The Politics Thread

mummywhycantieatcrayons · Post by **mummywhycantieatcrayons** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:32 am

It's been a while....

Seriously though, I don't think we discuss enough politics on here. I hate it when it's said that we "can't" do politics on here (or anywhere else for that matter).

So much to talk about at the moment... did anyone follow the conference season at all?

And, in the US, the first Veep debate tonight - Palin vs Biden. I do hope she can scrape through looking vaguely competent.... As it is, I think we're screwed anyway, and I don't see JM winning in places like Colorado, Virginia etc.

Had a quick browse of the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act 2008 yesterday...

sec. 45Q. credit for carbon dioxide sequestration
sec. 205. credit for qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicles
sec 211. transportation fringe benefit for bicyle commuters
sec. 503. exemption from excise tax for certain wooden arrows designed for use by children

All absolutely essential measures in tackling the global financial crisis, wouldn't you agree? Got to love American politics...

jmjhb · Post by **jmjhb** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:41 am

Looking forward to the debate...not expecting too much though, Biden has to be careful not to be too patronising towards Palin.

jmjhb · Post by **jmjhb** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:35 am

Biden very solid if unspectacular I thought, Palin clearly out of her depth though. It's too late now but I'll form some arguments in the morning.

Lord Kangana · Post by **Lord Kangana** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:57 am

I don't know whether to laugh or cry that the home of capitalism, that country where socialism is an offence worse than rape or murder, where tax cuts are the order of the day, where greed is good and the free market has free reign, is going to have to get its government to bail out its banking system to the tune of $700billion. And they expect the tax payers to fund it without even blinking.

At least it gives them a convenient excuse to dodge the bullet of universal healthcare, wealthfare reform and anything else that might remotely benefit its citizens. No. We must save the banks at all costs.

You started the thread mummy, and you clearly believe in capitalism, I'd love to hear you defend why its such a good idea to prop up a clearly failing system, and simply carry on as before?

Puskas · Post by **Puskas** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:53 am

I didn't see the debate, but choosing Palin as a running-mate?
She's a fcukin' creationist. 'Nuff said. Might as well pick a flat-earther.

Lord Kangana · Post by **Lord Kangana** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:56 am

The United Stupid of America, as one (American) political commentator/satirist described it.

superjohnmcginlay · Post by **superjohnmcginlay** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:56 am

Puskas wrote:I didn't see the debate, but choosing Palin as a running-mate?
She's a fcukin' creationist. 'Nuff said. Might as well pick a flat-earther.

Aye so thats the christian vote sorted then.

Puskas · Post by **Puskas** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:59 am

superjohnmcginlay wrote:
Puskas wrote:I didn't see the debate, but choosing Palin as a running-mate?
She's a fcukin' creationist. 'Nuff said. Might as well pick a flat-earther.
Aye so thats the christian vote sorted then.

Not all christians are incapable of evaluating evidence.

At least I hope not.

superjohnmcginlay · Post by **superjohnmcginlay** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:01 am

Puskas wrote:
superjohnmcginlay wrote:
Puskas wrote:I didn't see the debate, but choosing Palin as a running-mate?
She's a fcukin' creationist. 'Nuff said. Might as well pick a flat-earther.
Aye so thats the christian vote sorted then.
Not all christians are incapable of evaluating evidence.

At least I hope not.

Dunno. Never been to yankland.
Religion and politics in 1 nice little thread. How many pages before lockage?

ratbert · Post by **ratbert** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:05 am

I've never really understood what's so bad in the USA about being tagged a 'liberal' - if America is the land of the free, then surely liberalism is it's natural political philosophy? Free markets and all that...

...in any case, do recent events prove that the 'small government' model as practicsed by conservatives don't work as effeiciently as they trumpet? Governments are there to provide safety nets and corrective measures to protect the greater good.

And mummy, I assume you're talking about your own side when you say 'we' and not on behalf of everyone here

Worthy4England · Post by **Worthy4England** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:22 am

Oh good we've managed to through religion in as well - and on page one as well.

I think she was a strange choice for running mate for McCain. You can see that it's to try and appeal to the ordinary housewife etc., but really you should have someone who might in an emergency run the "strongest nation in the world" who can string a sentence together. Her popularity rose as a result of the debate, but I think that's a view against a public that expected nowt special.

Will be really interesting to see how the vote goes today. Think there's little choice but to pass the Bill to be honest and I suspect they'll take some consolation that they'll all be as unpopular as each other when they do - except maybe those who sit in real marginals who may well decide that the favour of the public is more important than the short to mid-term future of the economy.

Worthy4England · Post by **Worthy4England** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:27 am

ratbert wrote:And mummy, I assume you're talking about your own side when you say 'we' and not on behalf of everyone here

I think the poor lad's confused...I'm not sure how the Republican's can be "we" unless you actually live and vote in the US of A....mind you I think Holland was "we" during the Euro Champs - I guess mummy is becoming confused as to where he's from

Puskas · Post by **Puskas** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:28 am

I'm not convinced it is a religious discussion.
Creationism is a scientific issue. It makes a claim about how life arrived on earth. Insofar as it can be tested, it has been shown to run contrary to all available evidence. End of discussion.
Religion, per se, makes no testable claims. As such, it is a completely different issue altogether.

Worthy4England · Post by **Worthy4England** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:31 am

Puskas wrote:I'm not convinced it is a religious discussion.
Creationism is a scientific issue. It makes a claim about how life arrived on earth. Insofar as it can be tested, it has been shown to run contrary to all available evidence. End of discussion.
Religion, per se, makes no testable claims. As such, it is a completely different issue altogether.

They're not exactly mutually exclusive of each other? I agree end of discussion think it was done to death on a thread about 3 months back

Zulus Thousand of em · Post by **Zulus Thousand of em** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:15 pm

Politics and religion in the same thread. Well, it made me sit up and put my modding goggles on!

All well so far though. So far.

blurred · Post by **blurred** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:27 pm

mummywhycantieatcrayons wrote:And, in the US, the first Veep debate tonight - Palin vs Biden. I do hope she can scrape through looking vaguely competent.... As it is, I think we're screwed anyway, and I don't see JM winning in places like Colorado, Virginia etc.

I'm interested as to the 'we' in this - while I know you have your blue leanings in affairs on this side of the pond, and the Republicans are the natural party of the 'conservative' (both big and small C) over there, I find it interesting that you align yourself with them, when I would imagine that a significant minority (if not a majority) of Conservatives over here are distinctly anti-Bush. How does that reconcile? Have you not watched the West Wing and become avowedly Democrat?

superjohnmcginlay · Post by **superjohnmcginlay** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:28 pm

Why would Conservatives over here be anti-Bush?

Zulus Thousand of em · Post by **Zulus Thousand of em** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:39 pm

Never make the mistake of assuming that Democrats = Labour and Republicans = Conservatives. They're all considerably further to the Right for you to make that comparison valid.

Worthy4England · Post by **Worthy4England** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:44 pm

superjohnmcginlay wrote:Why would Conservatives over here be anti-Bush?

Because he's just been on a programme of intervening in the free market?

Montreal Wanderer · Post by **Montreal Wanderer** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:19 pm

I am somewhat astonished that any non-American would favour the Republican Party. Palin is not a very intelligent woman and she cannot answer questions about anything outside America coherently. JM is old and has skin cancer, so Palin could very well become president in the next few years. That thought is terrifying to many of us. We have had eight years of some God fearing not very bright person in charge of the US - the world does not need four more.