Soldiers parade

[BwfcDan]

Regiment to receive Freedom of Bolton
The Mayor of Bolton, Councillor Anthony Connell, will present a regiment of soldiers with the Freedom of the Borough at a ceremony on Saturday (14/03).

The honour will be accepted on behalf of the Duke of Lancaster Regiment by the Deputy Colonel, Colonel Steve Davies, and will mean that the soldiers will become Freemen of the town.

Victoria Square will come alive with military splendour as 150 men and women from the regiment march from the Army barracks in Nelson Street to watch the ceremony and then process around the town hall before joining the Mayor and invited guests for a celebratory luncheon.

Its before the match because afterwards they are coming to the Reebok to watch the game. And are on the pitch at half time.
Get in town and show your support. Lets hope no nobs turn up protesting.

[finlayson]

Lets hope no nobs turn up protesting.

If they do I don't think they will get the protection they did in Luton, after speaking to my GMP mate. Orders have come from on high that what happened in Luton shall not happen again!

It was good to see the Duke of Lancasters on Victoria Square every day this week too!

[William the White]

If people want to protest with placards and chants that is their right.

Simple as.

Like it or not.

Freedom of speech is only meaningful for those you disagree with...

No great effort to give it to those whose every word you endorse, is it?

Didn't see anything in Luton that overstepped any boundary in a democracy - even if those protesting didn't themselves believe in democracy...

[Verbal]

If people want to protest with placards and chants that is their right.

Simple as.

Like it or not.

Freedom of speech is only meaningful for those you disagree with...

No great effort to give it to those whose every word you endorse, is it?

Didn't see anything in Luton that overstepped any boundary in a democracy - even if those protesting didn't themselves believe in democracy...

Aye, taleban supporters according to the show last night with Portillo on (I forget its name, BBC programme, rather good...the host was saying he had heard whispers that Darling may do a 'Geoffrey Howe'...)

Either way, as Evelyn Beatrice Hall said, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it,"

Emphasis on the say. People can protest on what they want, it is their right. But when it spills over into tangible action, that is when action needs to be taken.

[TANGODANCER]

I can just imagine how well a group of Brits protesting in Iran, or somwhere like, would go down. Free speech is fine if it applies to all. Unfortunately, it doesn't.

Edited.

[Prufrock]

I can just imagine how well a group of Brits protesting in Iran, or somwhere like, would go down. Free speech is fine if it applies to all. Unfortuantely, it doesn't.

What's that got to do with anything. All we control is what happens in this country, where free speech does apply to everybody.

[William the White]

I can just imagine how well a group of Brits protesting in Iran, or somwhere like, would go down. Free speech is fine if it applies to all. Unfortuantely, it doesn't.

But fortunately for these protesters it does here.

And fortunately for us as well...

[Dujon]

Regiment to receive Freedom of Bolton
Its before the match because afterwards they are coming to the Reebok to watch the game. And are on the pitch at half time.
Get in town and show your support. Lets hope no nobs turn up protesting.

Ruddy 'eck, BwfcDan; you've got me all hot and sweaty now!

Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more,
Or close the wall up with our English dead!
In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
As modest stillness and humility,
But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
Then imitate the action of the tiger:
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favored rage;
Then lend the eye a terrible aspect:
Let it pry through the portage of the head
Like the brass cannon; let the brow o'erwhelm it
As fearfully as doth a gallèd rock
O'erhang and jutty his confounded base,
Swilled with the wild and wasteful ocean.
Now set the teeth and stretch the nostril wide,
Hold hard the breath and bend up every spirit
To his full height! On, on, you noble English,
Whose blood is fet from fathers of war-proof,
Fathers that like so many Alexanders
Have in these parts from morn till even fought
And sheathed their swords for lack of argument.
Dishonor not your mothers; now attest
That those whom you called fathers did beget you!
Be copy now to men of grosser blood
And teach them how to war! And you, good yeomen,
Whose limbs were made in England, show us here
The mettle of your pasture. Let us swear
That you are worth your breeding; which I doubt not,
For there is none of you so mean and base
That hath not noble lustre in your eyes.
I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,
Straining upon the start. The game's afoot!
Follow your spirit; and upon this charge
Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'


We are after all only playing Fulham, although it does bring the foregoing to mind.

[William the White]

If people want to protest with placards and chants that is their right.

Simple as.

Like it or not.

Freedom of speech is only meaningful for those you disagree with...

No great effort to give it to those whose every word you endorse, is it?

Didn't see anything in Luton that overstepped any boundary in a democracy - even if those protesting didn't themselves believe in democracy...

Aye, taleban supporters according to the show last night with Portillo on (I forget its name, BBC programme, rather good...the host was saying he had heard whispers that Darling may do a 'Geoffrey Howe'...)

Either way, as Evelyn Beatrice Hall said, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it,"

Emphasis on the say. People can protest on what they want, it is their right. But when it spills over into tangible action, that is when action needs to be taken.

always thought that was Voltaire, but just researched to find you are correct... learn something every day...

What do you mean by action? There is nothing to prevent Taliban supporters organising a whole series of actions that are within the law. And rightly so. They can hold meetings, public protests, publish leaflets, books pamphlets, stand for council or parliament, send their children to fundamentalist evening clases, travel to afghanistan, go on marches and demonstrations... Their embrace of a vile reactionary fundamentalism is as big a mystery to me as the equivalent in fundamentalist christianity, and as repellant... Which 'action' do you think requires 'action' and what action does it require?

[Verbal]

If people want to protest with placards and chants that is their right.

Simple as.

Like it or not.

Freedom of speech is only meaningful for those you disagree with...

No great effort to give it to those whose every word you endorse, is it?

Didn't see anything in Luton that overstepped any boundary in a democracy - even if those protesting didn't themselves believe in democracy...

Aye, taleban supporters according to the show last night with Portillo on (I forget its name, BBC programme, rather good...the host was saying he had heard whispers that Darling may do a 'Geoffrey Howe'...)

Either way, as Evelyn Beatrice Hall said, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it,"

Emphasis on the say. People can protest on what they want, it is their right. But when it spills over into tangible action, that is when action needs to be taken.

always thought that was Voltaire, but just researched to find you are correct... learn something every day...

What do you mean by action? There is nothing to prevent Taliban supporters organising a whole series of actions that are within the law. And rightly so. They can hold meetings, public protests, publish leaflets, books pamphlets, stand for council or parliament, send their children to fundamentalist evening clases, travel to afghanistan, go on marches and demonstrations... Their embrace of a vile reactionary fundamentalism is as big a mystery to me as the equivalent in fundamentalist christianity, and as repellant... Which 'action' do you think requires 'action' and what action does it require?

Ofcourse William you are correct, late night has done my wording no favours whatsoever. I meant in the sense of actions which go outside of protests and voicing opinion and into the realm of violence, aggressive behaviour, and inciting such behaviour...and I imagine the police would deal with taht.

[finlayson]

If people want to protest with placards and chants that is their right.

Simple as.

Like it or not.

Freedom of speech is only meaningful for those you disagree with...

No great effort to give it to those whose every word you endorse, is it?

Didn't see anything in Luton that overstepped any boundary in a democracy - even if those protesting didn't themselves believe in democracy...

It may have been democracy, but it over stepped the lines of decency.

[William the White]

If people want to protest with placards and chants that is their right.

Simple as.

Like it or not.

Freedom of speech is only meaningful for those you disagree with...

No great effort to give it to those whose every word you endorse, is it?

Didn't see anything in Luton that overstepped any boundary in a democracy - even if those protesting didn't themselves believe in democracy...

It may have been democracy, but it over stepped the lines of decency.

#

Yep - agree with that. That happens in a democracy. In Iran and Iraq the equivalent behaviour might lead to imprisonment and worse. So, aren't you glad we don't live in that kind of tyranny?

[DJBlu]

If people want to protest with placards and chants that is their right.

Simple as.

Like it or not.

Freedom of speech is only meaningful for those you disagree with...

No great effort to give it to those whose every word you endorse, is it?

Didn't see anything in Luton that overstepped any boundary in a democracy - even if those protesting didn't themselves believe in democracy...

It may have been democracy, but it over stepped the lines of decency.

#

Yep - agree with that. That happens in a democracy. In Iran and Iraq the equivalent behaviour might lead to imprisonment and worse. So, aren't you glad we don't live in that kind of tyranny?

How can a person protest against an entity that is there to protect that right?

I am exercising my right of free speech when I say, The people who protested in Luton should be hung for treason. Fighting a battle is hard enough as it is, to then have to defend yourself in your home nation is beyond.

Just think on if anything did happen in this country you aint gonna fend off any enemies with Banners and Free Speech.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Freedom of expression... not an absolute right.

"Anglian Soliders Go To Hell" at a non-political celebration of our servicemen and women?

No, not for me thanks - if that's a free, democratic society you can keep it.

Easily enough to warrant taking a few in for questioning in relation to a possible offence of inciting racial hatred under the Public Order Act.... at least it would have got them out of the way for a while.

"The Public Order Act 1986 contains the offences of inciting or stirring up racial hatred. It prohibits the use of threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or displaying any written material which is threatening, abusive or insulting with the intention of stirring up racial hatred or where racial hatred is likely to be stirred up.

Racial hatred is defined as hatred against a group of persons in the United Kingdom defined by reference to colour, race, nationality - including citizenship - or ethnic or national origins."

http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights ... atred.html

[William the White]

Freedom of expression... not an absolute right.

"Anglian Soliders Go To Hell" at non-political celebration of our servicemen and women?

No, not for me thanks - if that's a free, democratic society you can keep it.

Easily enough to warrant taking a few in for questioning in relation to a possible offence of inciting racial hatred under the Public Order Act.... at least it would have got them out of the way for a while.

"The Public Order Act 1986 contains the offences of inciting or stirring up racial hatred. It prohibits the use of threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or displaying any written material which is threatening, abusive or insulting with the intention of stirring up racial hatred or where racial hatred is likely to be stirred up.

Racial hatred is defined as hatred against a group of persons in the United Kingdom defined by reference to colour, race, nationality - including citizenship - or ethnic or national origins."

http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights ... atred.html

I'm not clear where you think transgressions took place.

People should not be arrested to 'get them out of the way for a while' - but because there is reasonable suspicion that they've committed an offence. Myself, I'm pleased to live in a country where freedom of expression can apply to people who hate its armed forces and say so.

This is not the same, you understand, as agreeing with them. I don't, as a matter of fact, want our soldiers to be insulted. Neither do i want them killed - though since there's no such place they aren't in danger of going to hell. The actions of the government in sending them to an unnecessary and possibly illegal war put them in much greater danger of 'going to hell' than two dozen fanatics with placards.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I'm not clear where you think transgressions took place.

I'm contending that holding up a placard saying "Anglian Soldiers Go To Hell" comes within the definition of the offence of inciting racial hatred.

Also, if any celebration of our servicemen can be ruined by fanatics hurling insults (not reasonable individuals looking to engage in political debate), where then lies the freedom of expression of those who wish to express their gratitude for those who lay their lives on the line in this country's name? Sometimes, protecting freedom of expression involves preventing disruption/drowning out by others.

[William the White]

I'm not clear where you think transgressions took place.

I'm contending that holding up a placard saying "Anglian Soldiers Go To Hell" comes within the definition of the offence of inciting racial hatred.

Also, if any celebration of our servicemen can be ruined by fanatics hurling insults (not reasonable individuals looking to engage in political debate), where then lies the freedom of expression of those who wish to express their gratitude for those who lay their lives on the line in this country's name? Sometimes, protecting freedom of expression involves preventing disruption/drowning out by others.

Dubious that. But the police could have tested it with an arrest and charge and see whether it would be allowed to go to court. They didn't. were they wrong? It looked to me like you were advocating they pretend to do it in order to clear the streets of people whose message you despise - and, incidentally, so do I.

Freedom of expression - like other 'rights' - exists other than when proscribed by law... Do you want a law similar to those existing in more authoritarian countries which makes it illegal to insult the armed forces? Turkey has that law. Saddam's Iraq had also.

I don't hink it helps an argument to take it to ad absurdam - 'any celebration of our servicemen' is very, very unlikely to be routinely disrupted by fanatics. This one has attracted attention precisely because of its rarity.

[a1]

The soldiers should've just thrown loose change on the floor to distract them.

:/

[Lord Kangana]

There were probably more journalists than protesters there the other day. Says more about our media than anything else. Lot of fuss over nothing, typical that the usual suspects will go along with anything that Murdoch says.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I'm not clear where you think transgressions took place.

I'm contending that holding up a placard saying "Anglian Soldiers Go To Hell" comes within the definition of the offence of inciting racial hatred.

Also, if any celebration of our servicemen can be ruined by fanatics hurling insults (not reasonable individuals looking to engage in political debate), where then lies the freedom of expression of those who wish to express their gratitude for those who lay their lives on the line in this country's name? Sometimes, protecting freedom of expression involves preventing disruption/drowning out by others.

Dubious that. But the police could have tested it with an arrest and charge and see whether it would be allowed to go to court. They didn't. were they wrong? It looked to me like you were advocating they pretend to do it in order to clear the streets of people whose message you despise - and, incidentally, so do I.

Freedom of expression - like other 'rights' - exists other than when proscribed by law... Do you want a law similar to those existing in more authoritarian countries which makes it illegal to insult the armed forces? Turkey has that law. Saddam's Iraq had also.

I don't hink it helps an argument to take it to ad absurdam - 'any celebration of our servicemen' is very, very unlikely to be routinely disrupted by fanatics. This one has attracted attention precisely because of its rarity.

Well, I do believe it comes within the definitition of the offence, yes. Is light-touch policing the best policy when it comes to these delicate 'community' related matters? I don't know...

Look, I'm not arguing ad absurdam (even if we're approaching nauseam). I just think that celebrations of servicemen are themselves valid forms of expression that deserve protection.

This is the kind of case law on freedom of expression I have in mind....

Plattform "Arzte fur das Leben" v. Austria, 21 June 1988.

http://cmiskp.echr.coe.int/tkp197/view. ... n=hudoc-en

Para 32:

"In a democracy the right to counter-demonstrate cannot extend to inhibiting the exercise of the right to demonstrate."

I'd say it's at least arguable that the police are under an obligation to stop that kind of shouting of insults...