Today I'm angry about.....

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Hoboh
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Hoboh » Sun Dec 12, 2021 1:30 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sun Dec 12, 2021 12:36 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:55 pm

I've never been warm on PR but I am now. For the reason we can see now. It protects our democracy from Trump/Boris situations and the alarming drift to extremes either way has shown that we cannot maintain FPTP seriously as an electoral system purely because it hands large majorities on less than 50% of the vote to parties who are not fit to have that power.
100% agreement; though I'm unsure as to why you've never been warm to PR previously.
PR would take decades to work effectively by replacing our current set up, decades quite frankly we have not got to spare.
The problem is as mentioned earlier, minority extreme parties getting their way or constant elections/change of leaders.
You only need to look at the current parliamentary set up with the inclusion of the ghastly SNP to see what road you might be heading down, just be careful what you wish for.

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Worthy4England
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Dec 12, 2021 4:39 pm

What an absolute farce, that Grand Prix was...Masi had a mare....

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Prufrock » Sun Dec 12, 2021 4:54 pm

Yep ridiculous. Not the job of a "referee" of any kind to manufacture some sort of drama. They've been bobbins all year taking far too long to clamp down on Verstappen being overly aggressive though this one wasn't his fault.

I enjoy F1, but it's always the sign of a sport unsure of itself when they have to try to manufacture excitement. Goes all the way back to DRS for me, but there we go.

And now it's going to go on for days. They won't change the result, but the failure to do their jobs through the season, capped by that farce, has put themselves in this position .
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:24 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Sun Dec 12, 2021 4:54 pm
Yep ridiculous. Not the job of a "referee" of any kind to manufacture some sort of drama. They've been bobbins all year taking far too long to clamp down on Verstappen being overly aggressive though this one wasn't his fault.

I enjoy F1, but it's always the sign of a sport unsure of itself when they have to try to manufacture excitement. Goes all the way back to DRS for me, but there we go.

And now it's going to go on for days. They won't change the result, but the failure to do their jobs through the season, capped by that farce, has put themselves in this position .
You sure they won't change the result? Apparently Horner's just come out of the Stewards room looking mighty unhappy....

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:41 pm

Hmmm adjourned....Mercedes just happened to have their barrister with them....🤣🤣

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Prufrock » Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:48 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:24 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Sun Dec 12, 2021 4:54 pm
Yep ridiculous. Not the job of a "referee" of any kind to manufacture some sort of drama. They've been bobbins all year taking far too long to clamp down on Verstappen being overly aggressive though this one wasn't his fault.

I enjoy F1, but it's always the sign of a sport unsure of itself when they have to try to manufacture excitement. Goes all the way back to DRS for me, but there we go.

And now it's going to go on for days. They won't change the result, but the failure to do their jobs through the season, capped by that farce, has put themselves in this position .
You sure they won't change the result? Apparently Horner's just come out of the Stewards room looking mighty unhappy....
Ha, nothing would surprise me. My reckon is the FIA will uphold it in some "race director's decision is final" type grounds (overturning it would be even more of a farce) and then we might end up at CAS.

Either way they've fecked it all season by making things up on the cuff to attempt to create drama.
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:54 pm

Agree. They could also try to wheedle out by getting one of the participants on a "technical" offence which either maintains or changes the result, so that the "stupid fuking decision" is rendered "not important"

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Dec 12, 2021 7:18 pm

No, they've opted to ratify their stupidity...think you nay be right and this goes to CAS...

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Hoboh » Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:01 pm

Funny they skip Hamilton's short cut to the front.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:15 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:01 pm
Funny they skip Hamilton's short cut to the front.
They didn't (skip it). They assessed it, came to the conclusion that Verstappen had forced the position meaning Hamilton had the choice of crash or move off the track. I wouldn't expect you to be supporting a Brit, given your strong European credentials...

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:21 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sun Dec 12, 2021 12:36 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:55 pm

I've never been warm on PR but I am now. For the reason we can see now. It protects our democracy from Trump/Boris situations and the alarming drift to extremes either way has shown that we cannot maintain FPTP seriously as an electoral system purely because it hands large majorities on less than 50% of the vote to parties who are not fit to have that power.
100% agreement; though I'm unsure as to why you've never been warm to PR previously.
Perhaps just not convinced it was needed or that crucial. Naive of me. I never expected it to be this bad. I guess watching Trump from afar was the warning and you know....but yeah I think it was my own naivety and stupidity.

Not saying I was ever opposed, it just wasn't something I bothered about much.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:23 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Sun Dec 12, 2021 1:30 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sun Dec 12, 2021 12:36 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:55 pm

I've never been warm on PR but I am now. For the reason we can see now. It protects our democracy from Trump/Boris situations and the alarming drift to extremes either way has shown that we cannot maintain FPTP seriously as an electoral system purely because it hands large majorities on less than 50% of the vote to parties who are not fit to have that power.
100% agreement; though I'm unsure as to why you've never been warm to PR previously.
PR would take decades to work effectively by replacing our current set up, decades quite frankly we have not got to spare.
The problem is as mentioned earlier, minority extreme parties getting their way or constant elections/change of leaders.
You only need to look at the current parliamentary set up with the inclusion of the ghastly SNP to see what road you might be heading down, just be careful what you wish for.
The 'ghastly SNP' would be worse as a minority voice than a unassailable majority for corruption, lies, deceit and authoritarianism we have now how exactly?

Beyond the petty nationalism on both sides I don't see how that would be even remotely close to as bad. Not even a hundredth as bad.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Hoboh » Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:50 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:23 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Sun Dec 12, 2021 1:30 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sun Dec 12, 2021 12:36 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:55 pm

I've never been warm on PR but I am now. For the reason we can see now. It protects our democracy from Trump/Boris situations and the alarming drift to extremes either way has shown that we cannot maintain FPTP seriously as an electoral system purely because it hands large majorities on less than 50% of the vote to parties who are not fit to have that power.
100% agreement; though I'm unsure as to why you've never been warm to PR previously.
PR would take decades to work effectively by replacing our current set up, decades quite frankly we have not got to spare.
The problem is as mentioned earlier, minority extreme parties getting their way or constant elections/change of leaders.
You only need to look at the current parliamentary set up with the inclusion of the ghastly SNP to see what road you might be heading down, just be careful what you wish for.
The 'ghastly SNP' would be worse as a minority voice than a unassailable majority for corruption, lies, deceit and authoritarianism we have now how exactly?

Beyond the petty nationalism on both sides I don't see how that would be even remotely close to as bad. Not even a hundredth as bad.
Cleary you have no idea of their politics then nor the bag of wind who is their Westminster leader.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:20 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:50 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:23 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Sun Dec 12, 2021 1:30 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sun Dec 12, 2021 12:36 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:55 pm

I've never been warm on PR but I am now. For the reason we can see now. It protects our democracy from Trump/Boris situations and the alarming drift to extremes either way has shown that we cannot maintain FPTP seriously as an electoral system purely because it hands large majorities on less than 50% of the vote to parties who are not fit to have that power.
100% agreement; though I'm unsure as to why you've never been warm to PR previously.
PR would take decades to work effectively by replacing our current set up, decades quite frankly we have not got to spare.
The problem is as mentioned earlier, minority extreme parties getting their way or constant elections/change of leaders.
You only need to look at the current parliamentary set up with the inclusion of the ghastly SNP to see what road you might be heading down, just be careful what you wish for.
The 'ghastly SNP' would be worse as a minority voice than a unassailable majority for corruption, lies, deceit and authoritarianism we have now how exactly?

Beyond the petty nationalism on both sides I don't see how that would be even remotely close to as bad. Not even a hundredth as bad.
Cleary you have no idea of their politics then nor the bag of wind who is their Westminster leader.
What policies should I be outraged about? In comparison again to what we have now. And Blackford might be an irritant but he’s speaking the truth most of the time. I’d be shouting at the government if I was in there.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:31 pm

Blackford is my MP. He's not popular round these parts, but there isn't anyone else to vote for!

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Prufrock » Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:32 pm

I think the constituency link is a really important plus under our current system. I do think there are a lot of very good constituency MPs out there and in our centralised system there is no real local equivalent with proper power.

I also think the decisiveness of FPTP is good too. It's clearly less "fair" but we don't have the farce of eg Belgium having no government for 2 years, or small parties with the whip hand in coalition negotiations.

I still prefer PR or some sort of AV because I think it's even worse than the vast majority of people's votes don't count, but I don't think it's clear cut, or would fix many of the big problems.
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Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:30 pm

Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:31 pm
Blackford is my MP. He's not popular round these parts, but there isn't anyone else to vote for!
Here's Penny Mordaunt (of who I'm a particular fan) handing the 'humble crofter' his arse back. :)

May the bridges I burn light your way

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:51 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:30 pm
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:31 pm
Blackford is my MP. He's not popular round these parts, but there isn't anyone else to vote for!
Here's Penny Mordaunt (of who I'm a particular fan) handing the 'humble crofter' his arse back. :)

I got as far as ‘we did not ignore firms who offered PPE….’ then stopped. Since when has lying through your teeth been handing someone’s arse back?

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:53 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:32 pm
I think the constituency link is a really important plus under our current system. I do think there are a lot of very good constituency MPs out there and in our centralised system there is no real local equivalent with proper power.

I also think the decisiveness of FPTP is good too. It's clearly less "fair" but we don't have the farce of eg Belgium having no government for 2 years, or small parties with the whip hand in coalition negotiations.

I still prefer PR or some sort of AV because I think it's even worse than the vast majority of people's votes don't count, but I don't think it's clear cut, or would fix many of the big problems.
You can still have local representation just organised differently and with devolution via mayors etc it seems less relevant to me. Good MPs can still be that under PR. There are ways to organise that.

The decisiveness of FPTP is why we are in this mess. ‘Chaos with Ed or stability with me’ yeah….

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:44 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:51 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:30 pm
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:31 pm
Blackford is my MP. He's not popular round these parts, but there isn't anyone else to vote for!
Here's Penny Mordaunt (of who I'm a particular fan) handing the 'humble crofter' his arse back. :)

I got as far as ‘we did not ignore firms who offered PPE….’ then stopped. Since when has lying through your teeth been handing someone’s arse back?
Watch it properly and find out.
May the bridges I burn light your way

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