Manchester Congestion Charge

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Lord Kangana
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Post by Lord Kangana » Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:57 pm

Heres an interesting thought, why don't they ask people how often and when they'd like the public transport to run, improve it over the course of a few years to the point where its a fantastic alternative to using your car advertise it as such (like they've advertised this), and then try again. I know I'm practically insane for suggesting such a simple idea, but its worth a thought, surely?
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Post by hisroyalgingerness » Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:19 pm

LeeRoyBrown wrote:
ratbert wrote:People moan about public transport not being good enough. Then when someone comes up with an answer it gets turned down.

Perhaps it's time to start basing the right to vote on an IQ test. Hope you enjoy the endless traffic jams!

:crazy:
It was the wrong solution to come up with. I think thats why people said no. At a time of economic struggle and already very expensive car tax and MOTs, the congestion charge would never win.
All the conversations I heard on the trains were a no. All anyone could see happening was more people would come onto the trains and trams, and people had little faith that they'd improve enough to cope. You only have to see the difference on the days when it snows (when the trains didn't run all that bad to be fair) to see the impact of even a few people swapping cars for public

The public transport bit was only one issue in it all. If you were looking to move some offices oop norf and one city had a congestion charge and another didn't, would that affect a businesses decision and if so would less people invest in the city?

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Post by TANGODANCER » Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:52 pm

Might be worth considering how many of the voters actually travel into Manchester daily, weekly? Those that don't may well be yes voters. There are also those who already use public transport; they'll probably vote yes. Put that against those who travel in every day and delivery companies with a dozen vehicles on the road daily. They'll probably constitute the biggest percentage of no voters. I didn't vote at all on the basis of, as a none driver, it costing me nothing but will hit the drivers hard if the yes vote had won the day.
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Post by Hoboh » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:03 pm

Lord Kangana wrote:Heres an interesting thought, why don't they ask people how often and when they'd like the public transport to run, improve it over the course of a few years to the point where its a fantastic alternative to using your car advertise it as such (like they've advertised this), and then try again. I know I'm practically insane for suggesting such a simple idea, but its worth a thought, surely?
That won't remove the problem of sitting next to a smelly, drunk, in the midst of a gang of d*ckheads, next to the woman with uncontrolable brats, etc and not being able to listen to whatever you want on the radio, CD or chuckling out loud at something funny, for fear of being branded a weirdo.

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Post by warthog » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:09 pm

hoboh2o wrote:
Lord Kangana wrote:Heres an interesting thought, why don't they ask people how often and when they'd like the public transport to run, improve it over the course of a few years to the point where its a fantastic alternative to using your car advertise it as such (like they've advertised this), and then try again. I know I'm practically insane for suggesting such a simple idea, but its worth a thought, surely?
That won't remove the problem of sitting next to a smelly, drunk, in the midst of a gang of d*ckheads, next to the woman with uncontrolable brats, etc and not being able to listen to whatever you want on the radio, CD or chuckling out loud at something funny, for fear of being branded a weirdo.
Stop giving these people lifts then!

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Post by Worthy4England » Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:14 pm

warthog wrote:
hoboh2o wrote:
Lord Kangana wrote:Heres an interesting thought, why don't they ask people how often and when they'd like the public transport to run, improve it over the course of a few years to the point where its a fantastic alternative to using your car advertise it as such (like they've advertised this), and then try again. I know I'm practically insane for suggesting such a simple idea, but its worth a thought, surely?
That won't remove the problem of sitting next to a smelly, drunk, in the midst of a gang of d*ckheads, next to the woman with uncontrolable brats, etc and not being able to listen to whatever you want on the radio, CD or chuckling out loud at something funny, for fear of being branded a weirdo.
Stop giving these people lifts then!
:lol:

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Post by mofgimmers » Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:35 pm

hoboh2o wrote:That won't remove the problem of sitting next to a smelly, drunk, in the midst of a gang of d*ckheads, next to the woman with uncontrolable brats, etc and not being able to listen to whatever you want on the radio, CD or chuckling out loud at something funny, for fear of being branded a weirdo.
- Smelly drunks don't tend to travel much, preferring their locals or park benches.
- A gang of dickheads? Try every pub in England.
- Women with uncontrollable brats? They tend to drive 4x4s.
- iPods.
- Chuckling is not frowned upon in Britain, contrary to popular belief.
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Post by communistworkethic » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:04 pm

ratbert wrote:People moan about public transport not being good enough. Then when someone comes up with an answer it gets turned down.

Perhaps it's time to start basing the right to vote on an IQ test. Hope you enjoy the endless traffic jams!

:crazy:
if you're so pro-public transport why do you own a car?
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Post by Prufrock » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:08 pm

ratbert wrote:People moan about public transport not being good enough. Then when someone comes up with an answer it gets turned down.

Perhaps it's time to start basing the right to vote on an IQ test. Hope you enjoy the endless traffic jams!

:crazy:
I'd have voted yes Ratty, but the people have spoken. Obviously there needs to be a better idea. Years of poor public transport means people arent convinced by promises of money being chucked at it, as money isn't enough.
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Post by communistworkethic » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:14 pm

the big problem with public transport? The public.
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Post by davroduk » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:25 pm

Just a thought.

If more people were to use public transport and leave their cars at home, then where would the revenue come from to pay off the massive loans taken out to improve said public transport ??????
Seems a bit of a contradiction to me, that the very source of revenue is the one thing they wanted to reduce. (ie Cars)
I personally use the train whenever I go into Manchester (Yes its sometimes full of Idiots), but its still cheaper than driving and paying for parking.
What I would have got out of the Congestion Charge would have been a coat of paint, and CCTV Cameras at my local station, and even more overcrowded trains.
Not value for money in my opinion.
People who live in a few select areas of Manchester would have got Metrolink extentions and new train stations. (quids in for them).
It seemed to me that the further away from the center you lived the less you got out of it. (Apart from overcrowded trains)
Yes public transport needs to be improved, but to make the people who dont use it pay for it, doesnt seem like a good idea to me, and hence the NO Vote from the Duk household.
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Post by finlayson » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:11 pm

Up next Fluoridisation.

Big fat no to the poisoning of our water, thank you.

I don't want brittle bones in later life because the underclass can't teach their kids to brush their teeth properly.

24 years with no fillings from regular brushing here!

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Post by malcd1 » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:57 pm

This congestion charge is great if you want to travel from Bolton to the centre of Manchester. What if you travel to Trafford, Failsworth, Stretford, Chorlton or Reddish. There is no public transport for a direct journey. You have to go into Manchester and then out again. Who in their right mind would contemplate a 2 hour journey when it may only take them 45 minutes by car?

Also there is absolutely no benefit for this congestion charge if you live in Bolton. They were only proposing to put on extra buses and an additional train carriage here and there. Nothing else. The trains at rush hour are practically at busting point as it is. To then contemplate increasing this amount of train passengers by 100% would be a complete disaster.

I personally voted No on principle. This government is quite willing to let only the rich drive and force everyone else to travel by an inadequate public transport. And before anyone suggests this congestion charge would not improve public transport by any significant degree.

I'm glad the public has voted no. I just hope our idiot, incompetent councillors take notice.

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Post by malcd1 » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:10 pm

Car drivers - We'll get you back for turning down the congestion charge.

Clicky on da linky

£350 A Year - To Park At Work!


The charge would be levied by councils under powers already granted by the 2000 Transport Act.

The move - already condemned by some businesses and motoring groups - will be put out to a 12-week consultation in March.

Companies are expected to pass the charge on to employees, meaning a monthly bill of up to about £28 a month.

Nottingham City Council has already said it plans to introduce a workplace levy scheme from April 2010.

It has said it wants to charge an initial rate of £185 a year for a parking space - but admits that could rise to £350 a year by 2014.

Some 500 firms with 10 or more parking spaces would be liable for the charge.

Boots, which employs 9,000 people at its Nottingham headquarters, told the Daily Mail: "Boots are not in support of the workplace parking levy initiative.

"This is a tax on businesses and not a means of reducing the impact of traffic congestion.

"Boots and other businesses in Nottingham have objected to this policy consistently over the past 10 years and do not see this as a viable means of supporting Nottingham's future transport needs."

The new scheme would be monitored by CCTV as well as spot checks and number plate recognition systems.

However, the move could face a legal challenge from business leaders.

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Post by William the White » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:19 pm

Part of the minority voting 'yes'.

I own a car. but get the bus into work most days.

Need a car because there's no serious bus service after 18.30.

And was hoping that public transport would actually improve...

mostly park in bolton centre and get the train when going to manchester, which I do quite a lot, theatre, movies I like not in bolton multiplexes, couple of restaurants I like etc. but this is mostly in the evening and wouldn't have been affected by charge anyway.

was a touch of malice there also, of which, i am, of course, deeply ashamed...

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Post by Hoboh » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:45 pm

malcd1 wrote:Car drivers - We'll get you back for turning down the congestion charge.

£350 A Year - To Park At Work!


The charge would be levied by councils under powers already granted by the 2000 Transport Act.

The move - already condemned by some businesses and motoring groups - will be put out to a 12-week consultation in March.

Companies are expected to pass the charge on to employees, meaning a monthly bill of up to about £28 a month.

Nottingham City Council has already said it plans to introduce a workplace levy scheme from April 2010.

It has said it wants to charge an initial rate of £185 a year for a parking space - but admits that could rise to £350 a year by 2014.

Some 500 firms with 10 or more parking spaces would be liable for the charge.

Boots, which employs 9,000 people at its Nottingham headquarters, told the Daily Mail: "Boots are not in support of the workplace parking levy initiative.

"This is a tax on businesses and not a means of reducing the impact of traffic congestion.

"Boots and other businesses in Nottingham have objected to this policy consistently over the past 10 years and do not see this as a viable means of supporting Nottingham's future transport needs."

The new scheme would be monitored by CCTV as well as spot checks and number plate recognition systems.

However, the move could face a legal challenge from business leaders.

Easy, park on the road and walk round the corner, leave empty car parks and bollocks to the bloody brown nose Goverment!


From My thread on MSN


Why should the car drivers be paying money to fund improvements to bus and rail routes? lets take a step back here!
The bus and rail companies are PRIVATE multi million pound profit making companies, isn't it normal for these to raise capital to invest for future profits? after all it is they that will benefit most from increased passenger numbers. Would these measures help global warming to any great extent? or swell the coffers of private companies and their share holders and in turn raise extra revenue for the government?
If global warming is such a major issue we should refuse to buy Chinese, Indian and other developing countries goods to stop them belching out the toxic emissions they do, stop drinking coffee until the south American countries stop destroying the rain forests, plant millions of trees across the vast acres of open countryside etc etc. Not one of these measures involves ripping off more of our hard earned in the form of stealth tax. Trains are over crowded and unreliable, bus journeys take, even on clear roads up to 50% longer than travel by car and you cannot choose your company for your journey if any at all!
No vote, best result ever! maybe they might consult next time before wasting thousands on publicity.

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Post by William the White » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:55 pm

hoboh2o wrote:
malcd1 wrote:Car drivers - We'll get you back for turning down the congestion charge.


£350 A Year - To Park At Work!


The charge would be levied by councils under powers already granted by the 2000 Transport Act.

The move - already condemned by some businesses and motoring groups - will be put out to a 12-week consultation in March.

Companies are expected to pass the charge on to employees, meaning a monthly bill of up to about £28 a month.

Nottingham City Council has already said it plans to introduce a workplace levy scheme from April 2010.

It has said it wants to charge an initial rate of £185 a year for a parking space - but admits that could rise to £350 a year by 2014.

Some 500 firms with 10 or more parking spaces would be liable for the charge.

Boots, which employs 9,000 people at its Nottingham headquarters, told the Daily Mail: "Boots are not in support of the workplace parking levy initiative.

"This is a tax on businesses and not a means of reducing the impact of traffic congestion.

"Boots and other businesses in Nottingham have objected to this policy consistently over the past 10 years and do not see this as a viable means of supporting Nottingham's future transport needs."

The new scheme would be monitored by CCTV as well as spot checks and number plate recognition systems.

However, the move could face a legal challenge from business leaders.

Easy, park on the road and walk round the corner, leave empty car parks and bollocks to the bloody brown nose Goverment!


From My thread on MSN


Why should the car drivers be paying money to fund improvements to bus and rail routes? lets take a step back here!
The bus and rail companies are PRIVATE multi million pound profit making companies, isn't it normal for these to raise capital to invest for future profits? after all it is they that will benefit most from increased passenger numbers. Would these measures help global warming to any great extent? or swell the coffers of private companies and their share holders and in turn raise extra revenue for the government?
If global warming is such a major issue we should refuse to buy Chinese, Indian and other developing countries goods to stop them belching out the toxic emissions they do, stop drinking coffee until the south American countries stop destroying the rain forests, plant millions of trees across the vast acres of open countryside etc etc. Not one of these measures involves ripping off more of our hard earned in the form of stealth tax. Trains are over crowded and unreliable, bus journeys take, even on clear roads up to 50% longer than travel by car and you cannot choose your company for your journey if any at all!
No vote, best result ever! maybe they might consult next time before wasting thousands on publicity.
Not denying the accuracy of your account of our pretty abysmal public transport, owned, as you say, by private companies.

But just want to point out that isn't, as it were, the natural order of things.

In continental western europe public transport is considered a social and economic necessity benefitting the entire community, and too important to be left to profiteers.

the fools.

they end up with excellent, affordable public transport.

as those travelling in france, germany, spain and - even - portugal can confirm [others not mentioned because i've no recent personal experience]...

someone should bring them to their senses...

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Post by Lord Kangana » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:57 pm

Bloody Europeans and their easy liberal virtue.
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Post by TANGODANCER » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:03 am

I wonder how much the voting campaign and its admin actually did cost? You can look at about £1 each for the forms printing, post and return post and then there's the admin costs for the processing. Add in the initial designing and all the relevant meeting involved and it gets quite serious. Somebody will have to pay for all that eventually via taxes no doubt.
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Post by Hoboh » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:07 am

Lord Kangana wrote:Bloody Europeans and their easy liberal virtue.
:D Actually one of the best forms of public transport Ive used was the rail link betweeb Barcelona and the Costa Brava was chuffin' ace

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