Today I'm angry about.....

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Even if it most people were against the idea, I don't think it would make gay marriage wrong. Polls often show that the majority of people want capital punishment to be brought back, that doesn't mean that it is right, it just means that the majority of people are idiots.

You may have a point, but it puts you in the "I'll take democracy when it suits & they can fck off when it doesn't" camp.

The one that says I'm brighter than you lot, so your opinion doesn't really count.

I mean, bravo. That's my view too, but don't fail to recognise it means democracy isn't really for you.

indeed - but we don't live under a "pure" (direct) democracy - we live under a representative (parliamentary) democracy... in which case we can have both...

Pure Direct Democracy is just dictatorship by the mob.
F*ck democracy.

[Hoboh]

Ok I'll leave you with creeping liberalisation just don't cry when your great society breaks down futher than it already has.
We are already reaping the rewards of the tank topped liberals in the education system, so why not keep heading foot to the floor down the slippery s (oops Clarksons got the beeb in trouble for that) and see how long before more and more people decide rules or Norms, don't apply to them.

[William the White]

Even if it most people were against the idea, I don't think it would make gay marriage wrong. Polls often show that the majority of people want capital punishment to be brought back, that doesn't mean that it is right, it just means that the majority of people are idiots.

You may have a point, but it puts you in the "I'll take democracy when it suits & they can fck off when it doesn't" camp.

The one that says I'm brighter than you lot, so your opinion doesn't really count.

I mean, bravo. That's my view too, but don't fail to recognise it means democracy isn't really for you.

I'm just saying that what's popular isn't the same as what is right. To quote Peep Show 'You can't trust people, they voted for Hitler and they like Coldplay'.

Hitler never got a majority of the popular vote.

Coldplay aren't as bad as Hitler.

I'm not sure what this proves. Though both are true...

[thebish]

Ok I'll leave you with creeping liberalisation just don't cry when your great society breaks down futher than it already has.

just what is it about Gay marriage, hobes, that breaks down society?? In what way do couples expressing love and commitment to one another break down society??

I'm curious!

[BWFC_Insane]

Ok I'll leave you with creeping liberalisation just don't cry when your great society breaks down futher than it already has.
We are already reaping the rewards of the tank topped liberals in the education system, so why not keep heading foot to the floor down the slippery s (oops Clarksons got the beeb in trouble for that) and see how long before more and more people decide rules or Norms, don't apply to them.

What is it with you and soundbites? What are you even talking about? I haven't got a clue. What the hell is "creeping liberalisation"? And why is it a bad thing?

I mean, bish has already asked, but in what way is gay marriage causing a "breakdown in society"? In what way does liberalisation cause that?

I have no idea what tank topped liberals in the education system are or have done to incense you, but it seems like you have just resorted to peddling meaningless soundbites.

If you don't think gay people should be allowed to marry, what is your reasoning for that? If you don't think that them having equal rights to everyone else is correct, then what is your reasoning for that? If you don't think that those running businesses should be held to account of the law, then what is your reasoning for that?

You've accused people of not wanting a balanced and sensible debate, which may be fair. But my instant reaction when someone resorts to the sort of Alf Garnett soundbites you have done is to assume that at the heart of their argument is prejudice and hatred, rather than anything else. So if something else is motivating it then perhaps you could explain what it is?

I struggle to see broadly, why allowing people to discriminate against any group of (law abiding) people is a good thing, but I'm interested in a genuine point of view that doesn't sound like a collection of Daily Mail headlines strung together......

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Hitler never got a majority of the popular vote.

Coldplay aren't as bad as Hitler.

I'm not sure what this proves. Though both are true...

No, but he was democratically elected in the same way that lots of European prime ministers are today, without being at the head of parties with a majority of the popular vote.

[William the White]

Hitler never got a majority of the popular vote.

Coldplay aren't as bad as Hitler.

I'm not sure what this proves. Though both are true...

No, but he was democratically elected in the same way that lots of European prime ministers are today, without being at the head of parties with a majority of the popular vote.

I did know that...

[William the White]

Ok I'll leave you with creeping liberalisation just don't cry when your great society breaks down futher than it already has.
We are already reaping the rewards of the tank topped liberals in the education system, so why not keep heading foot to the floor down the slippery s (oops Clarksons got the beeb in trouble for that) and see how long before more and more people decide rules or Norms, don't apply to them.

If you don't think gay people should be allowed to marry, what is your reasoning for that? If you don't think that them having equal rights to everyone else is correct, then what is your reasoning for that? If you don't think that those running businesses should be held to account of the law, then what is your reasoning for that?

There are some questions worth asking. On the other hand...

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Hitler never got a majority of the popular vote.

Coldplay aren't as bad as Hitler.

I'm not sure what this proves. Though both are true...

No, but he was democratically elected in the same way that lots of European prime ministers are today, without being at the head of parties with a majority of the popular vote.

I did know that...

I didn't doubt it!

[Harry Genshaw]

My laptop breaking had no idea how much I relied on it. Had most stuff backed up but photos of the dog (rip ) and some banging choons could be lost forever

[Gooner Girl]

My laptop breaking had no idea how much I relied on it. Had most stuff backed up but photos of the dog (rip ) and some banging choons could be lost forever

Mr GG is a computer whizz. He'd happily take a look at it remotely if you want. Have you taken it anywhere to see if it really is dead? Pm me if you think it would be any use. He actually enjoys doing that kind of thing.

[Hoboh]

Ok I'll leave you with creeping liberalisation just don't cry when your great society breaks down futher than it already has.
We are already reaping the rewards of the tank topped liberals in the education system, so why not keep heading foot to the floor down the slippery s (oops Clarksons got the beeb in trouble for that) and see how long before more and more people decide rules or Norms, don't apply to them.

What is it with you and soundbites? What are you even talking about? I haven't got a clue. What the hell is "creeping liberalisation"? And why is it a bad thing?

I mean, bish has already asked, but in what way is gay marriage causing a "breakdown in society"? In what way does liberalisation cause that?

I have no idea what tank topped liberals in the education system are or have done to incense you, but it seems like you have just resorted to peddling meaningless soundbites.

If you don't think gay people should be allowed to marry, what is your reasoning for that? If you don't think that them having equal rights to everyone else is correct, then what is your reasoning for that? If you don't think that those running businesses should be held to account of the law, then what is your reasoning for that?

You've accused people of not wanting a balanced and sensible debate, which may be fair. But my instant reaction when someone resorts to the sort of Alf Garnett soundbites you have done is to assume that at the heart of their argument is prejudice and hatred, rather than anything else. So if something else is motivating it then perhaps you could explain what it is?

I struggle to see broadly, why allowing people to discriminate against any group of (law abiding) people is a good thing, but I'm interested in a genuine point of view that doesn't sound like a collection of Daily Mail headlines strung together......

Right!
Angry thread, check.

Just what the fcuk is it with you? I gave you credit for having at least half a brain.
If you really don't understand what CREEPING LIBERALISATION is then you and your ilk are quite clearly part of the problem.

You dole out fcuking 'rights' to all and a sundry, kids, prisoners gays, religious nut jobs, you want social justice for the never worked, never want to work, live off everybody else’s taxes rat breeders, then wonder why the fabric of society is being ripped to shreds and no bullshit it is, suprise suprise.

Prisons full of people who book their annual holiday there, why, fcuking liberal rights that mean its way to cushy.

Ferrule kids rampaging round the streets, schools unable to do next to feck all to maintain discipline, the compitition is bad mantra and the liberal/socialist view of comprehensive or dumbing everyone down to the same level, you name it and theres your tank topped liberals!

Gays allowed to promote themselves a 'norm', (what the fcuk they doing trying to recruit more to the cause?) you wanna snog a stubbly bloke fine just don't pretend its fcuking normal which gay marriage is helping to promote.

As for 'sound bites' its far easier to type short to the point messages sometimes rather than the war and peace drivel you post that sort of loses its way after the third fcuking sentence!
That clear it up for you? You and your political/social stances/ideas are as big a menace to this country and its people as the Nazis ever were.

[Gary the Enfield]

Ok I'll leave you with creeping liberalisation just don't cry when your great society breaks down futher than it already has.
We are already reaping the rewards of the tank topped liberals in the education system, so why not keep heading foot to the floor down the slippery s (oops Clarksons got the beeb in trouble for that) and see how long before more and more people decide rules or Norms, don't apply to them.

What is it with you and soundbites? What are you even talking about? I haven't got a clue. What the hell is "creeping liberalisation"? And why is it a bad thing?

I mean, bish has already asked, but in what way is gay marriage causing a "breakdown in society"? In what way does liberalisation cause that?

I have no idea what tank topped liberals in the education system are or have done to incense you, but it seems like you have just resorted to peddling meaningless soundbites.

If you don't think gay people should be allowed to marry, what is your reasoning for that? If you don't think that them having equal rights to everyone else is correct, then what is your reasoning for that? If you don't think that those running businesses should be held to account of the law, then what is your reasoning for that?

You've accused people of not wanting a balanced and sensible debate, which may be fair. But my instant reaction when someone resorts to the sort of Alf Garnett soundbites you have done is to assume that at the heart of their argument is prejudice and hatred, rather than anything else. So if something else is motivating it then perhaps you could explain what it is?

I struggle to see broadly, why allowing people to discriminate against any group of (law abiding) people is a good thing, but I'm interested in a genuine point of view that doesn't sound like a collection of Daily Mail headlines strung together......

Right!
Angry thread, check.
Just what the fcuk is it with you? I gave you credit for having at least half a brain.
If you really don't understand what CREEPING LIBERALISATION is then you and your ilk are quite clearly part of the problem.
You dole out fcuking 'rights' to all and a sundry, kids, prisoners gays, religious nut jobs, you want social justice for the never worked, never want to work, live off everybody else’s taxes rat breeders, then wonder why the fabric of society is being ripped to shreds and no bullshit it is suprise suprise.
Prisons full of people who book there annual holiday there, why, fcuking liberal rights that mean its way to cushy, ferrule kids rampaging round the streets, schools unable to do next to feck all to maintain discipline, the compitition is bad mantra and the liberal/socialist view of comprehensive or dumbing everyone down to the same level, you name theres your tank topped liberals! gays allowed to promote themselves a 'norm', (what the fcuk they doing trying to recruit more to the cause?) you wanna snog a stubbly bloke fine just don't pretend its fcuking normal which gay marriage is helping to promote.
As for 'sound bites' its far easier to type short to the point messages sometimes rather than the war and peace drivel you post that sort of loses its way after the third fcuking sentence!
That clear it up for you, you and your political/social stances/ideas are as big a menace to this country and its people as the Nazis ever were.

Sits back and....

[superjohnmcginlay]

Don't be holding back or owt.

[thebish]

hoboh...

1. can you explain what is wrong with allowing "Gays" to have rights?

2. can you explain how "Gays" are trying to "recruit more to the cause"?

3. do you really think that BWFCi is as dangerous as the Nazis ever were?

oh - and also my original, inoffensive, ordinary question - precisely how does the idea of people loving one another and committing themselves to one another in marriage "undermine society" in any real or meaningful way?

[Bruce Rioja]

Ferrule.

NOUN

1A ring or cap, typically a metal one, which strengthens the end of a handle, stick, or tube and prevents it from splitting or wearing.

1.1A metal band strengthening or forming a joint.

[Gary the Enfield]

Ferrule.

NOUN

1A ring or cap, typically a metal one, which strengthens the end of a handle, stick, or tube and prevents it from splitting or wearing.

1.1A metal band strengthening or forming a joint.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... 5504,d.ZGU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Hoboh]

hoboh...

1. can you explain what is wrong with allowing "Gays" to have rights?
They alrady share most of the same 'rights' as most of us there are certain things that were not put in place for everbody and there is never a position of 'one cap fits all'.

2. can you explain how "Gays" are trying to "recruit more to the cause"?
Well do hetros go out on 'pink marches' have 'pink pounds' and dress like freddy mercury or the village people to draw attion tho themslves?

3. do you really think that BWFCi is as dangerous as the Nazis ever were?
Yes, left wing socialist thinkers are.

oh - and also my original, inoffensive, ordinary question - precisely how does the idea of people loving one another and committing themselves to one another in marriage "undermine society" in any real or meaningful way?
If it has no meaningful way why the hell do they want it? They don't have to marry to commit or love each other, they just want to pretend they are 'normal'.

[Hoboh]

Ferrule.

NOUN

1A ring or cap, typically a metal one, which strengthens the end of a handle, stick, or tube and prevents it from splitting or wearing.

1.1A metal band strengthening or forming a joint.

All right I was on a rant

[BWFC_Insane]

Ok I'll leave you with creeping liberalisation just don't cry when your great society breaks down futher than it already has.
We are already reaping the rewards of the tank topped liberals in the education system, so why not keep heading foot to the floor down the slippery s (oops Clarksons got the beeb in trouble for that) and see how long before more and more people decide rules or Norms, don't apply to them.

What is it with you and soundbites? What are you even talking about? I haven't got a clue. What the hell is "creeping liberalisation"? And why is it a bad thing?

I mean, bish has already asked, but in what way is gay marriage causing a "breakdown in society"? In what way does liberalisation cause that?

I have no idea what tank topped liberals in the education system are or have done to incense you, but it seems like you have just resorted to peddling meaningless soundbites.

If you don't think gay people should be allowed to marry, what is your reasoning for that? If you don't think that them having equal rights to everyone else is correct, then what is your reasoning for that? If you don't think that those running businesses should be held to account of the law, then what is your reasoning for that?

You've accused people of not wanting a balanced and sensible debate, which may be fair. But my instant reaction when someone resorts to the sort of Alf Garnett soundbites you have done is to assume that at the heart of their argument is prejudice and hatred, rather than anything else. So if something else is motivating it then perhaps you could explain what it is?

I struggle to see broadly, why allowing people to discriminate against any group of (law abiding) people is a good thing, but I'm interested in a genuine point of view that doesn't sound like a collection of Daily Mail headlines strung together......

Right!
Angry thread, check.

Just what the fcuk is it with you? I gave you credit for having at least half a brain.
If you really don't understand what CREEPING LIBERALISATION is then you and your ilk are quite clearly part of the problem.

You dole out fcuking 'rights' to all and a sundry, kids, prisoners gays, religious nut jobs, you want social justice for the never worked, never want to work, live off everybody else’s taxes rat breeders, then wonder why the fabric of society is being ripped to shreds and no bullshit it is, suprise suprise.

Prisons full of people who book their annual holiday there, why, fcuking liberal rights that mean its way to cushy.

Ferrule kids rampaging round the streets, schools unable to do next to feck all to maintain discipline, the compitition is bad mantra and the liberal/socialist view of comprehensive or dumbing everyone down to the same level, you name it and theres your tank topped liberals!

Gays allowed to promote themselves a 'norm', (what the fcuk they doing trying to recruit more to the cause?) you wanna snog a stubbly bloke fine just don't pretend its fcuking normal which gay marriage is helping to promote.

As for 'sound bites' its far easier to type short to the point messages sometimes rather than the war and peace drivel you post that sort of loses its way after the third fcuking sentence!
That clear it up for you? You and your political/social stances/ideas are as big a menace to this country and its people as the Nazis ever were.

Jesus. You asked for some reasoned debate, so I tried to prompt you into kicking some off, but what I got was more angry soundbites that sound more and more like some neo-nazi extremism.

I'm very concerned about your views that Gay people aren't "normal" and shouldn't be considered as such. I mean really concerned. That is some seriously awful stuff you're saying.

I don't think anyone gay or otherwise tries to promote themselves as "normal". But if you concede that it is perfectly natural that some people are attracted to others of the same sex, then surely those people deserve to be treated identically in law to those who are attracted to heterosexual people? That is what I'm driving at. What on earth is the justification for that not being the case?

You seem to be suggesting that you'd like some sort of social engineering experiment to be carried out where gay people are discouraged from being a part of mainstream society, marginalised and kept in the shadows, in order to dissuade other gay people from coming out and being openly gay? That seems a fair summation.

And nobody is "doling out rights". It isn't how it works. People automatically have equal rights, until they do something to lose some or all of them. Surely that is absolutely how things must be? Otherwise we're effectively in a very similar state (seeing as you brought the Nazis up) to Nazi Germany where it can be arbitrarily decided which groups in society have rights and which don't.

I also think you're confusing and confuddling a lot of separate things. Like education. Whilst I broadly agree that schools have not enough power to manage discipline (and I don't mean institutionalised beatings) I very much don't think that is ALL to do with rights and "creeping liberalisation". A part of it is because right wing publications have pushed the message that adults who look after kids can't be trusted and if anything happens, someone has to be blamed and be accountable. If for example, teachers break up a fight and accideentally one of the kids gets hurt, which papers will be on the witch hunt? I can guarantee which ones they'd be and they'd not be the "liberal wet leftie" ones. People fear it. They fear the witchhunt. They also fear parents going into schools and kicking off and complaining. Something again that really comes down to a societal lack of respect for educators. And this lack of respect has not been driven by the Guardian or the Labour party but rather by the Mail, Sun and Torygraph bashing teachers, telling us that they aren't worth much, and moaning when they threaten to strike. Educators should be respected and given the priviliges to make decisions such a position entails. But they are not given that and therefore end up fearing consequences.