Today I'm angry about.....

[Prufrock]

Thats mostly bollocks and you know it!
Do you seriously think that the majority of this great society was behind gay marriage?
Were there millions or hundreds of thousands out on the streets?
Or was it down to a well organised group shouting loudly and proclaiming 'if you don't agree with us your bigots'?
That I think you will find is behind most of societys great ideals.

The polls say they were, Hobes.

Read a Yougov survey which was about 60% in favour and 25% against I think. I'd be surprised if it was actually quite that high, but yeah, I think a referendum would come out in favour of gay marriage.

The numbers in young people were ridiculously in favour too, so it's only going one way.

[Hoboh]

We might well be getting a referendum on the EU, even though the single issue party who want us to leave have never won a single seat in Parliament.

My problem with the referendum is that I genuinely don't think there's a proper demand for it. Polls always show no-one actually gives a shit. Sure people like a big whinge about it, but it's therapy, they don't care.

Back to the clash of rights issue. It's often said that by stopping, say, a B&B owner imposing their views on others, it becomes one set of people imposing their liberal views on another. In the case of the B&B owners, who was imposing their views on the owners? I don't think the court can be said to be 'imposing a view'. I don't think the couple can either. They weren't trying to 'impose' their homosexuality, they just wanted to rent a room. The law itself? It was imposing a view that service providers cannot discriminate, but is that not a good thing? Beefheart went big with the 'what would you say if someone turned someone away because they were black', but I think it's a comparison that bears the weight of scrutiny. I don't want to live in that society.

You see I don't think thats right, being black is not a lifestyle choice so is quite correctly protected by law.

[Bruce Rioja]

Do you seriously think that the majority of this great society was behind gay marriage?
Were there millions or hundreds of thousands out on the streets?

I remember seeing loads of gay blokes take to the streets of Manchester to protest that the age of consent for homosexuals should be lowered to 16. Although, I didn't seem to see any 16 year old boys on this march.

[Hoboh]

Thats mostly bollocks and you know it!
Do you seriously think that the majority of this great society was behind gay marriage?
Were there millions or hundreds of thousands out on the streets?
Or was it down to a well organised group shouting loudly and proclaiming 'if you don't agree with us your bigots'?
That I think you will find is behind most of societys great ideals.

The polls say they were, Hobes.Read a Yougov survey which was about 60% in favour and 25% against I think. I'd be surprised if it was actually quite that high, but yeah, I think a referendum would come out in favour of gay marriage.

The numbers in young people were ridiculously in favour too, so it's only going one way.

Any pointers?

No bloody wonder we are suspicious of the young

[Prufrock]

We might well be getting a referendum on the EU, even though the single issue party who want us to leave have never won a single seat in Parliament.

My problem with the referendum is that I genuinely don't think there's a proper demand for it. Polls always show no-one actually gives a shit. Sure people like a big whinge about it, but it's therapy, they don't care.

Back to the clash of rights issue. It's often said that by stopping, say, a B&B owner imposing their views on others, it becomes one set of people imposing their liberal views on another. In the case of the B&B owners, who was imposing their views on the owners? I don't think the court can be said to be 'imposing a view'. I don't think the couple can either. They weren't trying to 'impose' their homosexuality, they just wanted to rent a room. The law itself? It was imposing a view that service providers cannot discriminate, but is that not a good thing? Beefheart went big with the 'what would you say if someone turned someone away because they were black', but I think it's a comparison that bears the weight of scrutiny. I don't want to live in that society.

You see I don't think thats right, being black is not a lifestyle choice so is quite correctly protected by law.

And there's the nub. This insidious belief that being gay is a 'lifestyle choice'.

[thebish]

Thats mostly bollocks and you know it!
Do you seriously think that the majority of this great society was behind gay marriage?
Were there millions or hundreds of thousands out on the streets?
Or was it down to a well organised group shouting loudly and proclaiming 'if you don't agree with us your bigots'?
That I think you will find is behind most of societys great ideals.

The polls say they were, Hobes.Read a Yougov survey which was about 60% in favour and 25% against I think. I'd be surprised if it was actually quite that high, but yeah, I think a referendum would come out in favour of gay marriage.

The numbers in young people were ridiculously in favour too, so it's only going one way.

Any pointers?

No bloody wonder we are suspicious of the young

i linked it on the previous page.

[Prufrock]

Thats mostly bollocks and you know it!
Do you seriously think that the majority of this great society was behind gay marriage?
Were there millions or hundreds of thousands out on the streets?
Or was it down to a well organised group shouting loudly and proclaiming 'if you don't agree with us your bigots'?
That I think you will find is behind most of societys great ideals.

The polls say they were, Hobes.Read a Yougov survey which was about 60% in favour and 25% against I think. I'd be surprised if it was actually quite that high, but yeah, I think a referendum would come out in favour of gay marriage.

The numbers in young people were ridiculously in favour too, so it's only going one way.

Any pointers?

No bloody wonder we are suspicious of the young

Ha.

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2012/03/19/sam ... e-britain/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Same poll also shows 47% think CoE right to defend marriage as an institution for heterosexual couples, with 37% against, so like I said, I think it would be close-ish. But it's only going one way. 75% 18-25 year olds say same sex marriage just as valid.

I genuinely think in 40 years time it will be looked back on like this:

[Beefheart]

Well, you can prove anything with facts.

[Hoboh]

(Reuters) - Hundreds of people protested in London on Saturday against a Russian anti-gay propaganda law that has attracted international condemnation as the world athletics championships kick off in Moscow.

Gaystarnews
Several hundreds of pro and anti marriage equality protestors rallied to London's Trafalgar Square, this afternoon.
Organizers claimed as many as 2,000 people participated in their protest against gay marriage.
Although fewer in numbers, the pro-equality protestors voiced their opposition with rainbow flags, shouting 'shame on you!' and ‘no bigots here!’.

It’s not just Britain. Elsewhere in the world, libertarian politicians are trampling over popular opinion to legislate ‘gay marriage’.
last Sunday week, half-a-million people marched through Paris in support of real marriage. demanding that President Francois Hollande withdraw the enabling bill and hold a national debate before any change in the definition of marriage.

[Hoboh]

We might well be getting a referendum on the EU, even though the single issue party who want us to leave have never won a single seat in Parliament.

My problem with the referendum is that I genuinely don't think there's a proper demand for it. Polls always show no-one actually gives a shit. Sure people like a big whinge about it, but it's therapy, they don't care.

Back to the clash of rights issue. It's often said that by stopping, say, a B&B owner imposing their views on others, it becomes one set of people imposing their liberal views on another. In the case of the B&B owners, who was imposing their views on the owners? I don't think the court can be said to be 'imposing a view'. I don't think the couple can either. They weren't trying to 'impose' their homosexuality, they just wanted to rent a room. The law itself? It was imposing a view that service providers cannot discriminate, but is that not a good thing? Beefheart went big with the 'what would you say if someone turned someone away because they were black', but I think it's a comparison that bears the weight of scrutiny. I don't want to live in that society.

You see I don't think thats right, being black is not a lifestyle choice so is quite correctly protected by law.

And there's the nub. This insidious belief that being gay is a 'lifestyle choice'.

And you just fell down a very deep hole there if thats the case.
So you are saying gays are not wired up right and because of that we should grant them equal rights.
What about the members of PIE then, clearly they cannot help their inclinations! (Just to add sickos should be shot)
How do we decide who we discriminate against?
Why do we move the 'norm'? to be trendy, to suit the young liberal minded, to pander to minoritys in which case why stop at gays?
There's 'the nub'.

[Hoboh]

Thats mostly bollocks and you know it!
Do you seriously think that the majority of this great society was behind gay marriage?
Were there millions or hundreds of thousands out on the streets?
Or was it down to a well organised group shouting loudly and proclaiming 'if you don't agree with us your bigots'?
That I think you will find is behind most of societys great ideals.

The polls say they were, Hobes.Read a Yougov survey which was about 60% in favour and 25% against I think. I'd be surprised if it was actually quite that high, but yeah, I think a referendum would come out in favour of gay marriage.

The numbers in young people were ridiculously in favour too, so it's only going one way.

Any pointers?

No bloody wonder we are suspicious of the young

i linked it on the previous page.

Who are you?

[Prufrock]

We might well be getting a referendum on the EU, even though the single issue party who want us to leave have never won a single seat in Parliament.

My problem with the referendum is that I genuinely don't think there's a proper demand for it. Polls always show no-one actually gives a shit. Sure people like a big whinge about it, but it's therapy, they don't care.

Back to the clash of rights issue. It's often said that by stopping, say, a B&B owner imposing their views on others, it becomes one set of people imposing their liberal views on another. In the case of the B&B owners, who was imposing their views on the owners? I don't think the court can be said to be 'imposing a view'. I don't think the couple can either. They weren't trying to 'impose' their homosexuality, they just wanted to rent a room. The law itself? It was imposing a view that service providers cannot discriminate, but is that not a good thing? Beefheart went big with the 'what would you say if someone turned someone away because they were black', but I think it's a comparison that bears the weight of scrutiny. I don't want to live in that society.

You see I don't think thats right, being black is not a lifestyle choice so is quite correctly protected by law.

And there's the nub. This insidious belief that being gay is a 'lifestyle choice'.

And you just fell down a very deep hole there if thats the case.
So you are saying gays are not wired up right and because of that we should grant them equal rights.
What about the members of PIE then, clearly they cannot help their inclinations! (Just to add sickos should be shot)
How do we decide who we discriminate against?
Why do we move the 'norm'? to be trendy, to suit the young liberal minded, to pander to minoritys in which case why stop at gays?
There's 'the nub'.

If what's the case?
I'm not saying gays 'aren't wired up right', I'm saying they're wired up gay. There are reams of evidence to show homosexual activity exists throughout the animal kingdom. It's normal. There are rams who only have sex with other rams. Sheep don't make 'lifestyle choices'. This belief that they 'choose' to be gay is insidious and plain wrong. There was a campaign a while back where people are asked when they chose to be straight. They didn't.

I don't know whether paedophiles are wired up to be paedophiles, but it certainly seems a possibility. Let's accept for the sake of argument paedophilia is just how some people are: Homosexuality used to be illegal, and I've no doubt that caused some (though not all) homosexuals to abstain from having sex. That's what he hope happens with paedophilia. The reason he hope that happens is we want to stop adults having sex with children. Why do we want to stop consenting adults having sex with consenting adults?

It seems possible, if not probable, that some people are more pre-disposed to violent crime, or to be paedophiles, or maybe even to be dishonest. That doesn't mean we let them off, because their crimes cause harm. We expect them to control any urges, inherited or otherwise, to prevent harm. That just doesn't apply in the case of homosexuality.

[thebish]

(Reuters) - Hundreds of people protested in London on Saturday against a Russian anti-gay propaganda law that has attracted international condemnation as the world athletics championships kick off in Moscow.

Gaystarnews
Several hundreds of pro and anti marriage equality protestors rallied to London's Trafalgar Square, this afternoon.
Organizers claimed as many as 2,000 people participated in their protest against gay marriage.
Although fewer in numbers, the pro-equality protestors voiced their opposition with rainbow flags, shouting 'shame on you!' and ‘no bigots here!’.

It’s not just Britain. Elsewhere in the world, libertarian politicians are trampling over popular opinion to legislate ‘gay marriage’.
last Sunday week, half-a-million people marched through Paris in support of real marriage. demanding that President Francois Hollande withdraw the enabling bill and hold a national debate before any change in the definition of marriage.

i'd have thought that given the proof of UK attitudes towards gay marriage and your professed love of democracy - you would have put up your hand and said - "fair enough - the government has done its job and carried through the wishes of the people"... but instead you simply spew out some unscientific non-statistics about some people demonstrating...

anybody would think that your talk of democracy and the will of the people was just a smokescreen....

[BWFC_Insane]

Thats mostly bollocks and you know it!
Do you seriously think that the majority of this great society was behind gay marriage?
Were there millions or hundreds of thousands out on the streets?
Or was it down to a well organised group shouting loudly and proclaiming 'if you don't agree with us your bigots'?
That I think you will find is behind most of societys great ideals.

It has been demonstrated factually that the majority of people are in fact in favour of gay marriage and equality to the right of marriage.

Are you going to accept that is the will of society? Because it has been shown to be the case.

Perhaps you should start questioning the minority you obviously are a part of.....

[Worthy4England]

Thats mostly bollocks and you know it!
Do you seriously think that the majority of this great society was behind gay marriage?
Were there millions or hundreds of thousands out on the streets?
Or was it down to a well organised group shouting loudly and proclaiming 'if you don't agree with us your bigots'?
That I think you will find is behind most of societys great ideals.

It has been demonstrated factually that the majority of people are in fact in favour of gay marriage and equality to the right of marriage.

Are you going to accept that is the will of society? Because it has been shown to be the case.

Perhaps you should start questioning the minority you obviously are a part of.....

I believe there's enough polls to suggest that a majority of people are in favour. I wouldn't agree it had been demonstrated factually. The majority of respondents in those polls might have expressed an opinion to that effect.

The only way it could be proven factually would be to put it to a referendum and enforce N Korean style, everyone to vote.

If I've read it right, that YouGov poll that the bish refers to (welcome back your bishopliness) - says 58% would be more likely to vote for a party that supported same sex marriage with 42% less likely and the options for resolving the issue - sort it out through a referendum came top of the list (higher than leave it to parliament and not sure)....55% said they'd vote for it, which whilst it represents a majority, is hardly unequivocal.

[Beefheart]

Even if it most people were against the idea, I don't think it would make gay marriage wrong. Polls often show that the majority of people want capital punishment to be brought back, that doesn't mean that it is right, it just means that the majority of people are idiots.

[thebish]

Even if it most people were against the idea, I don't think it would make gay marriage wrong. Polls often show that the majority of people want capital punishment to be brought back, that doesn't mean that it is right, it just means that the majority of people are idiots.

quite - but hoboh often appeals to the will of the people and the government's supposed duty to carry it out. So I pointed out that the best evidence we have suggests that a lot more people want gay marriage than don't want it... he should be happy - democracy in action! power to the people!

[bobo the clown]

Even if it most people were against the idea, I don't think it would make gay marriage wrong. Polls often show that the majority of people want capital punishment to be brought back, that doesn't mean that it is right, it just means that the majority of people are idiots.

You may have a point, but it puts you in the "I'll take democracy when it suits & they can fck off when it doesn't" camp.

The one that says I'm brighter than you lot, so your opinion doesn't really count.

I mean, bravo. That's my view too, but don't fail to recognise it means democracy isn't really for you.

[thebish]

Even if it most people were against the idea, I don't think it would make gay marriage wrong. Polls often show that the majority of people want capital punishment to be brought back, that doesn't mean that it is right, it just means that the majority of people are idiots.

You may have a point, but it puts you in the "I'll take democracy when it suits & they can fck off when it doesn't" camp.

The one that says I'm brighter than you lot, so your opinion doesn't really count.

I mean, bravo. That's my view too, but don't fail to recognise it means democracy isn't really for you.

indeed - but we don't live under a "pure" (direct) democracy - we live under a representative (parliamentary) democracy... in which case we can have both...

[Beefheart]

Even if it most people were against the idea, I don't think it would make gay marriage wrong. Polls often show that the majority of people want capital punishment to be brought back, that doesn't mean that it is right, it just means that the majority of people are idiots.

You may have a point, but it puts you in the "I'll take democracy when it suits & they can fck off when it doesn't" camp.

The one that says I'm brighter than you lot, so your opinion doesn't really count.

I mean, bravo. That's my view too, but don't fail to recognise it means democracy isn't really for you.

I'm just saying that what's popular isn't the same as what is right. To quote Peep Show 'You can't trust people, they voted for Hitler and they like Coldplay'.