm
I do hope that Dominion are able to take Guiliani, Powell and anyone else involved for defamation for a significant amount. Maybe to defend themselves against the Dominion action, they'll produce some evidence that supports their contention.
Their problem is they do not have evidence that can be produced in court (which why they lost over 60 cases). Dominion is like to collect quite a bit. Good Canadian company of course - not Venezuelan!
Oh I know that, Monty. 'Twas said with a heavy dose of sarcasm. One of the other companies filed today, too!
THE other company (Smartmatic) and they've gone after Fox news in addition to the usual suspects. What a mess Rudy has made of his life since 9/11.
Needs to be done. They're already cooking their plot around left motivated, attack on free speech and nothing whatsoever about truth.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Bijou Bob » Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:21 am

5 years today since the Brexit vote. Anyone found a single bonus yet?? Just one?? Anyone??
Uma mesa para um, faz favor. Obrigado.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by dave the minion » Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:17 am

Vaccine rollout I would say is a fairly big bonus, as it allowed us to go nap and hoard them all for ourselves, and push through apprvoals quicker.
[i was a keen remainer BTW, but given how cr@p life has been under lockdown, I would consider that if the above is the only positive then its a pretty big one....]
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:24 am

dave the minion wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:17 am
Vaccine rollout I would say is a fairly big bonus, as it allowed us to go nap and hoard them all for ourselves, and push through apprvoals quicker.
[i was a keen remainer BTW, but given how cr@p life has been under lockdown, I would consider that if the above is the only positive then its a pretty big one....]
Good try except that we could have done the vaccine rollout regardless of Brexit. Not that I blame anyone given the way the government gaslight the population into believing whatever flotsam and garbage they decide will fit the narrative that day.

https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-vaccine-brexit/

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Prufrock » Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:29 am

As could the rest of the EU member states, but they didn't.

If it's not a benefit of Brexit itself (which it probably is IMO) then it's certainly a benefit of Euro-scepitsism (that even if we'd still been in we'd have decided to go our own way).
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:38 am

Prufrock wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:29 am
As could the rest of the EU member states, but they didn't.

If it's not a benefit of Brexit itself (which it probably is IMO) then it's certainly a benefit of Euro-scepitsism (that even if we'd still been in we'd have decided to go our own way).
There's a lot to unpack in all of this (and much more than I can be bothered with) but given the MHRA did an awful lot of work for the EMA one would assume that even in the event of co-operation the roll-out would have been better since the EMA lost a huge portion of their operation following Brexit.

But that aside the co-operation would have meant fewer production issues as well.

You can't claim a benefit of Brexit as being able to do something you could regardless but of course you can claim that the political landscape has allowed that to happen more readily. Ironically we are still and have been under more restrictions than much of Europe anyway and projections for winter are not looking good for us comparatively either.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Prufrock » Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:33 am

I think you can claim it as a benefit when every other European country who could have done it didn't (or more accurately didn't until it became clear the EMA had f*cked it). What's the difference between us and France, or us and Germany.

Your point about our influence if we'd still been there/ the impact on the EMA of us leaving is a good one.

I guess the leaver argument is we left and did better than the EU and we think better than the EU would've done even with us. The remainer argument is we should be leading in Europe and with us working with them the whole continent would be in better shape (so more countries on the green list :D )
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:44 am

Prufrock wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:33 am
I think you can claim it as a benefit when every other European country who could have done it didn't (or more accurately didn't until it became clear the EMA had f*cked it). What's the difference between us and France, or us and Germany.

Your point about our influence if we'd still been there/ the impact on the EMA of us leaving is a good one.

I guess the leaver argument is we left and did better than the EU and we think better than the EU would've done even with us. The remainer argument is we should be leading in Europe and with us working with them the whole continent would be in better shape (so more countries on the green list :D )
It’s not influence. It was capacity. MHRA was carrying out half the EMA’s work. They were based on London after all.

As to your first point it’s true though the UK diverging form the rest of the EU countries even prior to Brexit was the usual thing wasn’t it?

Regardless we might have blue passports even thought we can’t use the damned things. So yay. Freeeeeedoooommmmmm.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Prufrock » Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:11 pm

Not really. I think we did it more than most (formally, plenty other countries just ignored EU rules in certain things) but far from "usual".

Especially if the MHRA and EMA were so closely intertwined.

It's a little bit moot really whether it was Brexit itself or the eurosceptic mindset in general which was responsible for it, I think it's tough to argue we haven't done better than the EU on vaccines. So, 1-0 :D
In a world that has decided
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Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:08 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:11 pm
Not really. I think we did it more than most (formally, plenty other countries just ignored EU rules in certain things) but far from "usual".

Especially if the MHRA and EMA were so closely intertwined.

It's a little bit moot really whether it was Brexit itself or the eurosceptic mindset in general which was responsible for it, I think it's tough to argue we haven't done better than the EU on vaccines. So, 1-0 :D
But we've done worse on deaths so 1-1?

I guess though we've got big flags and this government and DfE endorsed beauty...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRIP0vBtcBg

So we're winning as ever. I'm just not sure what we're winning at......

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by boltonboris » Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:15 pm

Do you think we'd have less deaths had we stayed in the EU?
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