creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

If you have a life outside of BWFC, then this is the place to tell us all about your toilet habits, and those bizarre fetishes.......

Moderator: Zulus Thousand of em

Post Reply
User avatar
TANGODANCER
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 43133
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:35 pm
Location: Between the Regency and the Rubaiyat and forever trying to light penny candles from stars.

Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by TANGODANCER » Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:41 pm

Okay, now I'm embarrassed at the daftness of it all. Professional internationals? Gee.
Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

User avatar
BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 36010
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:44 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 7:43 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 5:58 pm
Honestly it’s beyond embarrassing now. I suspect a lot of first class teams could comfortably beat us.
I don't feel embarrassed, just cursing our rotten luck that the Windies tail end made the difference and, some poor umpiring and a weird pitch did the rest. No big surprise that the home boys are fired up with the result meaning so much to the series. None of us will be near as fed up as Root, Stokes, Crawley and co, especially Leach and Mahmood but it isn't over yet. Can tail-end history repeat itself again? Quien sabe? .

Not mentioning selection committees....b.t.w.
Between this and the Ashes that’s 8 tests and we’ve not won one or in truth come close to winning one. And we are losing against the Windies who aren’t very good.

This is a shambolic test setup, from top to bottom.

And we’ve left our best two bowlers, best by a country mile, at home.

We need a revolution and to bring in some people who know what they are doing. I can’t shake that with Strauss it’s all a bit jobs for the boys. Need someone from outside the English game to come in and shake some of these a bit.

User avatar
TANGODANCER
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 43133
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:35 pm
Location: Between the Regency and the Rubaiyat and forever trying to light penny candles from stars.

Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by TANGODANCER » Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:02 pm

No surrender, we have Leach and Mahmood...cough.. :oyea:

ae:)
Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

nicholaldo
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 2360
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by nicholaldo » Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:08 pm

I can't get over that Bairstow shot.

User avatar
TANGODANCER
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 43133
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:35 pm
Location: Between the Regency and the Rubaiyat and forever trying to light penny candles from stars.

Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by TANGODANCER » Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:25 pm

Time for the three lions, Woakes, Leach and Mahmood, to roar... :oyea:
Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

jimbo
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 3127
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:34 am

Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by jimbo » Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:54 pm

We’re on an absolutely historically appalling run. Is this 5 series defeats in a row? India, NZ, India, Aus and now NZ? We’ve only won one test I think in that time. The failings are the same. One of the only joys I had with this team was watching savouring every last drop of Anderson, but they’ve even taken that from me. I honestly can’t believe how bad we are.

User avatar
Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 32273
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:09 am

Aye, you could potentially mutter the odd excuse for the Ashes. But this is on a different level of shit. Agree with Insano, after the post Ashes clear out, we need a clear out.

User avatar
TANGODANCER
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 43133
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:35 pm
Location: Between the Regency and the Rubaiyat and forever trying to light penny candles from stars.

Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by TANGODANCER » Sun Mar 27, 2022 12:01 pm

Striking an odd note here, but I find it disrespectful to other great cricketing nations that we should always expect to be top dogs. Oz. S. Africa, N.Z, India, Pakistan, West Indies and other emerging nations all have/had their great cricketers as we have. We don't have to go back to Statham, Trueman and co, not even Bell, Trott or Botham, Cooke, Pietersen etc. Right now we're relying on Root and Stokes (and the missing Broad and Anderson) as heroes. We're just having our time as "not the best", but we'll be back there. "Cometh the hour" etc... :oyea:
Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

User avatar
Prufrock
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 23959
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:51 pm

Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Prufrock » Sun Mar 27, 2022 12:24 pm

No-one is expecting to be always top dog. We absolutely should expect to beat some other dog at some point over 5 series though.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

User avatar
Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 32273
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Mar 27, 2022 3:56 pm

Agreed. It's not unreasonable to point out that 108-8 isn't good enough. That's not disrespecting any bugger. I'd be grumbling if the teams I played for were 108-8.

User avatar
TANGODANCER
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 43133
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:35 pm
Location: Between the Regency and the Rubaiyat and forever trying to light penny candles from stars.

Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by TANGODANCER » Sun Mar 27, 2022 4:08 pm

Call me a cockeyed optimist. No blame to the tail end, the damage was well done before them. Okay, now I'm embarrassed. :oops:

Still in musical mode, but serious now, "Bewitched, bothered and bewildered" seems appropriate to describe England's capitulation, because did West Indies win it or did we give it away? The latter has to be a big probability because we just folded. Lees apart, our second innings was a joke. With what Joe Root is capable of ( and ignoring his captaincy questions) he sure went all weak-kneed when it mattered, as did our other less than heroic batsmen. Taking the innings as a whole, it was a total shambles. Hat off to the Windies for taking their chances while we played like novices in a Castle Hill school house match.
Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

User avatar
Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 32273
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:07 pm

The answer is both TD. West Indies made the most of our shambles. They've bowled us out twice for a fraction over 300 but we've had some seriously iffy shot selection which is pretty endemic. (Lees got a bit if a shooter tbf). Of the rest you just have to say woeful.

We were probably the better team in the second test but didn't make it count, but whilst we don't have Truman et al neither do they have Holding, Roberts, Sir Vivian etc.

So well played Windies, but there needs to be something done. Can't keep doing spineless.

jimbo
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 3127
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:34 am

Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by jimbo » Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:31 pm

With the amount of money in English cricket then we absolutely should be expecting to be amongst the top teams. In the last 12 months we’ve barely been competitive and the batting has broken so many records it has to rank amongst the worst ever lineups, anywhere in the world. It’s not unreasonable to expect such a wealthy nation to be able to put out a top 7 who don’t continually struggle to make 200.

User avatar
BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 36010
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:38 pm

I see there is a call for Broad to get the captaincy. Couldn’t agree more with this. Purely based on mentality. Broad wants to win. He has that desire burning inside him. Root doesn’t. The whole mentality of the setup needs to change. Pick your best side to win the test in front of you. Stop accepting mediocrity and laziness. I can’t accept that we allow the likes of Crawley change after chance to make the same mistake. Lad needs taking aside and dressing down. We don’t have the scope for lots of changes but it’s all too nice and too softy soft from the outside. We look beaten before we start.

Broad would at the very least add a bit of ‘nastiness’ into it and that for me is what’s needed.

User avatar
Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 32273
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Mar 28, 2022 4:33 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:38 pm
I see there is a call for Broad to get the captaincy. Couldn’t agree more with this. Purely based on mentality. Broad wants to win. He has that desire burning inside him. Root doesn’t. The whole mentality of the setup needs to change. Pick your best side to win the test in front of you. Stop accepting mediocrity and laziness. I can’t accept that we allow the likes of Crawley change after chance to make the same mistake. Lad needs taking aside and dressing down. We don’t have the scope for lots of changes but it’s all too nice and too softy soft from the outside. We look beaten before we start.

Broad would at the very least add a bit of ‘nastiness’ into it and that for me is what’s needed.
I'm ok (and think it's probably beyond time) for the captaincy to change. I don't think it's anything to do with "desire burning inside of Root." You don't average 50 in Tests and ODI's without desire burning very brightly. But that's different from "makes a great Captain." Root said the Ashes would be "defining" and it was, in most ways you wouldn't want to see. It does seem to be much easier to walk into the dressing room as part of a collapse than it is to face up to hostile (or on occasion not very hostile) bowling. I agree too, Crawley is too inconsistent, but we are a bit on the "well who ain't" treadmill with openers at the moment. But the rest are no great shakes at the moment either.

It is difficult to work out how nice and soft it is in the dressing room, having never been in it. When you look at Crawley's series, it'll show an average of 30 (which is fairly mediocre) but when you then twig he got 121, so he averaged 12 in the other 5 innings, it's grim reading (Stokes wasn't much better). Lawrence just about pushed 32. Then you come onto Root and Bairstow and you're above 45 but even there, Bairstow was 4 @ 21 and a 140. Similar with Root. So they all ort of had one decent innings (on a friendly pitch) then a sequence of mid-20 run averages. Lees who's being touted as the way to go (and I give him credit for crease occupation) managed to average 21.

The bowling wasn't much better. Overton and Woakes were woeful - averaging near 50.

User avatar
BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 36010
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Mar 28, 2022 4:53 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Mon Mar 28, 2022 4:33 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:38 pm
I see there is a call for Broad to get the captaincy. Couldn’t agree more with this. Purely based on mentality. Broad wants to win. He has that desire burning inside him. Root doesn’t. The whole mentality of the setup needs to change. Pick your best side to win the test in front of you. Stop accepting mediocrity and laziness. I can’t accept that we allow the likes of Crawley change after chance to make the same mistake. Lad needs taking aside and dressing down. We don’t have the scope for lots of changes but it’s all too nice and too softy soft from the outside. We look beaten before we start.

Broad would at the very least add a bit of ‘nastiness’ into it and that for me is what’s needed.
I'm ok (and think it's probably beyond time) for the captaincy to change. I don't think it's anything to do with "desire burning inside of Root." You don't average 50 in Tests and ODI's without desire burning very brightly. But that's different from "makes a great Captain." Root said the Ashes would be "defining" and it was, in most ways you wouldn't want to see. It does seem to be much easier to walk into the dressing room as part of a collapse than it is to face up to hostile (or on occasion not very hostile) bowling. I agree too, Crawley is too inconsistent, but we are a bit on the "well who ain't" treadmill with openers at the moment. But the rest are no great shakes at the moment either.

It is difficult to work out how nice and soft it is in the dressing room, having never been in it. When you look at Crawley's series, it'll show an average of 30 (which is fairly mediocre) but when you then twig he got 121, so he averaged 12 in the other 5 innings, it's grim reading (Stokes wasn't much better). Lawrence just about pushed 32. Then you come onto Root and Bairstow and you're above 45 but even there, Bairstow was 4 @ 21 and a 140. Similar with Root. So they all ort of had one decent innings (on a friendly pitch) then a sequence of mid-20 run averages. Lees who's being touted as the way to go (and I give him credit for crease occupation) managed to average 21.

The bowling wasn't much better. Overton and Woakes were woeful - averaging near 50.
Yeah don’t get me wrong. It’s no magic fix. But I was done with root after he came out and blamed the bowlers in Australia after yet another shameful top order batting collapse. He just isn’t captain material for me.

And we can’t know what the dressing room is like but it just smacks of being jobs for the boys and all quite ‘nice’. Nobody wants to criticise anyone in public. And that culture hasn’t worked historically and doesn’t seem to work now. We need spirit. Sure, we can’t have public hairdryer treatments loads. But it feels to me like it’s gone too far towards ‘turn up get your cap, be useless’ get a reward or another cap with little pressure or expectancy.

I always come back to winning captains like Morgan have structures around them where demands are placed heavily on players to perform. And the coaching backs that up. Trust and expectation. I don’t feel any of that with the test side. 1 win in 17. And I don’t sense Root wants to accept this is bottom of the barrel historically awful and needs change. He wants to just ‘bumble along’. I don’t mean he should step down. But where is the public fire to demand more? It’s absent. Silver wood and then Collingwood. We need a new broom from outside England to sweep clean and really bring some greater expectations with them. It’s harsh to pick on players that aren’t good enough but there are selections that scream ‘we don’t think we can win’. And that mentality is deadly.

User avatar
Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 32273
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Mar 28, 2022 5:47 pm

Not Joe's finest hour when he blamed the bowlers. Can only assume, he was looking to deflect from the batsmen. I think there were times in Australia where we bowled the wrong length. We get a bit giddy on the bouncier pitches, but forget that they play on them lots. There's an interesting balance between giving a batsman enough of a go and hiring and firing every game. Crawley has now had 38 innings averaging 28, which is more than double what David Steele got facing up to the Windies and averaging 42. You do get the feeling that it's far too easy to walk back into the hut as part of yet-another-collapse. I can see why people would think Crawley had some sort of "doesn't matter you're the future" tag about him. But we always come back to "who's the saviour." What would be your top 7 at the moment? I'm not asking to try and put you on the spot, but I'd struggle to pick a top 7 with any confidence, other than re-arranging some deckchairs. Even if you look at Dan Lawrence he's averaging under 30 and he's yet another "great hope"

Agree that we should be playing our best team in tests (in general).

User avatar
BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 36010
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:11 pm

Yeah I guess my point is that in the past we could look to senior established players to set the standards. But now we don’t have many of those and the few we do like Root aren’t at least outwardly ‘that type’. The likes of Crawley to me need that internal and external pressure applying. He’s had the benefit of quite a few goes, the setup, the coaching. He’s obviously talented but averages 28. Way below the standard of even a decent test all rounder. So he needs to focus and apply himself. Yet I just don’t perceive those demands being made.


It should be the captain in the media demanding mode from these players. They shouldn’t have to be shielding them. The pressure needs cranking up because If you can’t do it then test match isn’t for you.

User avatar
Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 32273
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Mar 29, 2022 12:24 pm

Interesting comments from Jimmy regarding Root. Putting a lot of the "problem" on the two people above him. I hear what you're saying about "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the fire" but, if what we have out on the pitch is the best we can muster, then just flirting them off wouldn't solve the problem either. All you have to do is look at the England opening batsmen list of the last 10 years, the number in brackets is their average as opener, rather than anywhere else in the batting order...But there's plenty of 'em and not a lot to pick from. So who you opening with in the brave new world? Obvs quite a lot of retiree's in the timeframe...

Cook (45), Strauss (41), Crawley (25), Burns (30), Root (42), Lees (21), Sibley (29), Stokes (no average 78 not out in his one go), Compton (31). Roy (9), Jennings (25), Lyth (20), Hales (27), Stoneman (28), Ali (14), Trott (19), Hameed (23), KP (12), Robson (31), Denley(31) , Carberry (28), Leach (46.5), Buttler (2), Duckett (23)

User avatar
Prufrock
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 23959
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:51 pm

Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Prufrock » Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:05 pm

Stokes and Leach!

Double leftie though so maybe not.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 66 guests