creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

[BWFC_Insane]

Now Root. Completely thrown it away. 2-0 Australia. And we can’t blame anyone but ourselves. Awful bowling yesterday. Ridiculous batting when completely in charge today.

[Worthy4England]

Not sure about that one...If ever there was a moment for Big Ben. Now is it.

[jimbo]

Now Root. Completely thrown it away. 2-0 Australia. And we can’t blame anyone but ourselves. Awful bowling yesterday. Ridiculous batting when completely in charge today.

We’re still in a good position to get parity, which isn’t a bad effort. We’ll then be chasing in the fourth innings and they won’t have Lyon. It’s been a bad 40mins, but it’s far from game over.

[Worthy4England]

Given the conversation on the football signings thread, I think this is quite apt.

According to CricViz's expected runs and wickets model, England should be 153-6.

[jimbo]

Given the conversation on the football signings thread, I think this is quite apt.

According to CricViz's expected runs and wickets model, England should be 153-6.

I’ve just seen that and it surprised me. It doesn’t feel like that having watched a lot of the afternoon. It confirms we’ve batted well though.

[Worthy4England]

That's been a cracking days play, all things considered...

[Prufrock]

It's going to be another one of those isn't it...

Annoying from Pope, Duckett and Root. Bad from Crawley but I can see the thinking. Bad execution is one thing and will happen. But there just was no thinking for the others. They're a spinner down, let them wear the quicks out until they come back to you. Stokes played it perfectly.

Nip and tuck but after all that work we should be back on top and aren't.

[TANGODANCER]

Since when has 278-4 not been a good score M Vaughan? Some composure from Ben and Harry Brook and we could come out of this well. Tough on Lyon, nobody wants these things to happn, but Archer's out of the game, Stokes had a knee problem and a finger is keeping Moheen quiet, so que sera. To horse then....

[BWFC_Insane]

Now Root. Completely thrown it away. 2-0 Australia. And we can’t blame anyone but ourselves. Awful bowling yesterday. Ridiculous batting when completely in charge today.

We’re still in a good position to get parity, which isn’t a bad effort. We’ll then be chasing in the fourth innings and they won’t have Lyon. It’s been a bad 40mins, but it’s far from game over.

Lyon being out helps massively. But you wouldn’t fancy us chasing 300 plus. So in reality I think we need to not just get to parity but go past their score considering we have to bat last.

I suspect we need a lead of at least 50. Cos frankly I don’t think we have the attack capable of knocking them over for under 200 on this. So i think there is a lot of work to do.

But had we thrown a couple less away I’d feel very confident. It’s the three dismissals to short balls. 4 really if you count root and the no ball. Aussies were desperate and there was just no need.

We could still win it but that period to me feels like it’s going to be pivotal.

[Worthy4England]

You can't count Root twice!!! If he was out the first one, his second one wouldn't have happened!

They bowled their short stuff pretty well, accurate and in the right areas to be bothersome. I probably have a bit more sympathy for Pope than Zak. He's in a pretty good position and the difference between the toe and the middle is 4-6 inches on a ball that I think was doing 87?

Ben and Joe played pretty poor shots, but you probably can't be too harsh on Duckett, because he's played a pretty decent innings (as did Zak)

Thought Stokes and Brook (with a few very hairy moments of absolute village) settled down and saw it through decently.

As we saw this morning, we'll have to bat intelligently early tomorrow. That's neither MCC coaching nor Bazball. Just intelligently. We went at a decent lack today against a very good attack, bowling well.

[BWFC_Insane]

You can't count Root twice!!! If he was out the first one, his second one wouldn't have happened!

They bowled their short stuff pretty well, accurate and in the right areas to be bothersome. I probably have a bit more sympathy for Pope than Zak. He's in a pretty good position and the difference between the toe and the middle is 4-6 inches on a ball that I think was doing 87?

Ben and Joe played pretty poor shots, but you probably can't be too harsh on Duckett, because he's played a pretty decent innings (as did Zak)

Thought Stokes and Brook (with a few very hairy moments of absolute village) settled down and saw it through decently.

As we saw this morning, we'll have to bat intelligently early tomorrow. That's neither MCC coaching nor Bazball. Just intelligently. We went at a decent lack today against a very good attack, bowling well.

Zak was trying to find ways to not let Lyon tie an end up. It made sense to try and be aggressive to try and stop Lyon just holding an end. Lyon was too good.

Pope really did not need to play that. The risk reward was not in his favour and the match situation meant it was a crazy decision. He maybe was struggling with his shoulder in mitigation but he’s a much better player than Crawley but for me more culpable than Zak today.

[Worthy4England]

I've heard some whopping bollocks in my time.

We were 188-1 when Pope missed his timing by about 4 inches and a fraction of a second. It was a poorly executed shot, by fine margins.

[BWFC_Insane]

I've heard some whopping bollocks in my time.

We were 188-1 when Pope missed his timing by about 4 inches and a fraction of a second. It was a poorly executed shot, by fine margins.

It’s exactly all Australia were hoping for. They were desperate.

Sorry but I don’t think you have a case here. Trying to put the best spinner in test cricket off their lengths cos otherwise you can’t score is ‘unforgivable’ but Australia being in a desperate situation and going to short bowling with the field out and smacking it to the field 4 times (one was dropped) is ok and just unlucky?

Sorry but no. Crawley executed poorly but tactically made some sense. The rest executed poorly but made zero sense in the context of the game.

We all accept that Crawley is ‘looks nice then gets out’ he’s not great. We know that. Who else would we pick?

But Pope and Root and Duckett are all better than their dismissals today. Especially Pope and Root.

[jimbo]

I can forgive Crawley and Pope more than Duckett and Root.
Pope got in a good position, tried the positive option, mistimed It slightly, it cost him. Duckett and Root would have seen that, then seen Root glove behind pulling a no ball. That should have been the point where they re evaluate the risk / reward and probably just bed in and let Aus tire themselves out.

[BWFC_Insane]

I can forgive Crawley and Pope more than Duckett and Root.
Pope got in a good position, tried the positive option, mistimed It slightly, it cost him. Duckett and Root would have seen that, then seen Root glove behind pulling a no ball. That should have been the point where they re evaluate the risk / reward and probably just bed in and let Aus tire themselves out.

Yeah absolutely fair that. Pope also is injured. And had played relatively unusually - limiting his shots somewhat. So sure maybe we let him off.

Having seen that trap work though as you say for Root to come in and do that and Duckett is not good. Root especially as his natural game is not hooking and pulling from ball one.

I think its a completely different scenario were Lyon still fit and able to bowl. You'd have a different calculation then. They can rotate their quicks from one end bowling short and Lyon at the other and we're not going to go anywhere fast. So in that scenario - yeah you might decide its wise to take on that bowling. But seeing Lyon hobble off and then still doing it is what frustrates me mainly. You know that if you duck it for 2 overs they are going to have to start bowling at you.

I suppose Duckett's argument that he scores his runs hooking and pulling and that's his game is sort of fair enough. To an extent. But the situation specifically did warrant something different.

[TANGODANCER]

I've heard some whopping bollocks in my time.

We were 188-1 when Pope missed his timing by about 4 inches and a fraction of a second. It was a poorly executed shot, by fine margins.

It’s exactly all Australia were hoping for. They were desperate.

Sorry but I don’t think you have a case here. Trying to put the best spinner in test cricket off their lengths cos otherwise you can’t score is ‘unforgivable’ but Australia being in a desperate situation and going to short bowling with the field out and smacking it to the field 4 times (one was dropped) is ok and just unlucky?

Sorry but no. Crawley executed poorly but tactically made some sense. The rest executed poorly but made zero sense in the context of the game.

We all accept that Crawley is ‘looks nice then gets out’ he’s not great. We know that. Who else would we pick?

But Pope and Root and Duckett are all better than their dismissals today. Especially Pope and Root.

7.04 ? Have you tried Ovaltine?

[BWFC_Insane]

I've heard some whopping bollocks in my time.

We were 188-1 when Pope missed his timing by about 4 inches and a fraction of a second. It was a poorly executed shot, by fine margins.

It’s exactly all Australia were hoping for. They were desperate.

Sorry but I don’t think you have a case here. Trying to put the best spinner in test cricket off their lengths cos otherwise you can’t score is ‘unforgivable’ but Australia being in a desperate situation and going to short bowling with the field out and smacking it to the field 4 times (one was dropped) is ok and just unlucky?

Sorry but no. Crawley executed poorly but tactically made some sense. The rest executed poorly but made zero sense in the context of the game.

We all accept that Crawley is ‘looks nice then gets out’ he’s not great. We know that. Who else would we pick?

But Pope and Root and Duckett are all better than their dismissals today. Especially Pope and Root.

7.04 ? Have you tried Ovaltine?

Ha. 8.04 and I'm up at 5am most days!

[Worthy4England]

I've heard some whopping bollocks in my time.

We were 188-1 when Pope missed his timing by about 4 inches and a fraction of a second. It was a poorly executed shot, by fine margins.

It’s exactly all Australia were hoping for. They were desperate.

Sorry but I don’t think you have a case here. Trying to put the best spinner in test cricket off their lengths cos otherwise you can’t score is ‘unforgivable’ but Australia being in a desperate situation and going to short bowling with the field out and smacking it to the field 4 times (one was dropped) is ok and just unlucky?

Sorry but no. Crawley executed poorly but tactically made some sense. The rest executed poorly but made zero sense in the context of the game.

We all accept that Crawley is ‘looks nice then gets out’ he’s not great. We know that. Who else would we pick?

But Pope and Root and Duckett are all better than their dismissals today. Especially Pope and Root.

I'm just going to start with I was delighted overall with our team performance yesterday - all players did great. I'm not asking to drop anyone not have I suggested it (in relation to yesterday's dismissal), maybe you're mixing me up with someone else.

But I don't think I've ever said using feet to spinner is unforgivable (I might have said doing it and ending up a yard short is ) - you've made that bit up.

In terms of our approach to Lyon. Just to be (hopefully) clear.

We've clearly set a strategy that encourages using our feet to Lyon. Nothing wrong with that - I like the strategy. So far out of the 22 wickets we've lost, 4 have been stumpings off Lyon. As with "what we do with short stuff" - which I'll come on to, we've executed our feet movement with good and less good outcomes, some of which we've got away with and some of which we haven't. The strategy is fine. I don't want any players dropped or owt - Zak played well for his 48, but on the occasion he got out it was a poorly executed shot and it's not unreasonable to say "let's see if we can improve that."

On to short stuff. Whilst they have 1 very good spinner, they have a number of bowlers who, to use the terms you use for Lyon can bowl "world class short deliveries" in rotation. In the past we've shown ourselves to be susceptible to short bowling, so it seems to me, given yesterday's approach by Aus, that we looked to take it on upfront. As a strategy, that's not fundamentally different than taking Lyon on. It's reasonable. Their 4 in rotation allows them to bowl 12-16-20-24 overs as a collective attack pretty much at the very top of their energy. West Indies could go all day with their 4. So not taking it on can just as bothersome as Lyon pegging an end up. We didn't execute it very well. But 188-1 well set, seems reasonable with a batsman on 42, to back themselves. They were looking a bit ragged at 91-0 too.

Out of the three who got out pulling (because if we're judging risk on Root being dropped, we'd have to look at any missed stumping and drops vs Lyon) - they were all short on execution of the shot. It's only this part that I've been talking about. Of those, I think that Pope was probably nearest to executing it well - for reasons I've already given. It was still, as an outcome, a poor shot. Pope like Crawley, Duckett and Root, will review how they got out. That's certain. They'll look to see how they can execute it better. That's for certain too. As we adapt our style of play to different opponents they'll also continue looking at whether trying to throw a world class spinner is the optimum approach (it wouldn't be if we were completely shit at moving out feet), alongside whether we should continue to try and upfront vs short bowling....

[Worthy4England]

I can forgive Crawley and Pope more than Duckett and Root.
Pope got in a good position, tried the positive option, mistimed It slightly, it cost him. Duckett and Root would have seen that, then seen Root glove behind pulling a no ball. That should have been the point where they re evaluate the risk / reward and probably just bed in and let Aus tire themselves out.

That was my view on Pope too - in the right place, 4 inches out vs fast moving, bouncing delivery. Like you, I'm not giving Duckett and Root much credit - but you're not going to take any hasty decisions given one was on 98 and the other has 10,000 test runs...They will probably look at game management.

Brooks was lucky when he came in (but trying to be positive), Stokes did just what was needed.

[BWFC_Insane]

I've heard some whopping bollocks in my time.

We were 188-1 when Pope missed his timing by about 4 inches and a fraction of a second. It was a poorly executed shot, by fine margins.

It’s exactly all Australia were hoping for. They were desperate.

Sorry but I don’t think you have a case here. Trying to put the best spinner in test cricket off their lengths cos otherwise you can’t score is ‘unforgivable’ but Australia being in a desperate situation and going to short bowling with the field out and smacking it to the field 4 times (one was dropped) is ok and just unlucky?

Sorry but no. Crawley executed poorly but tactically made some sense. The rest executed poorly but made zero sense in the context of the game.

We all accept that Crawley is ‘looks nice then gets out’ he’s not great. We know that. Who else would we pick?

But Pope and Root and Duckett are all better than their dismissals today. Especially Pope and Root.

I'm just going to start with I was delighted overall with our team performance yesterday - all players did great. I'm not asking to drop anyone not have I suggested it (in relation to yesterday's dismissal), maybe you're mixing me up with someone else.

But I don't think I've ever said using feet to spinner is unforgivable (I might have said doing it and ending up a yard short is ) - you've made that bit up.

In terms of our approach to Lyon. Just to be (hopefully) clear.

We've clearly set a strategy that encourages using our feet to Lyon. Nothing wrong with that - I like the strategy. So far out of the 22 wickets we've lost, 4 have been stumpings off Lyon. As with "what we do with short stuff" - which I'll come on to, we've executed our feet movement with good and less good outcomes, some of which we've got away with and some of which we haven't. The strategy is fine. I don't want any players dropped or owt - Zak played well for his 48, but on the occasion he got out it was a poorly executed shot and it's not unreasonable to say "let's see if we can improve that."

On to short stuff. Whilst they have 1 very good spinner, they have a number of bowlers who, to use the terms you use for Lyon can bowl "world class short deliveries" in rotation. In the past we've shown ourselves to be susceptible to short bowling, so it seems to me, given yesterday's approach by Aus, that we looked to take it on upfront. As a strategy, that's not fundamentally different than taking Lyon on. It's reasonable. Their 4 in rotation allows them to bowl 12-16-20-24 overs as a collective attack pretty much at the very top of their energy. West Indies could go all day with their 4. So not taking it on can just as bothersome as Lyon pegging an end up. We didn't execute it very well. But 188-1 well set, seems reasonable with a batsman on 42, to back themselves. They were looking a bit ragged at 91-0 too.

Out of the three who got out pulling (because if we're judging risk on Root being dropped, we'd have to look at any missed stumping and drops vs Lyon) - they were all short on execution of the shot. It's only this part that I've been talking about. Of those, I think that Pope was probably nearest to executing it well - for reasons I've already given. It was still, as an outcome, a poor shot. Pope like Crawley, Duckett and Root, will review how they got out. That's certain. They'll look to see how they can execute it better. That's for certain too. As we adapt our style of play to different opponents they'll also continue looking at whether trying to throw a world class spinner is the optimum approach (it wouldn't be if we were completely shit at moving out feet), alongside whether we should continue to try and upfront vs short bowling....

If their fast bowlers were able to do that for the rest of the day and today then fair play. But Green is shielded from bowling much due to injury risk and Cummings only bowls shortish spells in normal scenarios.

I felt tactically it was a bad move to take it on in the given situation. Duck it, take fewer risks, pat down the ones you can for singles. Make them bowl at you again.