WW1

[thebish]

this whole 100yr commemoration of WW1.. what do folk think?

personally, I think it would be much better to do summat (if we are gonna do summat) in 2018 - thus marking the END of the war not the start of it...

apparently we're getting new £2 coins with Kitchener on them saying "your country needs you"

also - Michael Gove is warning us not to get duped by those nasty war poets and people who were actually there into thinking that it was mostly a senseless waste of life on an industrial scale with countless hundreds of thousands of young lives thrown away by clueless toff generals.... etc...

[Hoboh]

this whole 100yr commemoration of WW1.. what do folk think?

personally, I think it would be much better to do summat (if we are gonna do summat) in 2018 - thus marking the END of the war not the start of it...
apparently we're getting new £2 coins with Kitchener on them saying "your country needs you"

also - Michael Gove is warning us not to get duped by those nasty war poets and people who were actually there into thinking that it was mostly a senseless waste of life on an industrial scale with countless hundreds of thousands of young lives thrown away by clueless toff generals.... etc...

For once we agree but I suppose if it's all a bit low key to mark the start of a tragedy fair play.
You surely cannot celebrate the start of something like that.

[Lord Kangana]

I hate the whole recent reinventing of WW1 as a just and good war. It was neither. It was a disgraceful, avoidable slaughter of a whole generation of our (as in ours, you now from our country) fellow countrymen.

Michael Gove comes across as a monumental bellend to be describing it as anything else. Along with a whole raft of historians wanting their mugs on the telly jumping on his bandwagon. I just wish he had to spend 5 minutes in a trench in 1916 and then come out with crap that our schoolkids should learn a different story. What different story? Over a million men (if you include the Commonwealth) died and countless millions more were horrifically injured for nothing. Only to come home to a country that didn't give a f*ck about them.

Michael Gove? Massive w*nker. Should be ashamed of himself. He won't be. W*nker.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I don't mind 'commemorating' the start of it. One of my relatives joined up in a pals brigade in 1914. I don't care how pointless we think that was - he thought it worthwhile, which to me is something to remember. Another relative took part in the Battle of the Somme on its first day - sod waiting till 2018 for that.

[thebish]

I don't mind 'commemorating' the start of it. One of my relatives joined up in a pals brigade in 1914. I don't care how pointless we think that was - he thought it worthwhile, which to me is something to remember. Another relative took part in the Battle of the Somme on its first day - sod waiting till 2018 for that.

will you be doing owt then?

[Harry Genshaw]

I'm sure many did think it was worthwhile a 100 years ago - they were swept up in a wave of misguided patriotism. Just that now we know it was a futile waste of millions of lives that had repercussions we're still living with today. Nowt worth celebrating or even commemorating for me. A service in 4 years time to commemorate the end would be more fitting

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I don't mind 'commemorating' the start of it. One of my relatives joined up in a pals brigade in 1914. I don't care how pointless we think that was - he thought it worthwhile, which to me is something to remember. Another relative took part in the Battle of the Somme on its first day - sod waiting till 2018 for that.

will you be doing owt then?

Me personally? No, nothing. Sod all. I don't celebrate my own birthday, why should I celebrate over a million dead. But, if the country feels it's worthwhile doing in 2018, it should also be worthile in 2014 and 2016 etc. That's my point.

[William the White]

In 1998 - marking the 80th anniversary of the end of the Great War - I had a play produced at the Octagon called Early One Morning. It told the story of Private James Smith of Bolton who was shot at dawn on Sept 4, 1917, for desertion on the eve of the cruel slaughter that was called the Battle of Passchendaele.

I met surviving members of his family still living in Bolton, and was able to take two of them to visit his grave just outside Ypres, and there they planted a miniature Lancashire rose. The day the pardons for the executed of that war - 306, if i remember correctly - came through I visited them, and we sat in their living room with a real Lancashire celebration - flat cake and strong tea.

I had been a profound sceptic about Remembrance, poppies etc until getting to grips with that play, learning about that war, those horrors, that gave me occasional nightmares for several months. I am a sceptic no longer. I observe the two minutes silence.

I read the war poets - such great poetry. And there you have the answer to such a creature as Gove. His despicable little screech will be lost forever. The poetry will echo through the centuries, telling the truth. The poets are dead - but all of them are more living than Gove ever will be.

[Bruce Rioja]

I read the war poets - such great poetry. And there you have the answer to such a creature as Gove. His despicable little screech will be lost forever. The poetry will echo through the centuries, telling the truth. The poets are dead - but all of them are more living than Gove ever will be.

I'm sorry - I'm missing the link here. Has Gove sent men into battle or something? And no, I'm no defender of Gove, I just can't see how you've forged this particular link.

[Lord Kangana]

The symbolism of men like Gove who would seek to glorify and sugar coat such a disastrous episode. Same ones we always have through history. I think that's the point.

[LeverEnd]

The symbolism of men like Gove who would seek to glorify and sugar coat such a disastrous episode. Same ones we always have through history. I think that's the point.

For the cynical political aim of getting the 'grass-roots Tories' on side for his future dash for the leadership.

[William the White]

I read the war poets - such great poetry. And there you have the answer to such a creature as Gove. His despicable little screech will be lost forever. The poetry will echo through the centuries, telling the truth. The poets are dead - but all of them are more living than Gove ever will be.

I'm sorry - I'm missing the link here. Has Gove sent men into battle or something? And no, I'm no defender of Gove, I just can't see how you've forged this particular link.

Gove has launched a campaign to see the war as a great, glorious and necessary national crusade... And taken ludicrously ill-informed swipes at historians with whom he disagrees... There is really no need to try and defeat him in argument - he is already defeated by dead poets.

http://www.warpoetry.co.uk/owen1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Bijou Bob]

Marking the end of the conflict would seem fitting to me. To be honest though, I do think that should be the end of the whole thing. No more Commemoration of what is now history beyond the memory of the living.

[Bruce Rioja]

I read the war poets - such great poetry. And there you have the answer to such a creature as Gove. His despicable little screech will be lost forever. The poetry will echo through the centuries, telling the truth. The poets are dead - but all of them are more living than Gove ever will be.

I'm sorry - I'm missing the link here. Has Gove sent men into battle or something? And no, I'm no defender of Gove, I just can't see how you've forged this particular link.

Gove has launched a campaign to see the war as a great, glorious and necessary national crusade... And taken ludicrously ill-informed swipes at historians with whom he disagrees... There is really no need to try and defeat him in argument - he is already defeated by dead poets.

http://www.warpoetry.co.uk/owen1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ah, I had no idea. I really couldn't work out what Harry Enfield's Tory Boy had to do in all of this. Thank you.

[thebish]

I don't mind 'commemorating' the start of it. One of my relatives joined up in a pals brigade in 1914. I don't care how pointless we think that was - he thought it worthwhile, which to me is something to remember. Another relative took part in the Battle of the Somme on its first day - sod waiting till 2018 for that.

will you be doing owt then?

Me personally? No, nothing. Sod all. I don't celebrate my own birthday, why should I celebrate over a million dead. But, if the country feels it's worthwhile doing in 2018, it should also be worthile in 2014 and 2016 etc. That's my point.

fair enough - why wait until 2018 to not do something when you can not do something this year!

[thebish]

[Lost Leopard Spot]

We, as a people/nation are quite shit at this commemoration lark. When I lived in Japan, in Kure a city close to Hiroshima, we went a couple of times to the anniversary of the bomb dropping. It was a simple affair; those who wanted to gather gathered, the assembled gathering would fall silent as the time of the explosion approached, then the names of the newly dead would be read.out (which were down to the tens by the era we attended) and the scroll containing the names would be replaced in its niche until another year passed, and everybody buggered off home. It has to be said that the first time we attended I expected some sort of resentment, though none was ever forthcoming.
I don't see why we (Us and the Bosch) don't go for a similar understated arrangement. If you want, for example, gather on the fields of the Somme on 1st July 2016 and somebody could read out the names. If you're going you might remember Arthur Moss (11th battalion Sherwood Foresters) and William Bennett (19th service battalion, Sherwood Foresters).

[thebish]

We are, as a people/nation are quite shit at this commemoration lark. When I lived in Japan, in Kure a city close to Hiroshima, we went a couple of times to the anniversary of the bomb dropping. It was a simple affair; those who wanted to gather gathered, the assembled gathering would fall silent as the time of the explosion approached, then the names of the newly dead would be read.out (which were down to the tens by the era we attended) and the scroll containing the names would be replaced in its niche until another year passed, and everybody buggered off home. It has to be said that the first time we attended I expected some sort of resentment, though none was ever forthcoming.
I don't see why we (Us and the Bosch) don't go for a similar understated arrangement. If you want, for example, gather on the fields of the Somme on 1st July 2016 and somebody could read out the names. If you're going you might remember Arthur Moss (11th battalion Sherwood Foresters) and William Bennett (19th service battalion, Sherwood Foresters).

go for it - there's nobody stopping you...

[thebish]

to make it all so much better and more palatable - the giant showpiece event is going to be held in Liverpool with giant marionettes paraded through the streets...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

We are, as a people/nation are quite shit at this commemoration lark. When I lived in Japan, in Kure a city close to Hiroshima, we went a couple of times to the anniversary of the bomb dropping. It was a simple affair; those who wanted to gather gathered, the assembled gathering would fall silent as the time of the explosion approached, then the names of the newly dead would be read.out (which were down to the tens by the era we attended) and the scroll containing the names would be replaced in its niche until another year passed, and everybody buggered off home. It has to be said that the first time we attended I expected some sort of resentment, though none was ever forthcoming.
I don't see why we (Us and the Bosch) don't go for a similar understated arrangement. If you want, for example, gather on the fields of the Somme on 1st July 2016 and somebody could read out the names. If you're going you might remember Arthur Moss (11th battalion Sherwood Foresters) and William Bennett (19th service battalion, Sherwood Foresters).

go for it - there's nobody stopping you...

I don't want to. I thought I'd made that singularly clear. I said if others want to, why not do it that way...