The Politics Thread

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Who will you be voting for?

Labour
12
40%
Conservatives
11
37%
Liberal Democrats
2
7%
UK Independence Party (UKIP)
0
No votes
Green Party
3
10%
Plaid Cymru
0
No votes
Other
1
3%
Planet Hobo
1
3%
 
Total votes: 30

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:05 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:49 pm
Image
Hilarious, if I knew what the fxck you were on about.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lord Kangana » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:04 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:58 pm
Lord Kangana wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:31 pm
What do think will happen to the NHS when we implement TTIP?
:conf: But we won't. That's an agreement between the US and the EU. Or will be... nowt to do with us now!
For clarities sake, are you referring to the actual detail of TTIP, or simply the name? Or both?
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:11 pm

Lord Kangana wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:04 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:58 pm
Lord Kangana wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:31 pm
What do think will happen to the NHS when we implement TTIP?
:conf: But we won't. That's an agreement between the US and the EU. Or will be... nowt to do with us now!
For clarities sake, are you referring to the actual detail of TTIP, or simply the name? Or both?
Both.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:07 am

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:43 pm
Lord Kangana wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:05 am
The NHS is getting an extra £18.2bn soon so problems like that should be sorted.
It's not all about money fer'cris'sake!!! (despite you being the most sarcastic poster in Christendom, so no I didn't miss the sarcasm).
As I made plain, it's about management. If a small GP practice in the middle of the countryside and a hospital in a medium sized city can get it consistently right all the time and be rated rated Outstanding in every single area, why cant the rest? Or are you of the knobbish opinion that somehow myGP's practice and my hospital are funded at the expense of yours?
So to reiterate: This constant bollocks about expenditure and finances in the NHS, is just that; politically driven bollox. A superb NHS that is consistent and world leading exists on the present budget. If it's failing in your area that is purely down to piss poor management of the resources available. Hoboh's six week wait for a scan transfer between departments has nothing to do with budget, politics, Brexit or anything other than terrible local management
The NHS is sliding down international performance league tables, last time I checked. Fact is that it is under resourced. I've worked directly for a business supplying services to the NHS in the past. I've seen it close up. Its under resourced and getting worse. Yes of course in many cases it provides absolutely brilliant care. But minor pressures in the system cause far bigger problems than they should.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Hoboh » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:47 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:07 am
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:43 pm
Lord Kangana wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:05 am
The NHS is getting an extra £18.2bn soon so problems like that should be sorted.
It's not all about money fer'cris'sake!!! (despite you being the most sarcastic poster in Christendom, so no I didn't miss the sarcasm).
As I made plain, it's about management. If a small GP practice in the middle of the countryside and a hospital in a medium sized city can get it consistently right all the time and be rated rated Outstanding in every single area, why cant the rest? Or are you of the knobbish opinion that somehow myGP's practice and my hospital are funded at the expense of yours?
So to reiterate: This constant bollocks about expenditure and finances in the NHS, is just that; politically driven bollox. A superb NHS that is consistent and world leading exists on the present budget. If it's failing in your area that is purely down to piss poor management of the resources available. Hoboh's six week wait for a scan transfer between departments has nothing to do with budget, politics, Brexit or anything other than terrible local management
The NHS is sliding down international performance league tables, last time I checked. Fact is that it is under resourced.
I've worked directly for a business supplying services to the NHS in the past. I've seen it close up. Its under resourced and getting worse.
Yes of course in many cases it provides absolutely brilliant care. But minor pressures in the system cause far bigger problems than they should.
You mean they dragged their feet and baulked at paying the usually outrageous fees companies charge for providing 'services' to the NHS?
Or, maybe, was the contribution to your big fat salary and pension in danger?
Companies seem to see the NHS as a bloody big cash cow, I for one, would back turning the screw slowly on some of the 'agencies' they use and a lot of others.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:04 am

Hoboh wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:47 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:07 am
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:43 pm
Lord Kangana wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:05 am
The NHS is getting an extra £18.2bn soon so problems like that should be sorted.
It's not all about money fer'cris'sake!!! (despite you being the most sarcastic poster in Christendom, so no I didn't miss the sarcasm).
As I made plain, it's about management. If a small GP practice in the middle of the countryside and a hospital in a medium sized city can get it consistently right all the time and be rated rated Outstanding in every single area, why cant the rest? Or are you of the knobbish opinion that somehow myGP's practice and my hospital are funded at the expense of yours?
So to reiterate: This constant bollocks about expenditure and finances in the NHS, is just that; politically driven bollox. A superb NHS that is consistent and world leading exists on the present budget. If it's failing in your area that is purely down to piss poor management of the resources available. Hoboh's six week wait for a scan transfer between departments has nothing to do with budget, politics, Brexit or anything other than terrible local management
The NHS is sliding down international performance league tables, last time I checked. Fact is that it is under resourced.
I've worked directly for a business supplying services to the NHS in the past. I've seen it close up. Its under resourced and getting worse.
Yes of course in many cases it provides absolutely brilliant care. But minor pressures in the system cause far bigger problems than they should.
You mean they dragged their feet and baulked at paying the usually outrageous fees companies charge for providing 'services' to the NHS?
Or, maybe, was the contribution to your big fat salary and pension in danger?
Companies seem to see the NHS as a bloody big cash cow, I for one, would back turning the screw slowly on some of the 'agencies' they use and a lot of others.
1) I don't work for that company anymore. It was years ago, during the Blair government. The NHS did outsource a lot then on the non-care side, but there was good reason to in some cases. They actually got a good deal out of us, we did a lot on top that we didn't charge for because we understood the pressures they were under. Plus it was a really exciting time.

2) One of the problems was, a lot of out-sourcing and contracts were given to companies that didn't understand the NHS or healthcare provision. Because they were cheap. This was a major error at the time. There was money in the system then, but NHS managers were sometimes too frugal for their own good. Pinching a pound to save a penny, but losing out down the line.

3) I want the NHS resourced because its an important institution that took a world lead in provision of free at the point of delivery healthcare. I want to preserve it. I no longer work for a company that would supply services to the NHS, so my desire for it to be properly resourced is simply my opinion on the right thing to do.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by boltonboris » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:31 pm

I believe the NHS recently acquired a sh*t load of new desktop / Laptop computers for numerous sites across the UK - Thousands of them.

I also believe that they cost over a Thousand £ each, for just normal Toshiba(?) gear - Didn't include anything out of the ordinary, no add-on packs - Just the hardware.

That to me, isn't just mis-use of funds. It's more likely, corrupt
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by boltonboris » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:33 pm

And before you start - The person who told me, is very close to me and works inside of the organisation. I won;t elaborate

Also, I generally have absolutely nothing but positive experiences of the NHS (except for a couple of pretty scary letters sent to me by mistake!) so have absolutely nothing against them. Long live the NHS as far as I'm concerned
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Prufrock » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:44 am

Whenever it comes to a cock up in a public/quasi public organisation like that, I'd give you a 100-1 every time on it being a feck up. It's never ever a conspiracy, it's just massive roll outs of stuff that gets out of hand in an organisation that has, say 500 people to send it out to.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:09 am

As someone that has had responsibility in the past for buying some equipment and services for a large public organisation, and been on the other side providing the services and equipment I can say this...

It's usually a mixture of well meaning but inflexible rules and guidelines and a lack of practical knowledge of using the equipment or service being sourced. Often the guidelines are such that very large companies are the only ones that stand a chance of winning the contract. The criteria used usually leans too far towards price or quality, ending up with cheap and shit, or expensive for the sake of it. Purchasing departments often don't spend enough time creating the tender with the actual people who use the equipment/service and really should co-opt them onto the committee for that tender. I never saw any corruption. I'm sure some goes on, but most feck ups are usually down to competence and stupid rules.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:31 am

Without being over judgemental without knowing the full story, this did cause a surprise, to say the least.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -year.html
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lord Kangana » Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:08 pm

Can you give us a precis please Tango.

I refuse where ever possible to give money to the irresponsible scumbags who give the Daily Mail it's editorial stance.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:29 pm

Lord Kangana wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:08 pm
Can you give us a precis please Tango. I refuse where ever possible to give money to the irresponsible scumbags who give the Daily Mail it's editorial stance.
I just read an article and link someone on another site posted. Effectively, it is claimed (not by me, note) :

"A Mail on Sunday investigation has found that thousands of crutches, walking frames, sticks and wheelchairs are systematically dumped in skips or never returned to hospitals, costing taxpayers millions."

That's the bones of it. The rest is expanded on in the article and a couple of M.P's are supposedly calling for investigation. That's all I have.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:38 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:31 pm
I believe the NHS recently acquired a sh*t load of new desktop / Laptop computers for numerous sites across the UK - Thousands of them.

I also believe that they cost over a Thousand £ each, for just normal Toshiba(?) gear - Didn't include anything out of the ordinary, no add-on packs - Just the hardware.

That to me, isn't just mis-use of funds. It's more likely, corrupt
This stuff is usually always exaggerated. However, it is almost always a result of procurement rules set by central government, that result in purchasing poorly. The right want to depoliticise the NHS for good reason. They don't want to see how they under resource it deliberately and set it up to fail.

Every single person who blames 'waste' and 'poor management' rather than a meddling, asset stripping government plays right into their hands.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Hoboh » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:21 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:38 pm
boltonboris wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:31 pm
I believe the NHS recently acquired a sh*t load of new desktop / Laptop computers for numerous sites across the UK - Thousands of them.

I also believe that they cost over a Thousand £ each, for just normal Toshiba(?) gear - Didn't include anything out of the ordinary, no add-on packs - Just the hardware.

That to me, isn't just mis-use of funds. It's more likely, corrupt
This stuff is usually always exaggerated. However, it is almost always a result of procurement rules set by central government, that result in purchasing poorly. The right want to depoliticise the NHS for good reason. They don't want to see how they under resource it deliberately and set it up to fail.

Every single person who blames 'waste' and 'poor management' rather than a meddling, asset stripping government plays right into their hands.

Soooo, under comrade Jezzer and chairman McDonald, pigeon post and the abacus are due to return so they get more bang for their buck, or will they be employing the black clad ninja scrotes to deliver messages via a brick through the widow?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:10 pm

Trump being lambasted down the pub again, on a Sunday afternoon after he's done nothing in particular. When I pointed out that Johnson, Nixon, and Reagan were just as imbecilic and dangerous if not more so, (especially given that two of them were covertly complicit in creating the world's most recent successful genocidal despot). After blank looks all round it appears that Pol Pot, and America's part in his creation has been forgotten by my generation.
It gave me a chilling insight into why history is so often doomed to repeat itself.
Let's hope the Spaniards remember 1936 a little bit longer than old duffers down the pub remember Year Zero.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:28 pm

The National Institute of Economic and Social Research is now saying that the areas with the most votes for Brexit were "not voting against their economic interests" and that indeed, the areas that voted Remain were more likely to suffer economic pain from an exit.
This basically means that the 44 million people outside of London and Scotland have said 'feck you Londoners and Scottish people (39% of you who aren't even native)' you just voted for your own interests which are stacked against ours.'
Obviously there are one or two in't'north who feel more metropolitan/Scot than the rest of us plebs, but equally there are 45% of Scots/Londoners who agree with the majority.
Amazingly (not) nearly 97% of immigrants/asylum seekers/non-domiciles/dependents of people born outside of the UK, resident in Greater London arr against Brexit, whereas only 62% outside of London feel the same.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:48 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:28 pm
The National Institute of Economic and Social Research is now saying that the areas with the most votes for Brexit were "not voting against their economic interests" and that indeed, the areas that voted Remain were more likely to suffer economic pain fromw an exit.
This basically means that the 44 million people outside of London and Scotland have said 'feck you Londoners and Scottish people (39% of you who aren't even native)' you just voted for your own interests which are stacked against ours.'
Obviously there are one or two in't'north who feel more metropolitan/Scot than the rest of us plebs, but equally there are 45% of Scots/Londoners who agree with the majority.
Amazingly (not) nearly 97% of immigrants/asylum seekers/non-domiciles/dependents of people born outside of the UK, resident in Greater London arr against Brexit, whereas only 62% outside of London feel the same.
And this is the killer... "it is important to remember that the differences in expected impacts are swamped by existing disparities"
In other words if your fxcked now you'll be even more fxcked, but if you're not fxcked now maybe you'll get yet more fxcked than I'll be by March 2019. Only the rich and (imagined in their own heads) privileged won't understand why that is a driving factor
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:44 am

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:28 pm
The National Institute of Economic and Social Research is now saying that the areas with the most votes for Brexit were "not voting against their economic interests" and that indeed, the areas that voted Remain were more likely to suffer economic pain from an exit.
This basically means that the 44 million people outside of London and Scotland have said 'feck you Londoners and Scottish people (39% of you who aren't even native)' you just voted for your own interests which are stacked against ours.'
Obviously there are one or two in't'north who feel more metropolitan/Scot than the rest of us plebs, but equally there are 45% of Scots/Londoners who agree with the majority.
Amazingly (not) nearly 97% of immigrants/asylum seekers/non-domiciles/dependents of people born outside of the UK, resident in Greater London arr against Brexit, whereas only 62% outside of London feel the same.
I see you missed out the bit where they said that Brexit has almost certainly "cost each household an average of £600" and caused economic growth stagnation.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Hoboh » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:31 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:44 am
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:28 pm
The National Institute of Economic and Social Research is now saying that the areas with the most votes for Brexit were "not voting against their economic interests" and that indeed, the areas that voted Remain were more likely to suffer economic pain from an exit.
This basically means that the 44 million people outside of London and Scotland have said 'feck you Londoners and Scottish people (39% of you who aren't even native)' you just voted for your own interests which are stacked against ours.'
Obviously there are one or two in't'north who feel more metropolitan/Scot than the rest of us plebs, but equally there are 45% of Scots/Londoners who agree with the majority.
Amazingly (not) nearly 97% of immigrants/asylum seekers/non-domiciles/dependents of people born outside of the UK, resident in Greater London arr against Brexit, whereas only 62% outside of London feel the same.
I see you missed out the bit where they said that Brexit has almost certainly
"cost each household an average of £600"
and caused economic growth stagnation.
You mean like the 4 grand a year the EU was supposed to be worth to every family? That most could never find evidence of???

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