Today I'm angry about.....

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:25 pm

Gooner Girl wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:21 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:01 am


Ha! On locking down Exeter - can I ask how that would work in practice - given we know rates are high in and around the city compared to the rest of the county - how wide do you draw that circle? Do you stop people leaving the city - or coming in? How do you stop people who live in the boundary from getting bored and sneaking to local areas where businesses are open? How do you manage the creep as people start to stretch the rules because only a few miles away their mates are out in the pub?

That's the problem I have - it sounds nonsensical to restrict people in areas with low rates. But in practice I'm not sure there is an easy way to manage it on a different basis without some significant infrastructure put in place - you'd probably be looking at closing routes in and out of areas entirely to stop the natural creep out you get in that scenario.

I agree there is no easy answer - no trick that will work. The fundamental thing we did wrong was coming out of the initial lockdown too quickly - it should have been phased. I'm sure where you are you could have come out quite easily but in the NW the disease was still spreading at far too fast a rate. There needed to be a much slower and more phased plan because my overriding view is the only way to really tackle this is to find a permanent way of life that keeps the disease in check - since we simply do not know how long any solution may be or whether one may ever present itself. So for me defining what MUST be open at all costs, like schools and health providers - and then working out what other things were possible to be open alongside them to keep the R down - this was all measurable post lockdown if we'd done it carefully and slowly. Ultimately the data is there to know what impact opening hairdressers has or pubs - to a fair degree of confidence. So if we'd been a bit more cautious and taken a more stepped local approach in July I feel we'd be in a better position now to really a) not have such high numbers and b) know exactly what and when and where we need restrictions on. As it is we're guessing.

For me and I'm somewhat ashamed to admit this but I found lockdown fine - it wasn't fun or amazing but it was tolerable. What I've found since then is my mental health is all over the place (and I've never had any MH issues ever, not once) because of the constant stress of changes in rules, changes in the situation that impact on my work, my staff, my family, my home life, my plans and it has got to the point where I feel constantly like I'm on a cliff edge. I hate myself for even writing this guff. But its just reached a point where I'd prefer certainty and clarity and the only way I can personally have that is if we just lockdown. I am being selfish but frankly the whole thing has become a huge weight for me personally - and I can't be alone in that.
How has it worked up in the north? Some places locked down, others right next to them not? I guess whether it’s north or south there will hopefully be a majority that abide by the rules and a minority that don’t. You have to hope the majority abiding are enough to make a difference. The danger with numerous, full on lock downs is that people get lockdown fatigue and start breaking the rules more. People are more likely to abide if told ‘stay at home for a week’ then ‘stay at home for a Month’

I’m sorry you have found it so tough recently, I suspect that’s quite normal feelings, not that it makes it any easier. As you say, at least with full on lockdown you knew where you were, the frequent changes of rules must make it all very frustrating and stressful. That said, for the extroverts amongst us (of which I’m not, I found lockdown Ok, home schooling apart) the lack of social contact and getting out that full on lockdown brings must be really hard. At the end of the day we are all social animals to some degree and need the human contact. I spent ages gurning at a baby in a buggy in the shop the other day before it clicked it couldn’t see my faces because of the mask. I’ve personally found the cancellation of events that mark the change of season for us as a family hard. The summer village day, bonfire night, Christmas shopping evening Etc. I miss going to Arsenal too, I have had a couple of funerals of friends (non Covid) that I have had to attend virtually. Covid has bought so many crappy negative changes, I do hope there will be some small positive changes too, whether that be people building better relationships with family, the effect on the environment etc.
I would argue that the point is it hasn't worked in the North. Inspite of a summer of restrictions in places like Bolton, Bradford etc nowhere seems to have an appreciably better position to work from. Whilst restrictions in Leicester seem to be the most successful it was a full lockdown that more or less for a period shut down the city and surrounding areas and their cases are once again rising and close to double the national incidence per 100K.

The main issue is that Bolton were in restrictions where pubs and restaurants had to close a few weeks back yet people were travelling outside of Bolton to go to places - so how effective was that? The cases continue to rise and the restrictions in effect are now lighter than they were (when local authority decided) given the governments Tier 3 designation overriding the local decision. Its a bit of a joke round here and across the region generally. The reason I don't think it really works is that people are 'free' to move about - and whilst they are told to stay within a tier 3 area (so anywhere in GM or surrounding Tier 3 areas) you have local variation so the natural movement of people keeps the virus bubbling away it seems.

I've been privy to some PHE data for parts of the region shared with us at work and when you normalise it against restrictions the data shows that whilst the restrictions on a local level can slow the rate - the virus is still in most cases continuing to spread and you simply aren't driving down cases - just slowing the spread to an extent. Which means in essence as sir Keir Starmer tried to point out in Parliament - we're not likely to get out of this in any meaningful way until conditions change - ie Spring....

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Montreal Wanderer » Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:31 am

This has been interesting.
Thank you.
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Gooner Girl » Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:35 am

I know most of you won’t give two hoots but this has been making me cross the last few days.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-54876198

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:45 pm

Gooner Girl wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:35 am
I know most of you won’t give two hoots but this has been making me cross the last few days.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-54876198
Not withstanding the fact that the two players at the top of the page there are perfectly entitled to pose for photos in the manner of their choosing, are they really the sort of photos you'd would want to see used when looking to support the actual points raised in the article?
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:19 pm

I suppose alternatively you could say it's unfair that the male academies are continuing and the players are having their health potentially compromised?

I freely admit to being a dinosaur where womens footy is concerned. It is of zero interest to me in normal times, never mind now, where most of the male game is irrelevant to me too. I'm pleased for those who are into it, that it's growing in popularity but that shouldnt be at the expense of the male game lower down the league's. The BBC webpage giving womens games greater coverage and prominence than anything outside the premier league. Ridiculous imo
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Worthy4England » Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:30 pm

Not just football, cricket and rugby pages too. There should be a preference bit where I can filter shit out, I don't want to read.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Gooner Girl » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:18 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:45 pm
Gooner Girl wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:35 am
I know most of you won’t give two hoots but this has been making me cross the last few days.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-54876198
Not withstanding the fact that the two players at the top of the page there are perfectly entitled to pose for photos in the manner of their choosing, are they really the sort of photos you'd would want to see used when looking to support the actual points raised in the article?
You raise a good point Bruce. No, it’s not really. :? Researched the journalist who’s a young lass who possibly should know better but it’s for newsbeat which I think is aimed at the younger generation so maybe selfies from instagram etc are more normal In that sort of report. I agree though. Doesn’t exactly help the issue to be taken seriously.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Gooner Girl » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:25 am

Amazing though it may seem, not all readers of bbc sport are middle aged, misogynistic men like Worthy and Harry. Plenty are interested but if women’s sport doesn’t get the profile then it won’t attract the funding it needs to improve. It’s a viscous circle.

I have no interest in golf. I just scroll on past on bbc sport?! It’s not a big deal. And you can filter stuff out Worthy, should you be so technologically minded!
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Burnden Paddock » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:32 am

Gooner Girl wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:25 am
Amazing though it may seem, not all readers of bbc sport are middle aged, misogynistic men like Worthy and Harry. Plenty are interested but if women’s sport doesn’t get the profile then it won’t attract the funding it needs to improve. It’s a viscous circle.

I have no interest in golf. I just scroll on past on bbc sport?! It’s not a big deal. And you can filter stuff out Worthy, should you be so technologically minded!
Good to see we are among your most popular searches! 😉

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Gooner Girl » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:37 am

Burnden Paddock wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:32 am
Gooner Girl wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:25 am
Amazing though it may seem, not all readers of bbc sport are middle aged, misogynistic men like Worthy and Harry. Plenty are interested but if women’s sport doesn’t get the profile then it won’t attract the funding it needs to improve. It’s a viscous circle.

I have no interest in golf. I just scroll on past on bbc sport?! It’s not a big deal. And you can filter stuff out Worthy, should you be so technologically minded!
Good to see we are among your most popular searches! 😉
Not popular searches but I edited it when you were in danger of going under to keep an eye on the news. Still somehow following Mark Illes on twitter too! 🤔

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:08 am

Mysoginistic? For wanting a filter mechanism on a newsfeed to filter out something I have no interest in? Right. ROFL.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Gooner Girl » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:39 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:08 am
Mysoginistic? For wanting a filter mechanism on a newsfeed to filter out something I have no interest in? Right. ROFL.
Apologies. Maybe that was harsh. But just for interest, why aren’t you bothered about women’s sport? It can’t be because of the old chestnut about the lower standards as Bolton aren’t exactly flying high at the moment.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:18 am

Gooner Girl wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:39 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:08 am
Mysoginistic? For wanting a filter mechanism on a newsfeed to filter out something I have no interest in? Right. ROFL.
Apologies. Maybe that was harsh. But just for interest, why aren’t you bothered about women’s sport? It can’t be because of the old chestnut about the lower standards as Bolton aren’t exactly flying high at the moment.
Thank you. There's plenty of sport I'm not interested in both mens and womens. I wouldn't want Mens Snooker clogging up the football feed, either!

I watch Bolton, they're my team. Aside from that, I watch England football, rugby union and cricket. Occasionally I'll watch other sport if I'm specifically interested and have time (like the Masters this week or the Ryder Cup). I don't have enough free time to get "invested" in another team and there isn't a womens team I'm sat there thinking that'd be worth the investment of time.

I generally have to be supporting one of the teams playing to get my "hit" out of it.

On the BBC positive bias. WSL, I think averaged just slightly lower than L2 crowds last season. I'm sure Bolton would be delighted to get as much coverage on the Beeb as WSL currently gets (or maybe not!). Just give me a way to avoid it in my feed if I so wish. Would a "don't show WSL" option be wrong?

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Gooner Girl » Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:10 pm

Fair enough Worthy. If I’m honest I’m not hugely interested in women’s football in general. It’s Arsenal Women only. Same with men’s. If I switch on the tv and there’s a match on that isn’t us, women’s or men’s, I might watch half heartedly but it’s not the same as watching any of the Arsenal teams. I couldn’t give a toss about England either unless Arsenal players are on the pitch.

I do however think that women should get the same opportunities as men to play football - and that the academy thing is unfair, and I do think that any coverage women’s football gets is good because the media has been biased against it for years now. Tide is turning though. My sons match of the day magazine now has wayyyy more coverage of women’s football then it did when I read it as a kid in the 90’s and he’s growing up happy to watch women’s football as he is men’s. Plenty of young girls into football too. I think it’s largely a generational thing tbh (Tango excepted!) and that In a few more decades attitudes will have changed a lot as it will be seen as more of a norm. I hope so anyway.

Average attendances vary a fair bit obviously and ticket prices are still pretty cheap for the women’s game but Spurs - Arsenal in the league recently (pre Covid) drew a crowd of over 38,000. Don’t suppose many league 2 sides manage that often.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:00 pm

There aren't any League 2 sides with a ground capacity of 38,000...maybe if they were getting equal investment as Spurs/Arsenal and much more coverage....(see where that leads :-) ). There was also the Manchester derby at over 30,000, so without a few outliers which equate to 17 games worth of average attendance, then the average would be a lot lower than league 2 where some grounds have 3/4k capacity...I think Arsenal ladies averaged 4700 last season? The Chelsea game that got 24,000 the tickets were free. £6.50/£3.50 for Spurs/Arsenal probably doesn't cover the fixed costs and stewards etc.

I don't mind that level of support, I just wanna be able to take it off my newsfeed :-)

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Gooner Girl » Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:45 pm

Been doing your research Worthy?! think even within the premier league the investment in women’s teams is still pretty minuscule compared to what it is in the men’s game. You’re right, average attendances are fairly low still, we have been to a few Arsenal away matches over the past few seasons and 38k is not a normal crowd, however it does show that the interest is potentially there. People weren’t forced along at gun point!

Anyway, Arsenal women vs Chelsea just brightened up a very rainy lockdown afternoon on a boring men’s international weekend for oldest son and I. We are all different. I mean, I think golf is :zzz: I’d like to take it off my newsfeed...

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:29 pm

I think you should be able to take golf (or anything else) off your newsfeed. :-)

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:44 pm

"Match of the day magazine has way more coverage of womens football than it used to"

Cant womens football stand on it's own two feet rather than piggy back on the mens game? I suppose I could start tearing pages out of my WSC issue if I want to filter it? :roll:

The Premier league gets an inordinate amount of coverage, publicity and finance compared to the rest of the mens game. Those few crumbs we have left to pick over, shouldn't be given over to the womens game any more than they should be given over to kids football, disabled football, or any other such hybrid product.

If folk are interested in those sections of sport, great. Just don't dilute a sport that's managed well enough across 3 centuries so far.
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Gooner Girl » Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:30 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:44 pm
"Match of the day magazine has way more coverage of womens football than it used to"

Cant womens football stand on it's own two feet rather than piggy back on the mens game? I suppose I could start tearing pages out of my WSC issue if I want to filter it? :roll:

The Premier league gets an inordinate amount of coverage, publicity and finance compared to the rest of the mens game. Those few crumbs we have left to pick over, shouldn't be given over to the womens game any more than they should be given over to kids football, disabled football, or any other such hybrid product.

If folk are interested in those sections of sport, great. Just don't dilute a sport that's managed well enough across 3 centuries so far.

And why should men’s lower league have more coverage then women’s football? Why is that more important? It’s not diluting the sport, it’s adding to it. Making a much loved game accessible to way more of the population. Those that can’t afford PL tickets, girls that look up to female footballers and see that they can make a living from doing the sport they love. How is that a bad thing? You’re looking at this from a very narrow perspective. Try looking at the bigger picture and not looking at it as an elderly male. There are so many pros to the women’s game getting bigger in this country, If you have to scroll down a little bit further on bbc sport, skip a page in your football magazine or switch the channel occasionally then I think you will live. Would you be happy to explain those, in your own words, ‘dinosaur’ views, to a lass my daughters age without feeling uncomfortable?

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Prufrock » Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:34 pm

How does it stand on its own two feet if there is no coverage though? I think the biggest clash here is that the BBC is probably the best sports website in the country, but it's also an arm of a publicly funded body which has various duties what it covers and how.

There is a history of women being excluded to the game, not just not being covered but being actively banned from playing.

If you look at other sports, tennis or athletics say, women aren't "as good at it" as the men, and particularly something as obvious as athletics, why would you watch a woman run 100m in 11 secs when you could watch a man in 9.5 if there wasn't much more to sport than just the quality?

Yet despite that, some (fewer, but not an insignificant number) of women are global superstars and role-models for girls (and indeed boys everywhere).

If I had a daughter and she was to ask me why being a professional tennis player was an option for her if she was good enough, but being a professional football until very recently wasn't, I'm not sure I'd have an answer that wasn't to do with the coverage each got.

Do I think it's likely there is though interest in women's football to see it compete with the Prem? No. Do I think it's likely there's enough interest to support a professional league with decent crowds? I think probably. But it takes time to grow that interest. Free or not, there's no way you'd have got 38,000 to watch us play Salford.

I think all that despite having no interest at all in it myself. Every two years i turn on the TV to confirm that yes, the standard is still miles off even League Two. And I bristle at a headline which reads Arsenal and Chelsea draw and I wonder what I've missed. But I think that's because I'm already invested in the team's I'm going to follow. I care about us. I care less but still care about England. And I think the top levels of the men's game right are of such high quality that I will watch the European games most weeks. Anything else now leaves me pretty cold. But I do think that if I was a football obsessed 13 year old now, I would've got into supporting the women's team and once you care you care. (That said I would also personally love a button to untick on the website :lol:)

We all know that once you have that bug the quality of the football is only a component factor of why you care.
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