The wonderful EU and Migration thread!

[TANGODANCER]

I think you should read up a little of British history mate to see how we got that way. We didn't just arrive with a suitcase. The Industrial Revolution was a reality, not a story by Charles Dickens. All the Bronte sisters were dead before forty (Charlotte the longest living at 38, Anne at only 29) from tubercolosis/typhoid fever due to bad water conditions in Haworth, the Yorkshire village they lived in. This had nothing to do with wealth or position as neither did the thousands who died from black lung disease, asbestosis and living in the Potteries. Add two world wars that Britain was involved in, the last only some seventy years back and we haven't all arrived in a Bentley with a picnic basket. I take your points,mate, but let's not get carried too far away from reality. The country we live in didn't just happen.

Right and during the industrial revolution we benefitted from our Geography. Were the UK a riverless desert what do you think would have happened?

Cumbria wouldn't have got flooded out?

[Worthy4England]

You first have to get over the fact that you think "we" (we isn't even a thing, we're not a collective by anything other than accident) who happen to be born into relatively prosperous situations are somehow better than those who aren't. Or that it is ours to protect. It isn't.

Not having a " let's get BWFCi" morning, honest, but could you make that "some of"? My dad was a general labourer, then full-time soldier, came back from the war with all sorts of health problems and died at 52 still a labourer . My mother spent her working life in a cotton mill before suffering a nervous breakdown that lasted till she died. I left the house of my birth (two-up, two down terraced house) no bathroom, no fridge to get marrried at nineteen on an apprentices wage. Prosperous is stretching it a tad.

Relatively prosperous and comfortable and easy compared to large swathes of the population across the rest of the globe though.

I think you should read up a little of British history mate to see how we got that way. We didn't just arrive with a suitcase. The Industrial Revolution was a reality, not a story by Charles Dickens. All the Bronte sisters were dead before forty (Charlotte the longest living at 38, Anne at only 29) from tubercolosis/typhoid fever due to bad water conditions in Haworth, the Yorkshire village they lived in. This had nothing to do with wealth or position as neither did the thousands who died from black lung disease, asbestosis and living in the Potteries. Add two world wars that Britain was involved in, the last only some seventy years back and we haven't all arrived in a Bentley with a picnic basket. I take your points,mate, but let's not get carried too far away from reality. The country we live in didn't just happen.

Average life expectancy in South Sudan in 1960 - so 140 years or so after the Bronte's were born was 31 and a bit.

No one would deny things were way tougher for our parents and grand-parents than us, but it's still comparative - if we're not getting carried away from reality.

[bedwetter2]

Just to be absolutely clear, Indians whether Hindu or Sikh are high educational achievers whereas Pakistani and Bangladeshi children occupy the bottom rung of the qualification table. If the UK is to be a successful nation we need more qualified entrants to the world of work rather than deadbeats with a questionable attitude. I have no problem with any race provided they are prepared to be loyal, hard-working citizens. In fact one of my friends is Welsh.

And that statement there has all the hallmarks of a raving racist I'm afraid.

Wild and unsubstantiated claims that are generalised across nationalities in a fairly lazy way.

Then followed up with "but I'm not racist, look at my friends...."

Are you a teacher in a school with a high muslim density? My best friend was a headteacher in just such an establishment. My daughter-in-law is a deputy head in such an academy not very far from Bolton.
Have you ever worked in a muslim dominated country? I have. In three separate countries, two in North Africa, one in the middle east.

You don't have a clue.

[bobo the clown]

You could have saved a lot of typing & just gone for that final line.

[BWFC_Insane]

Just to be absolutely clear, Indians whether Hindu or Sikh are high educational achievers whereas Pakistani and Bangladeshi children occupy the bottom rung of the qualification table. If the UK is to be a successful nation we need more qualified entrants to the world of work rather than deadbeats with a questionable attitude. I have no problem with any race provided they are prepared to be loyal, hard-working citizens. In fact one of my friends is Welsh.

And that statement there has all the hallmarks of a raving racist I'm afraid.

Wild and unsubstantiated claims that are generalised across nationalities in a fairly lazy way.

Then followed up with "but I'm not racist, look at my friends...."

Are you a teacher in a school with a high muslim density? My best friend was a headteacher in just such an establishment. My daughter-in-law is a deputy head in such an academy not very far from Bolton.
Have you ever worked in a muslim dominated country? I have. In three separate countries, two in North Africa, one in the middle east.

You don't have a clue.

Your statement said that "...Pakistani and Bangladeshi children occupy the bottom rung of the qualification table"

Fine. Prove it. I want you to provide me the data that shows every single Pakistani and Bangladeshi child occupies the bottom rung of the educational ladder. That is what you've said, you've also said I don't have a clue, so I'm now asking you to prove your statement.

And lets be very specific here. You've not talked trends or averages, you've been very specific. So prove what you've said or accept your comments were wide of the mark.

[bedwetter2]

Just to be absolutely clear, Indians whether Hindu or Sikh are high educational achievers whereas Pakistani and Bangladeshi children occupy the bottom rung of the qualification table. If the UK is to be a successful nation we need more qualified entrants to the world of work rather than deadbeats with a questionable attitude. I have no problem with any race provided they are prepared to be loyal, hard-working citizens. In fact one of my friends is Welsh.

And that statement there has all the hallmarks of a raving racist I'm afraid.

Wild and unsubstantiated claims that are generalised across nationalities in a fairly lazy way.

Then followed up with "but I'm not racist, look at my friends...."

Are you a teacher in a school with a high muslim density? My best friend was a headteacher in just such an establishment. My daughter-in-law is a deputy head in such an academy not very far from Bolton.
Have you ever worked in a muslim dominated country? I have. In three separate countries, two in North Africa, one in the middle east.

You don't have a clue.

Your statement said that "...Pakistani and Bangladeshi children occupy the bottom rung of the qualification table"

Fine. Prove it. I want you to provide me the data that shows every single Pakistani and Bangladeshi child occupies the bottom rung of the educational ladder. That is what you've said, you've also said I don't have a clue, so I'm now asking you to prove your statement.

And lets be very specific here. You've not talked trends or averages, you've been very specific. So prove what you've said or accept your comments were wide of the mark.

You're a knob so I won't be discussing anything further with you. Look it up, there has been enough research by educationalists, or don't bother. Stay on your own planet where every non-British person is a victim of terrible injustices.

[BWFC_Insane]

Just to be absolutely clear, Indians whether Hindu or Sikh are high educational achievers whereas Pakistani and Bangladeshi children occupy the bottom rung of the qualification table. If the UK is to be a successful nation we need more qualified entrants to the world of work rather than deadbeats with a questionable attitude. I have no problem with any race provided they are prepared to be loyal, hard-working citizens. In fact one of my friends is Welsh.

And that statement there has all the hallmarks of a raving racist I'm afraid.

Wild and unsubstantiated claims that are generalised across nationalities in a fairly lazy way.

Then followed up with "but I'm not racist, look at my friends...."

Are you a teacher in a school with a high muslim density? My best friend was a headteacher in just such an establishment. My daughter-in-law is a deputy head in such an academy not very far from Bolton.
Have you ever worked in a muslim dominated country? I have. In three separate countries, two in North Africa, one in the middle east.

You don't have a clue.

Your statement said that "...Pakistani and Bangladeshi children occupy the bottom rung of the qualification table"

Fine. Prove it. I want you to provide me the data that shows every single Pakistani and Bangladeshi child occupies the bottom rung of the educational ladder. That is what you've said, you've also said I don't have a clue, so I'm now asking you to prove your statement.

And lets be very specific here. You've not talked trends or averages, you've been very specific. So prove what you've said or accept your comments were wide of the mark.

You're a knob so I won't be discussing anything further with you. Look it up, there has been enough research by educationalists, or don't bother. Stay on your own planet where every non-British person is a victim of terrible injustices.

So you've made a statement that you can't back up?

A higher percentage of "British Pakistani's" go to University than those classed as "white British". Whilst their attainment rates of 1st and 2nd class degrees aren't as good they do better attainment wise than Black African and Black Caribbean ethnic minorities in this country for example...

If you'd said "on average British Pakistani students perform worse than those from an Indian background" that would have been accurate. It also though would be accurate for White British students too. If you'd talked about percentages of British Pakistanis without any qualification being slightly higher than White British students that would be accurate. Or if you'd mentioned that those identifying as "White Irish travellers" perform worst on most measures that would have been more accurate.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I believe the sentence in question didn't state British Pakistanis or Bangladeshis, so you may wish to clarify that before chucking around racism accusations. You're accusing someone of being a racist, which is hardly a good basis to discuss something.

Play nice

[BWFC_Insane]

I believe the sentence in question didn't state British Pakistanis or Bangladeshis, so you may wish to clarify that before chucking around racism accusations. You're accusing someone of being a racist, which is hardly a good basis to discuss something.

Play nice

Well, he followed it up with anecdotal information regarding UK schools......

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I believe the sentence in question didn't state British Pakistanis or Bangladeshis, so you may wish to clarify that before chucking around racism accusations. You're accusing someone of being a racist, which is hardly a good basis to discuss something.

Play nice

Well, he followed it up with anecdotal information regarding UK schools......

Sorry, I'm having computer problems and I've lost a fairly lengthy post in response - thanks Microsoft I'll try and get a bit of time and will power to try again later

[Enoch]

Sorry, I'm having computer problems

Oh yeah, it's always the computer!

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Sorry, I'm having computer problems

Oh yeah, it's always the computer!

It nearly got thrown at the wall yesterday. 7 times it died in the middle of stuff

[TANGODANCER]

Sorry, I'm having computer problems

Oh yeah, it's always the computer!

It nearly got thrown at the wall yesterday. 7 times it died in the middle of stuff

Anything of any length gets done and saved on Word first. You know it makes sense...

[Enoch]

Sorry, I'm having computer problems

Oh yeah, it's always the computer!

It nearly got thrown at the wall yesterday. 7 times it died in the middle of stuff

Probably full of sand.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Anything of any length gets done and saved on Word first. You know it makes sense...

Not when you're coding, unless you don't want the code to work

Probably full of sand

The sand is outside

[Hoboh]

EU refugee crisis: closed-door countries could be asked to help cover costs

European commission proposes ‘solidarity contributions’ by states that do not take in refugees, to support those that do

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/m ... tributions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How long after an 'in' vote before we find our 'opt out' withdrawn or pressure to pay “a solidarity contribution” of €250,000 (£198,000) per asylum applicant.

Oh fcuking woe!

As well as publishing the proposals for reforming EU asylum rules, the commission will signal its approval for the lifting of visa restrictions on 79 million Turks. Granting Turks visa-free access to the EU’s Schengen zone was a crucial part of the deal the EU struck with Ankara to reduce migrant flows.

[Worthy4England]

EU refugee crisis: closed-door countries could be asked to help cover costs

European commission proposes ‘solidarity contributions’ by states that do not take in refugees, to support those that do

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/m ... tributions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How long after an 'in' vote before we find our 'opt out' withdrawn or pressure to pay “a solidarity contribution” of €250,000 (£198,000) per asylum applicant.

Oh fcuking woe!

As well as publishing the proposals for reforming EU asylum rules, the commission will signal its approval for the lifting of visa restrictions on 79 million Turks. Granting Turks visa-free access to the EU’s Schengen zone was a crucial part of the deal the EU struck with Ankara to reduce migrant flows.

We're not part of the Schengen zone. And look - elected people would need to vote for it - as in ...

However, EU governments and the European parliament, which have the final say over approval, could reject the move

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/m ... l-schengen" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You also seemed to have skipped over this quote from the original article...

The UK can choose whether or not to take part in the new EU asylum system

Surprised you missed that - you're normally such a detail buff.

[thebish]

<cough>project fear</cough>

[Hoboh]

I'm surprised you missed the bit I said about the demolition of our various 'opt outs' once Brussels decides we are 'fair game for changes' if we vote to remain, after all a vote to remain will be read by our dubious friends across the continent as the Brits love the EU and they will push and push, get a soft arse in like Corbyn or one of Blair's former toadies and we will be royally shafted.
Don't believe they are a dubious bunch and Europhiles tossers? look what happened last time and no doubt is still being conspired on behind closed doors. This from the FT.

Britain will come under renewed pressure on Monday to compromise over the future of the rebate on its contributions to the European Union as the price of a deal on the EU budget.

EU foreign ministers meet in Brussels on Monday for their first formal discussion of finances since negotiations collapsed in acrimony in June. Britain expects to be told that unless it offers concessions on its £3bn rebate, it will have to give up hope of agreeing a budget during its six-month European presidency, which ends at the end of this year.

The prime minister’s allies know that any movement on the rebate, secured by Margaret Thatcher 21 years ago, would expose him to a ferocious attack by the Conservatives at a time when his authority is already being tested by his own backbenchers.
Whitehall insiders acknowledge that a budget deal now looks increasingly unlikely.

One option currently being floated in Brussels would allow Britain to preserve the rebate, but increase the contributions it makes into EU coffers.
A senior EU official said: “The Brits have three options. They can refuse to move on the rebate, in which case they will pull the negotiation down. They can agree to a change in the rebate, or they can find some way of paying more into the EU budget while leaving the rebate unchanged.”

The compromise plan could see the UK giving the EU a bigger proportion of its VAT receipts, customs duties or levies on imports of agricultural produce.

The official added that such a concession could be attractive to Mr Blair “because the rebate, with all its symbolism, would remain unchanged and yet Britain would be fair to the new EU member states”.

Mrs Thatcher won the rebate at the Fontainebleau summit in 1984 because at the time the UK was relatively poor and received little from EU spending programmes skewed towards farm support.

All 24 of Britain’s EU partners would like to scrap the rebate, arguing that the country is much richer than it was two decades ago.

EU motto "Shaft supposed success"

Yeah, tell that to all the EU protected unemployed Brits on low wages and zero hour contracts because of their export of unskilled, cheap labour! (and you can count beggars and Romanian sex workers in as well)

Not in Schengen, don't worry we soon will be

Businesses pushing for the UK to join the Schengen visa system which allows entry to 26 European countries are “wasting their time”, the Immigration Minister, Mark Harper, has warned.

Wasting their time? I doubt it same business who want the free movement, the pressure is being applied by the multi-corp's and large companies, the pay masters of the Cons, we already have Labours pay masters the Unions backing EU policy even at the expense of their lower paid members.

[Hoboh]

<cough>project fear</cough>

Yep, I was 'afraid' you'd roll up with that old chesnut.

NOT!