What happened: Death of Jean Charles de Menezes

[William the White]

Thank you for the correction/clarification. I whole-heartedly share your final sentiment...

I'm the literary executor of the man who wrote the first draft of said document - I'm afraid I correct things like that without thinking - possibly I should think a little more and be less pedantic! At least we are on the same side in this thread.

I don't think you're being pedantic. I thought eleanor roosevelt was deeply involved? Who was the first drafter?

[Montreal Wanderer]

Thank you for the correction/clarification. I whole-heartedly share your final sentiment...

I'm the literary executor of the man who wrote the first draft of said document - I'm afraid I correct things like that without thinking - possibly I should think a little more and be less pedantic! At least we are on the same side in this thread.

I don't think you're being pedantic. I thought eleanor roosevelt was deeply involved? Who was the first drafter?

Eleanor Roosevelt was chairman [sic - she insisted on that] of the Human Rights Commission, the political body charged with developing an International Bill of Rights (Declaration, Convention and means of implementation). The other members of the executive were the Vice-Chairman P.C. Chang (a Chinese pluralist) and the rapporteur Charles Malik (a Lebanese Thomist) - both brilliant men. The executive asked the Director of the UN Secretariat Division of Human Rights, John Peters Humphrey, to prepare a first draft for the Commission. For many years credit was given to the French Representative, René Cassin, for writing the first draft. In 1988, by chance, I found the first handwritten draft in an old filing cabinet and was able to correct that error, subsequently becoming Humphrey's literary executor after his death. From the first draft in June 1947 to the final Declaration in December 1948 hundreds of people were involved (governments, NGOs and individuals) in working with the texts. None were more important than Chang and Malik, although Mrs. Roosevelt's enormous personal prestige was also critical.

[William the White]

Thank you for the correction/clarification. I whole-heartedly share your final sentiment...

I'm the literary executor of the man who wrote the first draft of said document - I'm afraid I correct things like that without thinking - possibly I should think a little more and be less pedantic! At least we are on the same side in this thread.

I don't think you're being pedantic. I thought eleanor roosevelt was deeply involved? Who was the first drafter?

Eleanor Roosevelt was chairman [sic - she insisted on that] of the Human Rights Commission, the political body charged with developing an International Bill of Rights (Declaration, Convention and means of implementation). The other members of the executive were the Vice-Chairman P.C. Chang (a Chinese pluralist) and the rapporteur Charles Malik (a Lebanese Thomist) - both brilliant men. The executive asked the Director of the UN Secretariat Division of Human Rights, John Peters Humphrey, to prepare a first draft for the Commission. For many years credit was given to the French Representative, René Cassin, for writing the first draft. In 1988, by chance, I found the first handwritten draft in an old filing cabinet and was able to correct that error, subsequently becoming Humphrey's literary executor after his death. From the first draft in June 1947 to the final Declaration in December 1948 hundreds of people were involved (governments, NGOs and individuals) in working with the texts. None were more important than Chang and Malik, although Mrs. Roosevelt's enormous personal prestige was also critical.

you a historian by trade, monty? i was for a couple of degrees - though changed course long ago.

[Hoboh]

Oh Lordy Lord
When ever have signed bits of paper however well intentioned stopped killings and suicide bombers??
Don't say N Ireland it still happens now but they have been re-labeled criminals! and the media have moved on.
The Middle East is awash with the litter of signed documents and broken rights, African leaders just rape and slaughter all opposition with scant regard to any rights, all the worlds hotspots are filled with hate and people who will maim and kill children, women, old folk, anyone to further their aims and we are expected to sit behind our Western ways and protocols and except it because it makes us feel better than them? IMO this makes the folks that hold this veiw the real racisits, the ones with the supriour we are more civilised and cultured than you attitude.

Think about it!

[Montreal Wanderer]

you a historian by trade, monty? i was for a couple of degrees - though changed course long ago.

An historian by education, a university librarian by trade (which does provide the opportunity to write or rewrite a little history).

[Montreal Wanderer]

Oh Lordy Lord
When ever have signed bits of paper however well intentioned stopped killings and suicide bombers??
Don't say N Ireland it still happens now but they have been re-labeled criminals! and the media have moved on.
The Middle East is awash with the litter of signed documents and broken rights, African leaders just rape and slaughter all opposition with scant regard to any rights, all the worlds hotspots are filled with hate and people who will maim and kill children, women, old folk, anyone to further their aims and we are expected to sit behind our Western ways and protocols and except it because it makes us feel better than them? IMO this makes the folks that hold this veiw the real racisits, the ones with the supriour we are more civilised and cultured than you attitude.

Think about it!

Whenever has the law of England, written on bits of paper, stopped old men molesting children or serial killers going about their business, or others otherwise breaking it? Does it mean we get rid of the laws? Perhaps you should think more about it too.

[Hoboh]

Oh Lordy Lord
When ever have signed bits of paper however well intentioned stopped killings and suicide bombers??
Don't say N Ireland it still happens now but they have been re-labeled criminals! and the media have moved on.
The Middle East is awash with the litter of signed documents and broken rights, African leaders just rape and slaughter all opposition with scant regard to any rights, all the worlds hotspots are filled with hate and people who will maim and kill children, women, old folk, anyone to further their aims and we are expected to sit behind our Western ways and protocols and except it because it makes us feel better than them? IMO this makes the folks that hold this veiw the real racisits, the ones with the supriour we are more civilised and cultured than you attitude.

Think about it!

Whenever has the law of England, written on bits of paper, stopped old men molesting children or serial killers going about their business, or others otherwise breaking it? Does it mean we get rid of the laws? Perhaps you should think more about it too.

Not saying that at all, but the people who carry out these acts do not recognise nor respect our laws, nor in all honesty should they have too unless they live in this country.
If they do live in this country and fail to respect or recognise and follow our laws they should be sent to the places whose customs, laws etc they aspire to follow
And for this I am labeled a racisist to which I object

[Montreal Wanderer]

Oh Lordy Lord
When ever have signed bits of paper however well intentioned stopped killings and suicide bombers??
Don't say N Ireland it still happens now but they have been re-labeled criminals! and the media have moved on.
The Middle East is awash with the litter of signed documents and broken rights, African leaders just rape and slaughter all opposition with scant regard to any rights, all the worlds hotspots are filled with hate and people who will maim and kill children, women, old folk, anyone to further their aims and we are expected to sit behind our Western ways and protocols and except it because it makes us feel better than them? IMO this makes the folks that hold this veiw the real racisits, the ones with the supriour we are more civilised and cultured than you attitude.

Think about it!

Whenever has the law of England, written on bits of paper, stopped old men molesting children or serial killers going about their business, or others otherwise breaking it? Does it mean we get rid of the laws? Perhaps you should think more about it too.

Not saying that at all, but the people who carry out these acts do not recognise nor respect our laws, nor in all honesty should they have too unless they live in this country.
If they do live in this country and fail to respect or recognise and follow our laws they should be sent to the places whose customs, laws etc they aspire to follow
And for this I am labeled a racisist to which I object

I did not label you a racist but you did suggest that British citizens, born here, should be deported to some unspecified Muslim country because they engaged, or were suspected of engaging, in acts of terror. I know of no country where blowing up public transport and the slaughter of innocents is condoned by the law incidentally. Deporting criminals is not a good answer - Lord, we tried it once and ended up with Australia.

[superjohnmcginlay]

Oh Lordy Lord
When ever have signed bits of paper however well intentioned stopped killings and suicide bombers??
Don't say N Ireland it still happens now but they have been re-labeled criminals! and the media have moved on.
The Middle East is awash with the litter of signed documents and broken rights, African leaders just rape and slaughter all opposition with scant regard to any rights, all the worlds hotspots are filled with hate and people who will maim and kill children, women, old folk, anyone to further their aims and we are expected to sit behind our Western ways and protocols and except it because it makes us feel better than them? IMO this makes the folks that hold this veiw the real racisits, the ones with the supriour we are more civilised and cultured than you attitude.

Think about it!

Whenever has the law of England, written on bits of paper, stopped old men molesting children or serial killers going about their business, or others otherwise breaking it? Does it mean we get rid of the laws? Perhaps you should think more about it too.

Not saying that at all, but the people who carry out these acts do not recognise nor respect our laws, nor in all honesty should they have too unless they live in this country.
If they do live in this country and fail to respect or recognise and follow our laws they should be sent to the places whose customs, laws etc they aspire to follow
And for this I am labeled a racisist to which I object

I did not label you a racist but you did suggest that British citizens, born here, should be deported to some unspecified Muslim country because they engaged, or were suspected of engaging, in acts of terror. I know of no country where blowing up public transport and the slaughter of innocents is condoned by the law incidentally. Deporting criminals is not a good answer - Lord, we tried it once and ended up with Australia.

Bloody good point. We cant have that happening again.

[Hoboh]

[Verbal]

Programme on telly tonight about this, a docu drama.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... drama.html