Unpaid Internships

[Salford Trotter]

My daughter has just been offered a 10 week unpaid internship at an Advertising Agency in London. Now, whilst she is very grateful for the opportunity and I know unpaid internships are common place, it just got me thinking how unfair it is given the fact it's in London with an inflated cost of living. I didn't think it was too much to ask for at least the minimum wage as there is no guarantee there will be a job at the end of it, slave labour if you ask me. Oh well the Bank of Mum and Dad to the rescue once again!

[bobo the clown]

I'm not sure it's strictly legal these days ... I'm sure mummy can give more info.

However, I'd be stunned if competent companies can't find a way round it. That all said & done, in truth, it's unlikely to be exactly 'slave labour' as ... unless she's doing truly bog standard stuff ... interns can take as much energy to direct & supervise than they provide. The real benefit comes when this can be used to show that she has some experience in the chosen career and will have references and it ought to put her toward the front when looking for employment in due course.

I sympathise as I have one looking now & it ain't easy, but it's a matter of playing the long game I'm afraid.

[Lord Kangana]

We have a couple of kids at work who get paid in the evenings off us, and slog all day at their (unpaid) internships. What they describe to me that they are doing during the day sounds remarkably just like that which I would refer to in such pejorative terms as "work" or indeed "a job".

F*cking disgraceful what this country is becoming.

[Salford Trotter]

I'm not sure it's strictly legal these days ... I'm sure mummy can give more info.

However, I'd be stunned if competent companies can't find a way round it. That all said & done, in truth, it's unlikely to be exactly 'slave labour' as ... unless she's doing truly bog standard stuff ... interns can take as much energy to direct & supervise than they provide. The real benefit comes when this can be used to show that she has some experience in the chosen career and will have references and it ought to put her toward the front when looking for employment in due course.

I sympathise as I have one looking now & it ain't easy, but it's a matter of playing the long game I'm afraid.

From the little she has been told so far the plan is that she'll shadow and support an Account Manager who has been groomed for a promotion. So there is a possibility if she does well that at the end of the unpaid period she could get offered a permanent role. As you pointed out Bobo the real hurdle in getting a permanent job is getting the relevant experience so if nothing else this will give her that.

[Gail Platz]

10 weeks is a long time, and I'd be wary about the 'opportunity for a permanent job' as I can usually smell bullshit when something like that is said. An unpaid placement in my opinion is a good thing and if you've no experience on the CV for the kind of thing you want to do, it's the breakthrough, I did it but only for 2 weeks and not 10. It did help.

[Verbal]

By and large they are an absolute disgrace.

[Hoboh]

Most company's theses days are taking the piss

[Salford Trotter]

It's a catch 22, without experience you've no chance getting a job which most would consider a 'skilled' position so those job seekers are become increasingly desperate. My daughter graduated with a 2:1 in English Literature from Sheffield Uni, a good degree by any measure from a redbrick Uni but she may as well studied Swahili Literature at Atherton Uni for what its been worth. Maybe that's an over reaction but it's a real frustration that I'm sure many parents of recently graduated students are experiencing.

[Prufrock]

Not sure it's illegal. On their list of things that sound good to say you'll sort without actually doing.

[RealLifeHobbit]

Competition for jobs is so fierce now that the more experience in a commercial environment one has, the more of an advantage they have when competing for a job.

I've done quite a few unpaid internships, which had to be supported by paid work too, but they all helped me to get the job I have now (a one year paid placement) so I would definitely recommend any sort of experience.

Also, companies are much likely to hire someone with a proven track record, especially if it's with the company in question; so if, after 10 weeks, your daughter has impressed, it is quite possible she may get a permanent role. If not, at least she has 10 weeks of quality experience on her CV.

[Bruce Rioja]

Competition for jobs is so fierce now that the more experience in a commercial environment one has, the more of an advantage they have when competing for a job.

Indeed. Far more so than a degree in creative basket weaving. Think on, parents

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

It depends... if something is packaged as a pure 'shadowing' scheme without set hours and responsibilities, then the 'employer' can say that the intern isn't a 'worker' for the purposes of minimum wage leglisation.

Generally though, what's going on is illegal but the law isn't enforced. There are some 'employers' who have loopholes such as charities and, funnily enough, MPs!

Peversely enough, the battle to stay outside the minimum wage legislation is sometimes part of the reason absolutely nothing is paid.

When I first graduated, I did a week unpaid in London, followed by 3 months at £1k a month, before I was moved up to a graduate consultant's salary. This was my foray into strategy consulting as opposed to law - interesting stuff, but ultimately it took me less than a year to work out that I needed to stop hiding from competing in the legal profession I had trained for.

It's difficult to know what to think - my take on it is probably that there is an unhealthy dynamic of a lack of mutual respect if there is more than one unpaid week. Having said that, I'm sure a lot of these internships would not happen if they had to pay minimum wage, so what's better - that an opportunity, albeit one that is really tough to make work, is there, or that there is no opportunity at all?

I would also say that in industries like advertising and fashion, where these things are most commonplace, long-term internships drag starting salaries down - to my friends who spent weeks surviving on expenses and handouts, it suddenly feels like a lot to be paid the £18-20k which is very common in those industries - in London, FFS!

[RealLifeHobbit]

Competition for jobs is so fierce now that the more experience in a commercial environment one has, the more of an advantage they have when competing for a job.

Indeed. Far more so than a degree in creative basket weaving. Think on, parents

What with the tuition fee hike as well, I don't see how degrees like that can be supported much longer.

I started out doing English, 5 weeks in realised I wouldn't get employed after graduation, so switched to Management... Much less enjoyable, but much more practical!

[Beefheart]

I'm pretty sure these aren't legal. They seem unfair too, I'm sure the well off can afford to support their kids for 10 weeks while they go and do these unpaid placements down in London. Unless you already live down there I don't see how else someone could expect to survive.

[Bijou Bob]

My daughter is currently doing Social Work at Uni and I've already told my son that if he wants to do a vocational degree I'll support him through it, but if he thinks he's going on the pish for 3 years doing Media Studies at some Uni that was a bus shelter until 2 years ago, it's not going to happen.

My niece has been having interviews in the last month for places next year. The queues for vocational courses have been enormous. Those for purely academic courses have been like tumbleweed apparently.

[Armchair Wanderer]

There was a Panorama about this a while ago. There are similar schemes for unpaid work (or work you have to pay for) in the houses of parliament and fashion houses.

10 weeks isn't too bad really if it's decent experience with possible career at the end. Good job that bank is still open

[Prufrock]

Point is though, it's all well and good if you can afford to work for ten weeks without pay. Plenty can't. Means big opportunities are only open to people with the independant means to pay for them.

Should, IMO, be limits on the length, and type of work, you can do on an unpaid business.

[Bruce Rioja]

Point is though, it's all well and good if you can afford to work for ten weeks without pay. Plenty can't. Means big opportunities are only open to people with the independant means to pay for them.

Should, IMO, be limits on the length, and type of work, you can do on an unpaid business.

That's you off of the short list, straight off.

Independent!!!!

[Salford Trotter]

There was a Panorama about this a while ago. There are similar schemes for unpaid work (or work you have to pay for) in the houses of parliament and fashion houses.

10 weeks isn't too bad really if it's decent experience with possible career at the end. Good job that bank is still open

Its a pity BBCi player doesn't go back that far.

Thanks to all who have contributed, these useful pointers are great though I doubt my daughter will be brave enough to ask for a penny never mind a living wage over the next couple of months. If anyone knows of a cheap room going spare in north London then pm me

[Prufrock]

I couldn't afford to do unpaid spelling lessons as a kid, I had my shifts in't mill to do! Discrimination.