The middle East

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Bruce Rioja
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Re: The middle East

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:40 pm

^ So five volumes then? :conf:
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Re: The middle East

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:43 pm

I'm presuming Monty, that you are talking Montreal University. Do they have an online copy of Vol 4? Only I need an electronic copy - scanning in mine would be just too tedious for words.
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Re: The middle East

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:45 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:^ So five volumes then? :conf:
It's alright - he's being pedantic. He does it for a living... I think.
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Re: The middle East

Post by Montreal Wanderer » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:16 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:I'm presuming Monty, that you are talking Montreal University. Do they have an online copy of Vol 4? Only I need an electronic copy - scanning in mine would be just too tedious for words.
Bruce, four volumes in five is how we describe it. it is important to know else Spotty's request for Vol. 4 would lack clarity.

No, Spotty, Montreal University, or more properly, Université de Montréal, is one of the French universities. I refer to McGill University, my alma mater. We do not have the online version though it is available. Just go to Archive.org and download the .pdf. Try http://archive.org/details/historymongolss00howogoog" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: The middle East

Post by thebish » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:29 pm

Montreal Wanderer wrote:
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:I'm presuming Monty, that you are talking Montreal University. Do they have an online copy of Vol 4? Only I need an electronic copy - scanning in mine would be just too tedious for words.
Bruce, four volumes in five is how we describe it. it is important to know else Spotty's request for Vol. 4 would lack clarity.

but your statement that it is four parts in five physical volumes uses the word "volume" in precisely the same way that LLS did.

you define the four as "parts" and the five as "volumes". Don't see how that us any different to what Spotty wrote.

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Re: The middle East

Post by Montreal Wanderer » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:32 pm

thebish wrote:
Montreal Wanderer wrote:
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:I'm presuming Monty, that you are talking Montreal University. Do they have an online copy of Vol 4? Only I need an electronic copy - scanning in mine would be just too tedious for words.
Bruce, four volumes in five is how we describe it. it is important to know else Spotty's request for Vol. 4 would lack clarity.

but your statement that it is four parts in five physical volumes uses the word "volume" in precisely the same way that LLS did.

you define the four as "parts" and the five as "volumes". Don't see how that us any different to what Spotty wrote.
Picking more knits, bish? Oh, well. The fuller description of the work is "pt. 1. The Mongols proper and the Kalmuks ... with two maps / by E. G. Ravenstein -- pt. 2. The so-called Tartars of Russia and Central Asia (2 v.) -- pt. 3. The Mongols of Persia -- pt. 4. Supplement and indices". If he asks for Vol 4, does he want the fourth physical volume or pt. 4 which is the index and the fifth physical volume? I'm guessing the latter - which is not volume 4. Okay?
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Re: The middle East

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:04 pm

what he wants is vol 5 of the first edition, which is part 4. He (me) used volume 4 because Monty had, what he meant was part 4 which in the original hardbacks was volume 5 even though there were years (if not decades) beteen the original printings!
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Re: The middle East

Post by Montreal Wanderer » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:12 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:what he wants is vol 5 of the first edition, which is part 4. He (me) used volume 4 because Monty had, what he meant was part 4 which in the original hardbacks was volume 5 even though there were years (if not decades) beteen the original printings!
Just as I thought you wanted. I figured you would only want an electronic copy of the index volume. Did you download it?

Btw, my original description was "It is actually four parts in five physical volumes (pt 2 having two volumes)."
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Re: The middle East

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:29 pm

Montreal Wanderer wrote:
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:what he wants is vol 5 of the first edition, which is part 4. He (me) used volume 4 because Monty had, what he meant was part 4 which in the original hardbacks was volume 5 even though there were years (if not decades) beteen the original printings!
Just as I thought you wanted. I figured you would only want an electronic copy of the index volume. Did you download it?

Btw, my original description was "It is actually four parts in five physical volumes (pt 2 having two volumes)."
cheers. On phone only at present, I shall try to download tomorrow...
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Re: The middle East

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:48 pm

So five volumes then?! 8)
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Re: The middle East

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:52 pm

I think I'm starting to understand the complexity of "The Middle East" - it's taken the best part of a day to work out how many volumes a single publication has. I suspect getting to a cease fire may take a while longer.

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Re: The middle East

Post by Montreal Wanderer » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:55 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:So five volumes then?! 8)
Five physical pieces called by the author Parts 1, 2 3 and 4 - Part 2 was in two physical pieces. In the cataloguing trade we call this "4 vols in 5". However, the author did not use the term volume at all - just Part.
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Re: The middle East

Post by Montreal Wanderer » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:58 pm

Worthy4England wrote:I think I'm starting to understand the complexity of "The Middle East" - it's taken the best part of a day to work out how many volumes a single publication has. I suspect getting to a cease fire may take a while longer.
:D
I think it took him over 50 years to write it!
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Re: The middle East

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:09 pm

Montreal Wanderer wrote:
Bruce Rioja wrote:So five volumes then?! 8)
Five physical pieces called by the author Parts 1, 2 3 and 4 - Part 2 was in two physical pieces. In the cataloguing trade we call this "4 vols in 5". However, the author did not use the term volume at all - just Part.
Montreal Wanderer wrote:my original description was "It is actually four parts in five physical volumes (pt 2 having two volumes)."

So five volumes then?! :oyea:
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Re: The middle East

Post by thebish » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:00 pm

Montreal Wanderer wrote: Picking more knits, bish? Oh, well. The fuller description of the work is "pt. 1. The Mongols proper and the Kalmuks ... with two maps / by E. G. Ravenstein -- pt. 2. The so-called Tartars of Russia and Central Asia (2 v.) -- pt. 3. The Mongols of Persia -- pt. 4. Supplement and indices". If he asks for Vol 4, does he want the fourth physical volume or pt. 4 which is the index and the fifth physical volume? I'm guessing the latter - which is not volume 4. Okay?
I think it was YOU picking knits, Monty... okay?

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Re: The middle East

Post by thebish » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:02 pm

Montreal Wanderer wrote:
Bruce Rioja wrote:So five volumes then?! 8)
Five physical pieces called by the author Parts 1, 2 3 and 4 - Part 2 was in two physical pieces. In the cataloguing trade we call this "4 vols in 5". However, the author did not use the term volume at all - just Part.
you did though - you said it was in five physical volumes - and four parts.

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Re: The middle East

Post by Montreal Wanderer » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:33 am

thebish wrote:
Montreal Wanderer wrote: Picking more knits, bish? Oh, well. The fuller description of the work is "pt. 1. The Mongols proper and the Kalmuks ... with two maps / by E. G. Ravenstein -- pt. 2. The so-called Tartars of Russia and Central Asia (2 v.) -- pt. 3. The Mongols of Persia -- pt. 4. Supplement and indices". If he asks for Vol 4, does he want the fourth physical volume or pt. 4 which is the index and the fifth physical volume? I'm guessing the latter - which is not volume 4. Okay?
I think it was YOU picking knits, Monty... okay?
Fine.
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Re: The middle East

Post by Montreal Wanderer » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:38 am

thebish wrote:
Montreal Wanderer wrote:
Bruce Rioja wrote:So five volumes then?! 8)
Five physical pieces called by the author Parts 1, 2 3 and 4 - Part 2 was in two physical pieces. In the cataloguing trade we call this "4 vols in 5". However, the author did not use the term volume at all - just Part.
you did though - you said it was in five physical volumes - and four parts.
Yes, I did. The distinction may be subtle but it means, in a library catalogue, four intellectual volumes in five physical volumes. It so happens Howorth did not use the term volume but said parts and divisions, but that is irrelevant to library cataloguing jargon. But it is not too subtle for you because you knew what was mean and are just doing the usual.
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Re: The middle East

Post by Hoboh » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:20 am

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -every-law" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting

And

It seems like Putin is a very shrewd political mover, he may just come out of this with a lot of 'face' and credability.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/s ... al-weapons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: The middle East

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:39 am

Montreal Wanderer wrote:
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:I'm presuming Monty, that you are talking Montreal University. Do they have an online copy of Vol 4? Only I need an electronic copy - scanning in mine would be just too tedious for words.
Bruce, four volumes in five is how we describe it. it is important to know else Spotty's request for Vol. 4 would lack clarity.

No, Spotty, Montreal University, or more properly, Université de Montréal, is one of the French universities. I refer to McGill University, my alma mater. We do not have the online version though it is available. Just go to Archive.org and download the .pdf. Try http://archive.org/details/historymongolss00howogoog" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's okay - my pleasure.
Oh dear. Only parts 2 (div 1) & 3 appear to have been digitised. How infuriating... no part 4
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