Nelson Mandela RIP

[thebish]

not sure it was, strictly speaking, a funeral... that's yet to come!!

[TANGODANCER]

What the feck were Cameron, the Danish bird and Obama doing taking a 'selfie' at a feckin funeral? Absolute weapons..

Sorry Boris, but, for me, all that's one massive storm in a teacup from reporters looking for sensation. It wasn't a funeral but a celebration of Mandela's death ( edit, make that his life) in a football stadium, with some seventy thousand folk dancing and singing everywhere. Had they done it whilst a blessing or prayer was being said in church I'd have totally agreed. As it is, can't understand the outrage? The smiles all round seemed to way outweigh the tears. To see this sort of stuff making media headlines in papers on on T.V is a sad reflection of too many folk with nothing better to do.

ps. If Cameron charged the other two a teener apiece for his appearing in the picture, then yeah, boooooo.

[boltonboris]

Even so..

Funeral or not, they're there to pay respects to a dead man.

[mrkint]

brilliant/awful

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013 ... it-up-fake" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

compare and contrast

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/africa/950 ... la-service" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bobo the clown]

brilliant/awful

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013 ... it-up-fake" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

compare and contrast

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/africa/950 ... la-service" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brilliant.

I did think at the time that he was simply making it up. He reminded me of the taxi-driver guy who was brought onto a BBC News programme and accidentally interviewed.

Some scam though.

[Lord Kangana]

Well he's given them a voice. It's up to the people to use it.

Smartest thing written in the thread so far. It may seem such a long way from a perfect country, but its light years ahead of where it was.

[William the White]

Well he's given them a voice. It's up to the people to use it.

Smartest thing written in the thread so far. It may seem such a long way from a perfect country, but its light years ahead of where it was.

Yes, well said boris and LK... What was not possible is now possible... a people can make their world work, or not, or most likely, work in a flawed way...

In the context of the horrors of apartheid S Africa... A result.

[Hoboh]

Well he's given them a voice. It's up to the people to use it.

Smartest thing written in the thread so far. It may seem such a long way from a perfect country, but its light years ahead of where it was.

To jump from another thread, I predict it will be a shambles in the next 5-10 years and yet another point for 'overseas aid' or drones!

[LeverEnd]

A slightly pessimistic view. It's a messed up country for sure, I went there and was amazed by the proximity of slums and gated enclaves on the same road. Hardly surprising that the crime rate is high.
What I could see happening is widespread uprising and rioting fuelled by people's anger that the ANC has depressingly gone from a party which represented all black people to one which serves itself and the economic interests of a black elite.
I'd like to think the passing of Mandela will lead to a reevaluation and return to its stated principles of 20 years ago but I'm not holding my breath.

[bobo the clown]

Meanwhile, during the Johannesburg ceremony yesterday Desmond Tutu's Caoe Town home was burgled.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Has anyone ever encountered a white South African bloke who wasn't an opinionated racist nice person? Serious question!

[LeverEnd]

Has anyone ever encountered a white South African bloke who wasn't an opinionated racist tw*t? Serious question!

I spent some time there (in 2008) and met some great people who were not all all like that. I also met some very paranoid white people who were worried that every black person they didn't know was going to rob them and/or rape/murder them.
I have heard stories of London dwelling South Africans from a rugby-playing Afrikaner background who are very defensive and think everyone hates them and that they are put upon by the world's media and that we've all been taken in by the cult of Saint Mandela. It's a depressing mentality but white superiority complexes are not going to disappear overnight, and I think a lot of those who think that way have scarpered to London.

[LeverEnd]

What the feck were Cameron, the Danish bird and Obama doing taking a 'selfie' at a feckin funeral? Absolute weapons..

Sorry Boris, but, for me, all that's one massive storm in a teacup from reporters looking for sensation. It wasn't a funeral but a celebration of Mandela's death ( edit, make that his life) in a football stadium, with some seventy thousand folk dancing and singing everywhere. Had they done it whilst a blessing or prayer was being said in church I'd have totally agreed. As it is, can't understand the outrage? The smiles all round seemed to way outweigh the tears. To see this sort of stuff making media headlines in papers on on T.V is a sad reflection of too many folk with nothing better to do.

ps. If Cameron charged the other two a teener apiece for his appearing in the picture, then yeah, boooooo.

I think they should be sent on a Sensitivity Awareness Course led by Peter Herbert.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Has anyone ever encountered a white South African bloke who wasn't an opinionated racist tw*t? Serious question!

It strikes me as an odd question since it implies that all white South Africans are racist. I would not have thought you would engage in such generalizations. In any event I have known several whom I would not consider an opinionated racist tw*t. Let me quote from the bio of one whom I've known for some forty years, originally as a colleague but now in the investment business..

John brings to TBC Capital over fifty years of experience in a variety of fields, including law, politics, the academy and finance, in South Africa, Europe, the United States and Canada.

John came to Canada in 1966, joined the Department of Political Science at McGill University in Montreal in 1967 and taught there until 1996.

At Brockhouse Cooper from 1996 to 2010 he contributed to the establishment of its business in South Africa, participated in the forging of enduring business relationships in Japan and the United States, and met with a wide range of investment management firms from around the world.

John has been active in civil society since his university years. In 1960, he was President of the National Union of South African Students, a leading opposition movement against the policy of apartheid. In the early 1960s, he worked at the Co-ordinating Secretariat of the International Student Conference in Holland. Later he co-founded the Civil Liberties Action Committee in Montreal, the Quebec Council for Gifted Children and the Canadian Research Consortium on Southern Africa (CRCSA). He also served as an alderman in the City of Westmount, 1983-1987.

John received his early education at Kingswood College and Rhodes University in Grahamstown, South Africa, and studied law at the University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg. John holds MA and PhD degrees in International Relations from Yale University.

[thebish]

Has anyone ever encountered a white South African bloke who wasn't an opinionated racist tw*t? Serious question!

yeah - I have... but not many amongst those I have met...

there may be a reason for this...

most of the white south africans I have met are now living in the UK - and are kind-of self-selecting in that quite a number of them are immigrants fleeing what they saw as a tide turning against their previously apartheid-propped-up sense of entitlement and privilege.. so your experience (and to some extent mine) might very well be that we are meeting precisely the kind of people who would have such an opinion in the first place...

two I have met recently have been ministers in the church fleeing a changed south africa - and never waste an opportunity to moan and bitch about how hard it is for their sons to go back to south africa and instantly find well-paid jobs - "you have to be black to get a decent job in south africa now" they bitterly object...

i suspect that meeting white south africans actually IN south africa - those without the desire, means or opportunity to flee, you might be dealing with a fairer representative cross-sample...

(has your TW account been hacked? this kind of gross broad-brush emotional generalisation is not your usual style...)

either that - or you've been listening to old Not The Nine O'Clock News material...

[Zulus Thousand of em]

Has anyone ever encountered a white South African bloke who wasn't an opinionated racist tw*t? Serious question!

I've met plenty - and I continue to do so. Both in South Africa and here in the UK. I've also met some that are racist - but white South Africans don't have the monopoly on racism.

You already knew that.

[boltonboris]

I know 2 white South Africans. They both refer to black people as "the darkies".

Sound enough people if you want to talk barbecues and sport, but I wouldn't engage them in any serious debate.

My mums fella worked in South Africa for 7 years and although he remarked that NMs passing was "really sad", he doesn't speak too kindly of South African people in general or the country's policies

[Bruce Rioja]

Has anyone ever encountered a white South African bloke who wasn't an opinionated racist tw*t? Serious question!

No, never. And I used to work for a South African company and have encountered many.

[bobo the clown]

Has anyone ever encountered a white South African bloke who wasn't an opinionated racist tw*t? Serious question!

Obviously a massive generalisation, which it's intended to be, and of course there are going to be nice ones ... but I've just never met one, and I've met a goodly number.

Mind you, there are plenty of obnoxious non-white SA's too.

"Not the Nine-o-Clock News" felt moved to write this almost 30 years ago ;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v439zTOJVho" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[LeverEnd]

Has anyone ever encountered a white South African bloke who wasn't an opinionated racist tw*t? Serious question!

most of the white south africans I have met are now living in the UK - and are kind-of self-selecting in that quite a number of them are immigrants fleeing what they saw as a tide turning against their previously apartheid-propped-up sense of entitlement and privilege.. so your experience (and to some extent mine) might very well be that we are meeting precisely the kind of people who would have such an opinion in the first place...

This is what I was getting at. There is a lot of bitterness amongst the exiles I think. The ones who stayed did so for a reason.
Poor white South Africans may as well leave with all the 'affirmative action' (a term I hate)schemes in place.
It was always unlikely they could dismantle a system like apartheid without stepping on a few toes though.
You just have to look at what could have happened, or what did happen in Zimbabwe to know that things could be a whole lot worse. Ultimately though many people will look at what they have personally lost, not what the nation has gained.