You take the high road...

[Hoboh]

Well now it's all out in the open I think this deserves a thread of it's own!

The white paper states: "If we vote no, Scotland stands still. A once-in-a-generation opportunity to follow a different path, and choose a new and better direction for our nation, is lost. Decisions about Scotland would remain in the hands of others."


Stating too that the union flag would no longer fly in Scotland, the document confirms a series of Scottish government and Scottish National party pledges for independence, including:


• Retain the pound as Scotland's currency and would take on a fair share of the UK's debt.

• Take a full geographic share of North Sea oil and gas reserves, with more than 90% of the UK reserves in Scottish waters.

• No rise in general taxation to fund public spending, while increasing tax allowances in line with inflation.

• A new written constitution with the Queen as head of state.

• The renationalisation of the Royal Mail.

•A new Scottish defence force of 15,000 regular personnel and a new intelligence and security agency.

•A guarantee that the minimum wage will rise by inflation: if that had been policy already since 2008, the lowest paid would be £675 better off.

•A network of 70 to 90 embassies and consulates costing up to £120m.

• Cutting corporation tax by 3% and cutting air passenger duty by 50%.

• Extending free childcare to one-year-olds, creating 35,000 new jobs.

• A new Scottish Broadcasting Service to replace the BBC.

• An "early agreement on the speediest safe removal of [Trident] nuclear weapons a priority".

The party of the fish clearly live in cuckoo land.

The English should be allowed our say on all this I suspect the suicide rate North of the border would be huge when we'd finished!

[Bruce Rioja]

Somethings I was wondering -

Thing 1 - Do Scots living outside of Scotland get to vote?

Thing 2 - Do non-Scots living in Scotland get to vote?

[clapton is god]

Somethings I was wondering -

Thing 1 - Do Scots living outside of Scotland get to vote?

Thing 2 - Do non-Scots living in Scotland get to vote?

I seem to remember that a Scot not in residence at the time of voting has no say in the matter. Sean Connery, for example. No idea about Thing 2 but I doubt the answer is 'yes'. I dont think Salmond would give us, in particular, the steam.

[William the White]

Somethings I was wondering -

Thing 1 - Do Scots living outside of Scotland get to vote?

Thing 2 - Do non-Scots living in Scotland get to vote?

Everyone registered to vote in Scotland may vote.

No one else.

I look at that menu and think it would be nice if Bolton could apply to join Scotland.

[bobo the clown]

Somethings I was wondering -

Thing 1 - Do Scots living outside of Scotland get to vote?

Thing 2 - Do non-Scots living in Scotland get to vote?

Can't see how they can give 'Thing 1' unless they hold some residency and neither can I see how they prevent 'Thing 2'.

There's a lot of wishful thinking in that dream-list they've cooked up, and more than a few cheeky assumptions.

I've always wondered about these things ..... if an interest group get a referendum and it doesn't succeed they always seem to come back a few years later to ask again.

If it does succeed, even marginally, do they ever then ask again a few years later ? ("No chucking fance" is the answer, in case you aren't sure).

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Somethings I was wondering -

Thing 1 - Do Scots living outside of Scotland get to vote?

Thing 2 - Do non-Scots living in Scotland get to vote?

Everyone registered to vote in Scotland may vote.

No one else.

I look at that menu and think it would be nice if Bolton could apply to join Scotland.

You'd like Bolton to shell out for new embassies, abolish the BBC and cut corporation tax by 3%?

[William the White]

Somethings I was wondering -

Thing 1 - Do Scots living outside of Scotland get to vote?

Thing 2 - Do non-Scots living in Scotland get to vote?

Everyone registered to vote in Scotland may vote.

No one else.

I look at that menu and think it would be nice if Bolton could apply to join Scotland.

You'd like Bolton to shell out for new embassies, abolish the BBC and cut corporation tax by 3%?

Rather overstated - BBC would be augmented by the dynamic new Scotland and Bolton broadcasting service... And we'd no longer be shelling out for all those UK embassies, so that's probably a saving... I'd like Scotland and Bolton to have an elected head of state, but given the commitment of our new nation to getting rid of trident, childcare and a new deal on pensions i can live with that.

[boltonboris]

How do they afford all of this??

I see no mention of the free University fees and prescriptons up there for a start.

The cost of general goods in Scotland is going to go absolutely sky-high

[Lord Kangana]

Well the won't be the cost of subsidising London infrastructure projects for a kick off.

[Bruce Rioja]

How do they afford all of this??

Presumably through sales of the North Sea oil that Salmond and his acolytes are forever chiming on about.

Have there been any feasibility studies carried out? Do they know how much is still down there?

[Lord Kangana]

Not much, if what I hear is anything to go off.

[bobo the clown]

How do they afford all of this??

Presumably through sales of the North Sea oil that Salmond and his acolytes are forever chiming on about.

Have there been any feasibility studies carried out? Do they know how much is still down there?

A lot more than you imagine. However, much extraction depends on price. The higher the sale price the more viable the extraction becomes, so it's a bit chicken & egg.

At todays prices (& beyond) it becomes worthwhile considering re-using some previously 'exhausted' fields but that's easier said than done. The same with ones which are know to exist but have so far seemed a bit too difficult (read costly or marginal) to bother with.

Of course it 'only' benefits the nation with a few ... a good few, admittedly ... jobs and the tax. The majority of Company's involved are multi-national. Companies are not always keen to develop in high tax and high control/bureaucratic regimes which Scotland, most certainly will become.

However, even with all this extra money ... if indeed it materialises ... there are some pretty huge spending plans which, unsupported, they will not find easy to fund. Much of their agenda seems based on a wish & a prayer.

Anyway, time will tell.

[boltonboris]

Not much, if what I hear is anything to go off.

And they'll need to shell out for the infrastructure to further cultivate it.. Where is that money coming from?

It'll cost them billions, but they're not increasing taxes....

[bwfcdan94]

I don't think Scotland will break away, I can see the majority voting no.

[boltonboris]

They hate the English on the most part, so it won't be decision based on rational thinking. that's why I think it'll be an overwhelming 'Yes' vote for independence

[Lord Kangana]

I think thats a ridiculous sweeping statement Boris. I work now and then with a couple of Scots. Its genuinely a very perplexing issue for them. They work large parts of their lives down in England - will there still be freedom of movement and employment? One of them even told me that they get a worse exchange rate on their Scottish Pounds when abroad because of the distrust of Scottish Financial institutions after RBS etc(this is, apparently, no joke). So what currency would they use? And after the recent debacle over shipyards, what effect will it have on Scottish jobs?

On the flip side, as they both concurred, who the f*ck hates Scotland enough to nuke them? So they'd save on not having the burden of Trident, or could even charge rent to the UK Governement for its use of Scottish ports. And they'd probably destroy the Tory Party in Scotland once and for all. So quite an appealing state of affairs.

Anyway, I could go on, but firstly, I would be unsurprised if your average Scotsman hates the English, based on the many sweeping ignorances you read here, but I'd also be equally surprised if they voted for independence from us this time. And if not this time, then I'm certain it'll be a generation before they're given the chance again. I could be wrong, but I think its a lot of fuss over nothing.

[bwfcdan94]

Fair enough. My reasoning is that they (if they were to use rational thinking and common sense) should know that it would be an economical disaster if they were to leave Britain and become independent. We (England) have been pretty much supporting them since the dawn of time (the same for the Welsh) and therefore without us the country will struggle. In simple they take more out of the system then they put in and they will realise it when they cant afford to pay pensioners there pensions. However in reality they will vote yes because of an overwhelming hatred of the English which will be a move regretted for generations to come. So if they do want to become independent then lets get rid of them properly, we should only allow them(Scotland's people) back in with work visa's otherwise they can visit for a month tops on a visiting visa(similar system to that of in the U S of A basically). I wont miss the likes of Glasgow, Motherwell, Stirling, Aberdeen and Peterhead will you? Lets build a wall!

Who knows Scotland today, Teeside tomorrow and Burnley(and Colne/Nelson) another day. Ok maybe that's a bit to far.

As far as I can see the only real losers out of Scotland leaving will be it's people, BT and Scottish Power.

[Bruce Rioja]

I think that when I get home I'll raise a single malt to the fact that Dan's just spelled 'independent' correctly.

[LeverEnd]

They hate the English on the most part, so it won't be decision based on rational thinking. that's why I think it'll be an overwhelming 'Yes' vote for independence

People fear change though, so I think they'll err on the side of caution and stick with the devil they know and a Westminster government.

It's like how the opposition always seem to do much better in pre-election polls. Polls and actual voting can differ massively, and I think this will be one of those occasions. Can't say I've followed it too closely though.

[bwfcdan94]

I think that when I get home I'll raise a single malt to the fact that Dan's just spelled 'independent' correctly.

Buy them all in quick before they go up in price .