Muslims, racists, individuals and attitudes.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Trevor Phillips (if you don't know, don't ask) says

...it is disrespectful to suppose Muslim communities would change [ in this country] ... Continuously pretending that a group is somehow going to become like the rest of us is perhaps the deepest form of disrespect, because what you are essentially saying is the fact they behave in a different way, some of which we may not like, is because they haven't yet seen the light. It may be that they see the world differently from the rest of us

Substitute Muslim for racist.
Discuss.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

And as I see nobody's willing to contribute, our Trev is hardly Plato.
However if anybody wants to launch in, as the OP let me give you a tickbox of categories you can attack me with ( if that's your bag, and you're prepared to discuss the actual underlying dilemma here).
Am I:
Muslim - no
Racist- no
Religious - no
Buddhist - yes
An atheist - yes
An Islamophobe - yes

[TANGODANCER]

And as I see nobody's willing to contribute, our Trev is hardly Plato.
However if anybody wants to launch in, as the OP let me give you a tickbox of categories you can attack me with ( if that's your bag, and you're prepared to discuss the actual underlying dilemma here).
Am I:
Muslim - no.....................................No
Racist- no......................................No
Religious - no.................................Yes.
An atheist - yes..............................No
An Islamophobe - yes

...........Yes

Not doing brilliantly yet Spots but we have some agreement..... .That said, the underlying dilemna is far too complex to be resolved by any discussion here for many reasons. I live in an area with a lot of Asians (I use the term because I don't know for sure if they are all Muslim or no, although I suspect most are) and in general they seem to be equally divided between decent "hail fellow well met " types, those who keep themselves much to themselves, and an odd few arrogant a-holes, much like the rest of Farnworth to be honest. It would be foolish to claim some racism doesn't exist beneath the surface, it undoubtedly does, but we haven't ever had any openly aggressive incidents for many years. I live very near to several schools and a church also, and it is apparent that our society is a totally multi-cultural one these days both in race and religion. My neighbours on one side are Polish and there are several Asian families nearby. With my happy-go-lucky personality, my dog and I just breeze through it all regardless.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

You see Tango, I think you've had a look at what he's posted and taken your own view on what is and is not acceptable and then extrapolated to what you think the most extreme viewpoint would be and accepted that.

BUT, if you take his exact words in the opening post and substitute Muslim with these 'communities' I defy you or anybody to tell me there is a reasonable point where a line can be drawn, but we all have a line and that line depends on which community you identify with. So it just happens that Trev's widely reported remarks turn out to be bollox. So why were they widely reported?

So here we go:
Muslim
Christian
Roman Catholic
Rastafarian
Scottish
Pastafarian
Redneck
Racist
Serial Killer
Paedophile

[Montreal Wanderer]

And as I see nobody's willing to contribute, our Trev is hardly Plato.
However if anybody wants to launch in, as the OP let me give you a tickbox of categories you can attack me with ( if that's your bag, and you're prepared to discuss the actual underlying dilemma here).
Am I:
Muslim - no
Racist- no
Religious - no
Buddhist - yes
An atheist - yes
An Islamophobe - yes

I'm confused. Is not Buddhism a religion, albeit a non-theist one?

[BWFC_Insane]

Firstly some of the things on that list from LLS are actually illegal. And therefore I think rather unfair to replace them in the sentence from TP.

Whenever anyone talks about "integration" I usually get worried about what they actually mean. Because most Muslims I know are perfectly integrated into our society, as individual people. I think where it gets very difficult is where customs, behaviours and beliefs are ascribed to a religion or a group of people, especially in reference to "integration".

There is a huge variety of beliefs and opinions across this forum. That is the same within the Muslim "community". They are a set of individuals. Many I know actually crave Western ideals, customs and behaviours but often find it difficult to see how they can fit in.

Are British people who own "English bars" in Spain, don't speak Spanish, mainly attract an English clientele and mainly associate with English people "integrated". And what does being integrated mean?

[Enoch]

And as I see nobody's willing to contribute, our Trev is hardly Plato.
However if anybody wants to launch in, as the OP let me give you a tickbox of categories you can attack me with ( if that's your bag, and you're prepared to discuss the actual underlying dilemma here).
Am I:
Muslim - no
Racist- no
God botherer - no
Buddhist - yes
An atheist - yes
An Islamophobe - yes

I'm confused. Is not Buddhism a religion, albeit a non-theist one?

How's that Monty?

[Lord Kangana]

What the f*ck is this thread even on about?

[Bruce Rioja]

What the f*ck is this thread even on about?

Acid flashbacks is my guess.

[thebish]

What the f*ck is this thread even on about?

Acid flashbacks is my guess.

I think it might be the recently observed fact that Hoboh has his own thread where he talks to himself - and a certain amout of jealousy has arisen... I may be wrong, though...

[Hoboh]

What the f*ck is this thread even on about?

Acid flashbacks is my guess.

I think it might be the recently observed fact that Hoboh has his own thread where he talks to himself - and a certain amout of jealousy has arisen... I may be wrong, though...

Ahhh, but you read it

[thebish]

I wait on your every word, Hoboh!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

What the f*ck is this thread even on about?

It's on about a statement made by Trevor Phillips that was on the front page of The Times. It was stating that Muslims are a special case, which I think is easily demonstrable to be bollox. The only reason why it featured on a front page is because of everybody's walking around Muslims like they are on eggshells.
And to BWFCi, just because some on the list are illegal doesn't invalidate my point, it actually makes it stronger.
And to thebish - if you have no opinion on it fair enough, but you usually do. Have an opinion.

[Lord Kangana]

I think the first mistake you made was reading the Times.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

And as I see nobody's willing to contribute, our Trev is hardly Plato.
However if anybody wants to launch in, as the OP let me give you a tickbox of categories you can attack me with ( if that's your bag, and you're prepared to discuss the actual underlying dilemma here).
Am I:
Muslim - no
Racist- no
Religious - no
Buddhist - yes
An atheist - yes
An Islamophobe - yes

I'm confused. Is not Buddhism a religion, albeit a non-theist one?

Not necessarily, there can be religious Buddhists and non-religious Buddhists. Some sects, like Tibetan Buddhism can only be religious, others like Chan and Zen are open to a non-religious interpretation, a philosophy if you like. They are minus the theistic angle, they do not necessarily address the problem of the univers but merely the individual's place in it, without moral guidlines and devoid of ritual.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I think the first mistake you made was reading the Times.

I do it everyday. I'm a very mistaken individual.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

What the f*ck is this thread even on about?

Acid flashbacks is my guess.

I get those less and less.

[Il Pirate]

The only reason why it featured on a front page is because of everybody's walking around Muslims like they are on eggshells.


Why are muslims stood on eggshells ?.....

[BWFC_Insane]

What the f*ck is this thread even on about?

It's on about a statement made by Trevor Phillips that was on the front page of The Times. It was stating that Muslims are a special case, which I think is easily demonstrable to be bollox. The only reason why it featured on a front page is because of everybody's walking around Muslims like they are on eggshells.
And to BWFCi, just because some on the list are illegal doesn't invalidate my point, it actually makes it stronger.
And to thebish - if you have no opinion on it fair enough, but you usually do. Have an opinion.

Is he saying they're a special case though? I think he's saying some Muslims may see the world in a different light to you or I? But what is so wrong about that?

[Bruce Rioja]

Why are muslims stood on eggshells ?.....

Because they've just had some Sunni side up?