creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm somewhere in the middle. Anyone young who looks like they've earned a shot should be in. Sibley, Pope and Curran should all tour and play. Wouldn't be dropping the good performers yet unless we have to though, we haven't got enough!

I think BWFCi is harsh on Stokes bowling, but it does seem obvious his batting is far more important to us than his bowling atm.

Then, do we try to find a proper no.3, then go Root, Pope, Stokes, Wk, Curran, bowlers. Do you try to mould Pope into a 3? Play Stokes there? Or do you bump everyone one and fit another middle order (Roy, Buttler, Bairstow if Foakes is keeping)?

Tough. And Christ knows where we get a spinner from.

Stokes has good spells but I feel given his talent with the bat he should be considered a specialist batsman. Perhaps can give him the ball in right conditions or situations. But I think he could be a good number 3.

[TANGODANCER]

I think the focus should now be aiming to have a good team in 2 years, and I think the players I’ve mentioned have more chance of being good test players than the ones I’m leaving out who’ve underachieved for so long without showing any signs of progress. We’ve got a new coach coming in, let’s build a new team.

All very fine if the rest of the cricketing world stands still Jimbo. It won't and we'll still just do the best we can and time will come when Britain is fully found out by sheer numbers amongst the opposition and lose test matches against China, Japan and Korea.. We have territorial numbers from the Berwick to Gretna border line down to King Arthur land,(minus Wales) whilst teams like he Aussies have all the land a herd of kangaroos can leap about in from Darwin To Melbourne and twice that east to west as the map crow flies. We're small potatoes in any international sport (for years we took on and lost Ryder Cups to America ( a country taking on a continent) till England became Europe and sort of balanced the scale a bit. ("Just give me ten (eleven) who are stout-hearted men and I'll soon give you ten thousand more!"...as the song goes ) In short, divine rights stops outside the church doors. Bat on...

I think you’ve missed my point somewhat. I’m saying we shouldn’t simply stick with what we’ve got now as they’ve underachieved time and time again again, and probably will continue to do so. I think there’d be more benefit to backing a talented group of young players who over a 2 year period with some experience might go on to be far better players than what we’ve got now. It might not work out but at least we’ll have given it a go. There’s a new coach coming in and we’re at the end of an Ashes series, so it feels like a good time to start a new era.

No, not really Jimbo, and I'm not disagreeing. I'll be the first to admit I'm far from knowledgeable on cricket outside the national XI these days.( A long time's passed since I watched Cyril Washbrook at Old Tafford) I'm pretty proud of us for what we achieve as a very small country in any sport, particularly our youth. My own point was the rest of the world are all on the same wavelength and moving right on with us. It's just that we're not expected to win everything all the time anymore. No hassle..

[jimbo]

I'm somewhere in the middle. Anyone young who looks like they've earned a shot should be in. Sibley, Pope and Curran should all tour and play. Wouldn't be dropping the good performers yet unless we have to though, we haven't got enough!

I think BWFCi is harsh on Stokes bowling, but it does seem obvious his batting is far more important to us than his bowling atm.

Then, do we try to find a proper no.3, then go Root, Pope, Stokes, Wk, Curran, bowlers. Do you try to mould Pope into a 3? Play Stokes there? Or do you bump everyone one and fit another middle order (Roy, Buttler, Bairstow if Foakes is keeping)?

Tough. And Christ knows where we get a spinner from.

Stokes has good spells but I feel given his talent with the bat he should be considered a specialist batsman. Perhaps can give him the ball in right conditions or situations. But I think he could be a good number 3.

Agreed. He’s best as a back up option - the odd spell here and there but not relied on to bowl 10+ overs a day test after test. I think the ideal structure would be 3 front line seamers and a good spinner who can bowl a lot of overs and contain teams, with short bursts from stokes to mix things up. Finding that spinner is an issue at the moment. I’d give Leach a little longer though before writing him off.

Appreciate the comments about not binning off decent performers just yet, but I feel that going with Archer, Anderson and Broad as your 3 seamers will block the development of the next generation for the next 12 months. Accept that the replacements might not be as good for now, but by giving them the experience we’ll hopefully be in a better position in 12 months when broad and Anderson probably retire.

[jimbo]

I’m generally pretty conservative regarding selection by the way - always prefer to give people one game too many rather than not enough. I just think now is a good time to set off on a new path - not dissimilar to what the ODI side did after the 2015 WC.

[BWFC_Insane]

Root has a lot of work to do if he wants to ever be considered one of England's better batsmen. For me he has become very very loose technique wise - flashes outside way too much.

I think he's a very poor captain too though not sure who else could do it.

[jimbo]

Root has a lot of work to do if he wants to ever be considered one of England's better batsmen. For me he has become very very loose technique wise - flashes outside way too much.

I think he's a very poor captain too though not sure who else could do it.

Root just looks a bit worn out. He used to be so busy and able to effortlessly accumulate runs but often this summer it’s looked like a grind. He plays more cricket than anyone in the world and also captains a struggling side - it’s sure to have an effect.

Replacement captains are a tricky one. Nowadays players have never captained a side before getting the test job. There’s no obvious stand outs. Burns has experience but is still very early into his career. Buttler is respected and apparently good tactically but can’t guarantee a spot.

[Bruce Rioja]

Was Burns trying to fool them by playing that club cricket, 2nd XI, 8th batter shot there?

[BWFC_Insane]

Was Burns trying to fool them by playing that club cricket, 2nd XI, 8th batter shot there?

Can't play the short pitched delivery. I'm not in the "Burns fan club" he's done better than the rest in the top order this summer but I shudder to imagine him on hard bouncy fast pitches....

[Prufrock]

Lord above. Scratch that, burn it all down.

[TANGODANCER]

Accepting Steve Smith is an alien, for me this test series has been about superior Aussie bowling more than anything else. All the talk was about what Archer was going to do to the Oz; in reality they gave us bowling lessons. They bring back Siddel, Starc and Marsh and leather us. T20 or ODI this ain't. Twice, Ben Stokes saved our blushes with the bat, but we sure missed Jimmy this time.

[TANGODANCER]

271-8 at stumps. Butler 64, Leach 10. Not done yet as it's creeping towards respectable. Not scintillating, but respectable.

[BWFC_Insane]

Thank god for Buttler. I think he madness to drop him. He’s naturally got more talent in his little finger than our top order. Sure he’s got to work hard at test level but he’s showing the right discipline last few games.

[Harry Genshaw]

It won't and we'll still just do the best we can and time will come when Britain is fully found out by sheer numbers amongst the opposition and lose test matches against China, Japan and Korea.. We have territorial numbers from the Berwick to Gretna border line down to King Arthur land,(minus Wales) whilst teams like the Aussies have all the land a herd of kangaroos can leap about in from Darwin To Melbourne and twice that east to west as the map crow flies. We're small potatoes in any international sport (for years we took on and lost Ryder Cups to America ( a country taking on a continent) till England became Europe and sort of balanced the scale a bit. ("Just give me ten (eleven) who are stout-hearted men and I'll soon give you ten thousand more!"...as the song goes ) In short, divine rights stops outside the church doors. Bat on...

I'm pretty proud of us for what we achieve as a very small country in any sport, particularly our youth.

We've got far far more populous to rely on, than Australia, TD!!

Isn't English cricket always like this? Feast or famine?

We won a world cup recently and seem to have a reasonable test side. No more, no less

[Prufrock]

Aye, well played Jos, been poor with the bat this series but read since he came back only Root has got more runs. That average can't be helped by batting with the tail and having to swing hard to get us out of jail.

Bairstow must be in trouble, we've got three keepers knocking on the door, he's not the best keeper of the three, nor is he the best batsman.

Still we're lucky with Root's triple drop, Curran no ball, and still way below par. No way we're getting Smith out twice on this track.

Agree with TD that the difference has been Smith and the bowling. Archer and Broad been v good but no-one else shone. Oh if Jimmy had been fit.

This Aussie attack isn't quite as good as the peak 90s one, but it isn't far off, and feck me they've about 15 of the c*nts. And to cap it off Mitchell fecking Marsh gets 4. Lord above.

[jimbo]

The Australian pace attack has been really impressive. Arguably there isn’t a stand out all time great like they’ve had in the past but as a unit they all compliment each other well, keep running in close to 90mph and don’t give anything away. Their achievement has been more remarkable given Lyon’s not been quite on it. Very hard to have a successful 4 man attack of 3 quicks and a spinner if the spinner isn’t right on it.

Good innings by buttler today. Looked composed and confident for the first time this summer. Possibly a career saving innings, especially if he can put something together tomorrow and in the second innings.

Our attack has always had a weak link who’s lost control of the game - be it Ali, Woakes, Archer at old Trafford, or Stokes. Australia, aside from when Bairstow and Stokes we’re together at Headingly have been unrelenting.

[TANGODANCER]

We've got far far more populous to rely on, than Australia, TD!!Isn't English cricket always like this? Feast or famine?
We won a world cup recently and seem to have a reasonable test side. No more, no less

Aye, but how many are test cricket quality Harry? We're hardly stacked up with either batsmen or bowlers despite. However, we ain't lost it yet...Bat on.....

[Bruce Rioja]

294 all out? Whadda we think? Reasonable?

[taddyontoast]

294 all out? Whadda we think? Reasonable?

I have subjected this question to some in depth analysis and thought and concluded that it's better than 67 all out! You're welcome!

[TANGODANCER]

Got to get one of the bat twins out or they'll beat us on their own. Essential.....

[Bruce Rioja]

294 all out? Whadda we think? Reasonable?

I have subjected this question to some in depth analysis and thought and concluded that it's better than 67 all out! You're welcome!

You've just made me 'LOL'. If I get in trouble now....