The Politics Thread

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Who will you be voting for?

Labour
13
41%
Conservatives
12
38%
Liberal Democrats
2
6%
UK Independence Party (UKIP)
0
No votes
Green Party
3
9%
Plaid Cymru
0
No votes
Other
1
3%
Planet Hobo
1
3%
 
Total votes: 32

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Bruce Rioja
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:16 pm

As much as I dislike Branson and his organisation, the trip from Piccadilly to Euston is an absolute joy. Keep up the good work.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:47 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:As much as I dislike Branson and his organisation, the trip from Piccadilly to Euston is an absolute joy. Keep up the good work.
Aye, never had much problem with it here. Return trip can be a bit of a 'mare when not able to reserve a seat, but in the main, on time and stuff which you'd expect for £341 quid.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lord Kangana » Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:04 pm

Plus some of your tax.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by bobo the clown » Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:26 pm

thebish wrote:
Harry Genshaw wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
thebish wrote:I am sure we have every reason to be absolutely confident about the independant, disinterested train operator's account of the incident as they would have absolutely no reason I can think of tell a different story... no...

#trustinvirgin
So the footage is faked then?
I haven't seen the footage and tbh dont really want to but my Facebook feed is now full of pictures and stories purporting to show families and other passengers sat on the floor too. Claims that all the empty seats were reserved?
those families were ALL Jezza's henchmen... FACT
ffs Bish.

Roll with it man. His team cocked up. He looks a knob. It'll have NO affect on the voting.

But this mass denial is pathetic. You joining it .... well ...
Not advocating mass-murder as an entirely positive experience, of course, but it had its moments.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:35 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Bruce Rioja wrote:As much as I dislike Branson and his organisation, the trip from Piccadilly to Euston is an absolute joy. Keep up the good work.
Aye, never had much problem with it here. Return trip can be a bit of a 'mare when not able to reserve a seat, but in the main, on time and stuff which you'd expect for £341 quid.
So is JC hankering after a return to the days of British Rail then? Is that what he thinks we need right now by way of rail transport? A national joke? :conf:
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lord Kangana » Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:39 pm

Purely for accuracy, that'd be the BR that was the second most efficient rail system in Europe, that received less than 50% the subsidy it does now, whilst charging lower fares than now.

That isn't to say I dislike Virgin, but we do need a meaningful discussion.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by thebish » Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:03 pm

bobo the clown wrote:ffs Bish.

Roll with it man. His team cocked up. He looks a knob. It'll have NO affect on the voting.

But this mass denial is pathetic. You joining it .... well ...

awwww... and you were so proud of being the sceptical one... when it comes to the train company under criticism - sounds like you're just easily led!

as I said - from our position - yours included - there is no obvious reason to pick one over the other - I wouldn't know who to believe having read both versions (it'd be daft to be certain either way)

the fact that you so quickly and credulously believe Virgin's media desk, and the news media that repeat it, is testament to your own political bias - it would be the only reason to be so definite that one account is more believable than the other. You always give yourself way more credit for not being as gullible as that... bobo the sceptic, my arse!!

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by bobo the clown » Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:05 pm

You ACTUALLY believe this is spoofed up ? Really ??

Mad as a frog.
Not advocating mass-murder as an entirely positive experience, of course, but it had its moments.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:07 pm

thebish wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
thebish wrote:I am sure we have every reason to be absolutely confident about the independant, disinterested train operator's account of the incident as they would have absolutely no reason I can think of tell a different story... no...

#trustinvirgin
So the footage is faked then?
in what sense faked? anyone who travels by train knows that just cos someone is not currwently sitting in their seat doesn't mean they are not on the train and about to return to it...

it could be as jeremy's team says - they had bags on them... no fakery needed...

from where you and I sit, we have no real way of knowing - so you pays your money and takes your choice.

I don't see any obvious reason to choose to believe one account over the other - but you seem very, very, very sure that Virgin are the ones to believe! (The Transport Salaried Staffs Association support Jezza's version of events saying that Virgin are being "disingenuous".)


VIRGIN - disingenuous!! never, surely not? really???
Except, after he filmed his video he went and sat in a seat. Either that is faked or is true.

You can only either believe the video showing him sitting down is true or fake.

One or the other. No wiggle room.

And that means that at the absolute best what he and his team did was incredibly disingenuous. I'd say more than likely an outright lie. But that is open to interpretation.

However the fact he sat in a seat is not here a question of anything other than did Virgin fake the video or not?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by thebish » Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:09 pm

bobo the clown wrote:You ACTUALLY believe this is spoofed up ? Really ??

Mad as a frog.

I think you may be having a problem with the reading...

two stories - both parties with obvious agendas - who to believe? I said I wouldn't know (reliably) which to believe.

YOU pick one as a definite truth.

you're the mad one! mad as a box of welsh badgers. :laugh:

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by thebish » Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:10 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Except, after he filmed his video he went and sat in a seat. Either that is faked or is true.

yes - he did - as he describes himself. have you actually bothered to read his account of the incident?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:12 pm

thebish wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Except, after he filmed his video he went and sat in a seat. Either that is faked or is true.

yes - he did - as he describes himself. have you actually bothered to read his account of the incident?
When did he give his account?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by thebish » Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:16 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
thebish wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Except, after he filmed his video he went and sat in a seat. Either that is faked or is true.

yes - he did - as he describes himself. have you actually bothered to read his account of the incident?
When did he give his account?

i'll take that as a no then! :doh:

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:22 pm

Lord Kangana wrote:Purely for accuracy, that'd be the BR that was the second most efficient rail system in Europe, that received less than 50% the subsidy it does now, whilst charging lower fares than now.

That isn't to say I dislike Virgin, but we do need a meaningful discussion.
1/ How are you measuring this second most efficient rail system business?

2/ That received less than 50% subsidy measured on a pro rata basis to what?

3/ Provide evidence of fares being lower on a pro rata basis to current fares.

Purely for accuracy.

Further, and in the interests of meaningful discussion, one can hardly compare the experience of travelling from Manchester to London between that of the one on BR and that of one on Virgin.
Last edited by Bruce Rioja on Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:25 pm

thebish wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
thebish wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Except, after he filmed his video he went and sat in a seat. Either that is faked or is true.

yes - he did - as he describes himself. have you actually bothered to read his account of the incident?
When did he give his account?

i'll take that as a no then! :doh:
I've read his account today. I'm asking did he explain at the time that he was shortly after filming offered a seat? Did he also at the time explain there were seats free but that he wanted two next to each other?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lord Kangana » Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:14 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Lord Kangana wrote:Purely for accuracy, that'd be the BR that was the second most efficient rail system in Europe, that received less than 50% the subsidy it does now, whilst charging lower fares than now.

That isn't to say I dislike Virgin, but we do need a meaningful discussion.
1/ How are you measuring this second most efficient rail system business?

2/ That received less than 50% subsidy measured on a pro rata basis to what?

3/ Provide evidence of fares being lower on a pro rata basis to current fares.

Purely for accuracy.

Further, and in the interests of meaningful discussion, one can hardly compare the experience of travelling from Manchester to London between that of the one on BR and that of one on Virgin.
The rail system as a whole, adjusted to 2015 figures, receives a significantly larger government subsidy (an average iro £4.5bn pa in the last decade that averages at double) than in the 1980's.

So no, it would be difficult to compare the two, just like it would be difficult to compare say Manchester City and Bolton Wanderers. One is invested in heavily, and the other is starved of investment.

The figures for BR, again for the eighties, are based on the usual parameters of trains running on time and so forth per passenger mile per £ spent. I appreciate it makes people angry to think the public sector could be efficient, but it makes me equally angry to think of the money that wouldn't have been wasted had we not used our rail system as a political football.

Having spent many a day staring at the beautiful British countryside during the years when the government finally did invest in our railway, I did get to wondering as to why they couldn't have saved us all a lot of hassle and delays and just invested the money in the first place, but thats politics for you.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lord Kangana » Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:16 pm

All government figures by the way,not my measurements
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:05 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Worthy4England wrote:
Bruce Rioja wrote:As much as I dislike Branson and his organisation, the trip from Piccadilly to Euston is an absolute joy. Keep up the good work.
Aye, never had much problem with it here. Return trip can be a bit of a 'mare when not able to reserve a seat, but in the main, on time and stuff which you'd expect for £341 quid.
So is JC hankering after a return to the days of British Rail then? Is that what he thinks we need right now by way of rail transport? A national joke? :conf:
To be fair, as someone that regularly used train services in the UK up until 4/5 years ago, I remember using the Euston to Manchester route regularly before Major privatised it. I used to rock up without having to book month in advance and navigate a 100 different fare options and get a seat for around £20-£30 return. The service was no better or worse back then except the trains are a bit newer and posher now. Even allowing for inflation the cost of the same now is ridiculous.

Before leaving the UK I was a long suffering Thameslink user. I recall a 4 month period where a particular train turned up within 25 minutes of when it should have about twice. Most days it didn't at all. I had multiple occasions where it took 4 hours each way for a 50 minute journey. The operator claimed to be investing shit loads, but what it meant was the government was investing shit loads. It's investment was restricted to painting stations, making ticket machines as complicated as possible so as to make you buy a more expensive ticket. The best one was providing Blackberrys to staff so they might know what was going on, but rather than give them to platform staff, they gave them to revenue protection who didn't give a toss apart from making old ladies cry because they couldn't figure out the right ticket from the ticket machine (ticket office only open for about an hour a day).

Fares have risen to crazy levels and the taxpayer is funding the improvements. The service is not improved by any meaningful level and is still plagued by unions. If the train operators were really investing billions rather than the taxpayer then fine, but the reality is the taxpayer and user is funding it and revenue is syphoned off to shareholders. It might as well be nationalised and syphon the money back to the treasury. The service would be no worse, but we'd be paying a bit less for it.

Rant over :oops:

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:26 am

Just to add...

Ticket office staff and platform staff were reduced to such an extent that they became mythical creatures. At the same time revenue protection would descend in gangs of 10 and block the tops platform stairs. This meant a 100 weary commuters at the end of a delay ridden day trapped on icy stairs (no platform staff to de-ice) and having to squeeze through these 'inspectors showing you pass. If any one of them didn't catch your ticket, you'd often have your arm yanked and dragged and your ticket inspected very slowly as if it were a dodgy passport. All the while, half a dozen police constables watching on at great taxpayer expense.

Now, I'm all for catching fare dodgers and heavily penalising the genuine dodgers. But, if the train companies actually manned their stations and checked tickets old school style by an affable chap(pess) then there would be less dodging of fares, no need for the aggressive manhandling, no need for the police and there would be people to help people whilst doing the job of revenue protection.

The system has been developed to fine people. Complicated fare types and combinations. Complicated ticket machines. No staff to help. Intentionally make it easy for anyone to get on a train ticket or not. Then have shit loads of people to try and catch you at the end of your journey. All the while, the train operators have large teams of figure massagers to try and meet targets and not payout compensation and to pass blame to others so they don't pay fines. The whole system is a con.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Prufrock » Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:35 am

thebish wrote:
bobo the clown wrote:You ACTUALLY believe this is spoofed up ? Really ??

Mad as a frog.

I think you may be having a problem with the reading...

two stories - both parties with obvious agendas - who to believe? I said I wouldn't know (reliably) which to believe.

YOU pick one as a definite truth.

you're the mad one! mad as a box of welsh badgers. :laugh:
Except virgin have released photographic evidence...
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