This is just not right!

Hoboh · Post by **Hoboh** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:31 am

Honestly! if this bloke felt this strongly about it surely he should have left the feckin' army? I suspect the unfortunate deaths of a few brave lads recently has put the willies up him.

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/article.aspx? ... =148879923

BWFC_Insane · Post by **BWFC_Insane** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:21 am

hoboh2o wrote:Honestly! if this bloke felt this strongly about it surely he should have left the feckin' army? I suspect the unfortunate deaths of a few brave lads recently has put the willies up him.

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/article.aspx? ... =148879923

Hmmm. He has a view and is making his point. From that article it is a bit unclear what his "point" is though....

Its a tough one. You join the army so you know what you are signing up for. But if things happen that you don't like, should you just grin and bear it, or should you take a stand?

CAPSLOCK · Post by **CAPSLOCK** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:44 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
hoboh2o wrote:Honestly! if this bloke felt this strongly about it surely he should have left the feckin' army? I suspect the unfortunate deaths of a few brave lads recently has put the willies up him.

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/article.aspx? ... =148879923
Hmmm. He has a view and is making his point. From that article it is a bit unclear what his "point" is though....

Its a tough one. You join the army so you know what you are signing up for. But if things happen that you don't like, should you just grin and bear it, or should you take a stand?

Of course you should

The day soldiers start deciding which wars they'll bother with, lunatics and asylums spring to mind

By all means, don't join up - good God I couldn't do the job - or get out as soon as you can, but until that day, get on with it

BWFC_Insane · Post by **BWFC_Insane** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:48 am

CAPSLOCK wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
hoboh2o wrote:Honestly! if this bloke felt this strongly about it surely he should have left the feckin' army? I suspect the unfortunate deaths of a few brave lads recently has put the willies up him.

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/article.aspx? ... =148879923
Hmmm. He has a view and is making his point. From that article it is a bit unclear what his "point" is though....

Its a tough one. You join the army so you know what you are signing up for. But if things happen that you don't like, should you just grin and bear it, or should you take a stand?
Of course you should

The day soldiers start deciding which wars they'll bother with, lunatics and asylums spring to mind

By all means, don't join up - good God I couldn't do the job - or get out as soon as you can, but until that day, get on with it

In modern times though does that stack up? I'm not saying it doesn't. Just wondering like. Nowadays people complain about their jobs and take industrial action, go to the press etc etc. Not sure, that end of the day people in the army will be any different!

TANGODANCER · Post by **TANGODANCER** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:58 am

"You may talk of gin and beer,
When you're quartered safe out here"

R.Kipling.

Worthy4England · Post by **Worthy4England** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:03 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
CAPSLOCK wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
hoboh2o wrote:Honestly! if this bloke felt this strongly about it surely he should have left the feckin' army? I suspect the unfortunate deaths of a few brave lads recently has put the willies up him.

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/article.aspx? ... =148879923
Hmmm. He has a view and is making his point. From that article it is a bit unclear what his "point" is though....

Its a tough one. You join the army so you know what you are signing up for. But if things happen that you don't like, should you just grin and bear it, or should you take a stand?
Of course you should

The day soldiers start deciding which wars they'll bother with, lunatics and asylums spring to mind

By all means, don't join up - good God I couldn't do the job - or get out as soon as you can, but until that day, get on with it
In modern times though does that stack up? I'm not saying it doesn't. Just wondering like. Nowadays people complain about their jobs and take industrial action, go to the press etc etc. Not sure, that end of the day people in the army will be any different!

Yes, it does - did you see the rules change anywhere? You can't have "collective bargaining" in the armed forces.

"Right lads, over the top"

"Feck-off we're having out tea-break - it's not due to finish until 1030"

BWFC_Insane · Post by **BWFC_Insane** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:05 am

Worthy4England wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
CAPSLOCK wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
hoboh2o wrote:Honestly! if this bloke felt this strongly about it surely he should have left the feckin' army? I suspect the unfortunate deaths of a few brave lads recently has put the willies up him.

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/article.aspx? ... =148879923
Hmmm. He has a view and is making his point. From that article it is a bit unclear what his "point" is though....

Its a tough one. You join the army so you know what you are signing up for. But if things happen that you don't like, should you just grin and bear it, or should you take a stand?
Of course you should

The day soldiers start deciding which wars they'll bother with, lunatics and asylums spring to mind

By all means, don't join up - good God I couldn't do the job - or get out as soon as you can, but until that day, get on with it
In modern times though does that stack up? I'm not saying it doesn't. Just wondering like. Nowadays people complain about their jobs and take industrial action, go to the press etc etc. Not sure, that end of the day people in the army will be any different!
Yes, it does - did you see the rules change anywhere? You can't have "collective bargaining" in the armed forces.

"Right lads, over the top"

"Feck-off we're having out tea-break - it's not due to finish until 1030"

But you know that in 20 years thats exactly where we'll be like it or not!

Bruno · Post by **Bruno** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:10 am

How do you know that?

jaffka · Post by **jaffka** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:18 am

Bruno wrote:How do you know that?

I wonder if he can tell us next weeks lottery numbers?

H. Pedersen · Post by **H. Pedersen** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:20 am

CAPSLOCK wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
hoboh2o wrote:Honestly! if this bloke felt this strongly about it surely he should have left the feckin' army? I suspect the unfortunate deaths of a few brave lads recently has put the willies up him.

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/article.aspx? ... =148879923
Hmmm. He has a view and is making his point. From that article it is a bit unclear what his "point" is though....

Its a tough one. You join the army so you know what you are signing up for. But if things happen that you don't like, should you just grin and bear it, or should you take a stand?
Of course you should

The day soldiers start deciding which wars they'll bother with, lunatics and asylums spring to mind

By all means, don't join up - good God I couldn't do the job - or get out as soon as you can, but until that day, get on with it

Isn't that the "just following orders" excuse that was so ridiculed after World War II?

CAPSLOCK · Post by **CAPSLOCK** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:24 am

War - its a nasty place to be

Horrible things happen

Get used to it

Worthy4England · Post by **Worthy4England** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:14 pm

H. Pedersen wrote:
CAPSLOCK wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
hoboh2o wrote:Honestly! if this bloke felt this strongly about it surely he should have left the feckin' army? I suspect the unfortunate deaths of a few brave lads recently has put the willies up him.

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/article.aspx? ... =148879923
Hmmm. He has a view and is making his point. From that article it is a bit unclear what his "point" is though....

Its a tough one. You join the army so you know what you are signing up for. But if things happen that you don't like, should you just grin and bear it, or should you take a stand?
Of course you should

The day soldiers start deciding which wars they'll bother with, lunatics and asylums spring to mind

By all means, don't join up - good God I couldn't do the job - or get out as soon as you can, but until that day, get on with it
Isn't that the "just following orders" excuse that was so ridiculed after World War II?

Are you suggesting we should attempt to reach concensus positions in the middle of a battle?

There were some subtle differences in WWII - the main one being conscription - so there were plenty of people who weren't there voluntarily. I could have some sympathy with these people.

I would expect those people who choose to serve in the forces to follow orders as given.

BWFC_Insane · Post by **BWFC_Insane** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:16 pm

I think WW1 is the classic example of the potential disaster of blindly "following orders".

Verbal · Post by **Verbal** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:19 pm

What was that experiment in the sixties, by Stanley Milgrim or such a person?

TANGODANCER · Post by **TANGODANCER** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:33 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:I think WW1 is the classic example of the potential disaster of blindly "following orders".

World Wars are a vastly different proposition from peace-keeping ones. Neither have any redeeming features but in both
World wars your country is under attack, not just some one else's. Conscription is also a different proposition to those who join the armed forces as chosen careers. There's no easy answer to any of it, but, in the former, the choice is that of the individual.

BWFC_Insane · Post by **BWFC_Insane** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:09 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:I think WW1 is the classic example of the potential disaster of blindly "following orders".
World Wars are a vastly different proposition from peace-keeping ones. Neither have any redeeming features but in both
World wars your country is under attack, not just some one else's. Conscription is also a different proposition to those who join the armed forces as chosen careers. There's no easy answer to any of it, but, in the former, the choice is that of the individual.

That wasn't the point though was it?

Hundreds of thousands of troops in WW1 were sent to their deaths by incompetent generals who had no experience of modern warfare and therefore thought walking slowly in a line was the best way to combat a machine gun. Troops that refused to do that were shot.

Bruno · Post by **Bruno** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:09 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:I think WW1 is the classic example of the potential disaster of blindly "following orders".
World Wars are a vastly different proposition from peace-keeping ones. Neither have any redeeming features but in both
World wars your country is under attack, not just some one else's. Conscription is also a different proposition to those who join the armed forces as chosen careers. There's no easy answer to any of it, but, in the former, the choice is that of the individual.

Were you there?

Soldier_Of_The_White_Army · Post by **Soldier_Of_The_White_Army** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:34 pm

CAPSLOCK wrote:War - its a nasty place to be

Horrible things happen

Get used to it

Impossible!

Bruno · Post by **Bruno** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:38 pm

CAPSLOCK wrote:War - its a nasty place to be

Horrible things happen

Get used to it

What is it good for?

jaffka · Post by **jaffka** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:43 pm

Bruno wrote:
CAPSLOCK wrote:War - its a nasty place to be

Horrible things happen

Get used to it
What is it good for?

Absolutely nothing.

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