Muslims, racists, individuals and attitudes.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

So one pickup drifting into a town with a few armed men was enough to overwhelm the Iraqi security forces who merely legged it?


Simple thing to do would be to make any travel to Syria, illegal, with long jail sentences except if on a mission from HMG security services.

Well, from what I read they didn't put up any fight. But presumably before the yanks or ourselves decided to get back involved they'd already got the Iraqis running the other way.

I've no problem with Parliament creating a law then prosecuting on the basis of it. I do have a problem just chucking people in jail without them breaking a law or the right to a fair trial.

[Montreal Wanderer]

So one pickup drifting into a town with a few armed men was enough to overwhelm the Iraqi security forces who merely legged it?


Simple thing to do would be to make any travel to Syria, illegal, with long jail sentences except if on a mission from HMG security services.

Well, from what I read they didn't put up any fight. But presumably before the yanks or ourselves decided to get back involved they'd already got the Iraqis running the other way.

I've no problem with Parliament creating a law then prosecuting on the basis of it. I do have a problem just chucking people in jail without them breaking a law or the right to a fair trial.

I think there is a problem with Parliament creating a law and then prosecuting people who had violated it before it had been passed, as has been know to happen.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

So one pickup drifting into a town with a few armed men was enough to overwhelm the Iraqi security forces who merely legged it?


Simple thing to do would be to make any travel to Syria, illegal, with long jail sentences except if on a mission from HMG security services.

Well, from what I read they didn't put up any fight. But presumably before the yanks or ourselves decided to get back involved they'd already got the Iraqis running the other way.

I've no problem with Parliament creating a law then prosecuting on the basis of it. I do have a problem just chucking people in jail without them breaking a law or the right to a fair trial.

I think there is a problem with Parliament creating a law and then prosecuting people who had violated it before it had been passed, as has been know to happen.

It wouldn't be the first time and I definitely wouldn't put it past the current lot.

[Prufrock]

You'd need a very good argument to get that past the ECtHR. The bastards.

[Prufrock]

You'd also need a v good argument to get a blanket ban on travel to Syria past them too.

Which is good, what with it being mental.

[Hoboh]

You'd also need a v good argument to get a blanket ban on travel to Syria past them too.

Which is good, what with it being mental.

I really do wonder about your sanity sometimes, if you are worried about aid workers there can be dispensations with proper background checks to make sure they genuine and not pals of Choudry taking public money to fund the bastards.

[Hoboh]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/m ... ocid=edgsp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Interesting.

Personally, I think all this burka business is a little OTT, if they are required to remove them by security concerns or if individual shops/leisure centres etc. require ,they not be worn just like motorcycle crash helmets, then I see no problem.

[Bijou Bob]

I witnessed an interesting 'discussion' between a Lufthansa check in clerk and a lady in a Burkha a few weeks ago. The check in staff wouldn't let her board without matching her face to her passport photograph, which seems fair to me. It didn't appear to seem fair to the male members of her family or to the lady herself.

Lufthansa won.

[TANGODANCER]

I witnessed an interesting 'discussion' between a Lufthansa check in clerk and a lady in a Burkha a few weeks ago. The check in staff wouldn't let her board without matching her face to her passport photograph, which seems fair to me. It didn't appear to seem fair to the male members of her family or to the lady herself.

Lufthansa won.

They pretty much had to, or a new giant can of worms would have been opened.

[bobo the clown]

I witnessed an interesting 'discussion' between a Lufthansa check in clerk and a lady in a Burkha a few weeks ago. The check in staff wouldn't let her board without matching her face to her passport photograph, which seems fair to me. It didn't appear to seem fair to the male members of her family or to the lady herself.

Lufthansa won.

In that she "revealed" or she didn't board ?

There was a phase when fear of being accused of being racist had people passing through, I watched that on a flight to Brussels maybe 5 or 6 years ago


Stories also (I can't corroborate) that some were allowed to use a burka photo as passport ID.

I can't easily reconcile to the full body & face jobbies. Thankfully I've never had to deal with it professionally.

[boltonboris]

It does clearly state in the Qu'ran that women are not allowed to show their faces "even in the event of Airport security"

[Bruce Rioja]

I thought that there's a room set aside in airports for exactly this purpose.

[Bijou Bob]

Lufthansa offered a private room, but they were too busy arguing about their 'rights' to listen. I believe the Q'uran mentions hair and not the face. Hair should not be seen by anyone other than men that the woman cannot marry ie Father, brother, Uncle etc. The veil is a cultural, rather than religious requirement.

The woman involved removed her veil so that they could check her identity. It took less than 10 seconds and no one else could see apart from one nosey tourist walking backwards towards the plane..... cough.....

[Montreal Wanderer]

In May I was in Frankfort airport when two Burka clad ladies came running flat out down the concourse pushing perambulators. Somewhat amused at the incongruous sight, I turned to mention it to my wife but she wasn't there. I subsequently found her behind a pillar. I guess she is more aware of certain possibilities than I was, who naively assumed (correctly in the event) that they were simply in a hurry.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Lufthansa offered a private room, but they were too busy arguing about their 'rights' to listen. I believe the Q'uran mentions hair and not the face. Hair should not be seen by anyone other than men that the woman cannot marry ie Father, brother, Uncle etc. The veil is a cultural, rather than religious requirement.

The woman involved removed her veil so that they could check her identity. It took less than 10 seconds and no one else could see apart from one nosey tourist walking backwards towards the plane..... cough.....

As far as I can tell, BB, the Qur'an says really nothing about the matter. Everything seems to be subsequent interpretation of one specific verse (which only referred to Mohammed's wives in any case).

"You who Believe, do not enter the prophet's apartments for a meal unless you are given permission to do so; do not linger until [a meal] is ready. When you are invited, go in; then, when you have taken your meal, leave. Do not stay on and talk, for that would offend the prophet, though he would shrink from asking you to leave. Allah does not shrink from the truth. When you ask his wives for something, do so from behind a barrier: that is purer for your hearts and theirs. It is not right for you to offend Allah's messenger, just as you should never marry his wives after him: that would be grievous in Allah's eyes. Allah has full knowledge of all things, whether you reveal them or not." (Qur'an 33:53-54)

http://www.quranicpath.com/finerpoints/33_53_niqab.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Subsequent interpretations can be found here.

Disclaimer: this said I am no expert and have to take the internet's word for this.

[boltonboris]

Lufthansa offered a private room, but they were too busy arguing about their 'rights' to listen. I believe the Q'uran mentions hair and not the face. Hair should not be seen by anyone other than men that the woman cannot marry ie Father, brother, Uncle etc. The veil is a cultural, rather than religious requirement.

The woman involved removed her veil so that they could check her identity. It took less than 10 seconds and no one else could see apart from one nosey tourist walking backwards towards the plane..... cough.....

I know, I was only joking.. Not sure Airports were that big a thing when they wrote it

[Montreal Wanderer]

Lufthansa offered a private room, but they were too busy arguing about their 'rights' to listen. I believe the Q'uran mentions hair and not the face. Hair should not be seen by anyone other than men that the woman cannot marry ie Father, brother, Uncle etc. The veil is a cultural, rather than religious requirement.

The woman involved removed her veil so that they could check her identity. It took less than 10 seconds and no one else could see apart from one nosey tourist walking backwards towards the plane..... cough.....

I know, I was only joking.. Not sure Airports were that big a thing when they wrote it

Not sure about this. I thought the Hegira describes Mohammed's flight from Mecca to Medina.

[Prufrock]

In May I was in Frankfort airport when two Burka clad ladies came running flat out down the concourse pushing perambulators. Somewhat amused at the incongruous sight, I turned to mention it to my wife but she wasn't there. I subsequently found her behind a pillar. I guess she is more aware of certain possibilities than I was, who naively assumed (correctly in the event) that they were simply in a hurry.

[Prufrock]

Lufthansa offered a private room, but they were too busy arguing about their 'rights' to listen. I believe the Q'uran mentions hair and not the face. Hair should not be seen by anyone other than men that the woman cannot marry ie Father, brother, Uncle etc. The veil is a cultural, rather than religious requirement.

The woman involved removed her veil so that they could check her identity. It took less than 10 seconds and no one else could see apart from one nosey tourist walking backwards towards the plane..... cough.....

I know, I was only joking.. Not sure Airports were that big a thing when they wrote it

Not sure about this. I thought the Hegira describes Mohammed's flight from Mecca to Medina.

Welcome to today's return flight to Jerusalem where our horse will be travelling at a cruising altitude of 40,000 ft.

[Bijou Bob]

In respect of the verse you provided Monty, thanks, that's quite enlightening. One of my female Muslim colleagues referred to a passage in the Q'uran which requires 'modesty' of women and she felt that the Hijab was a sign of her devotion and modesty. She wore it for the first 18 months in the job and then one day arrived at work without it. She looked entirely different. Sadly, she was then abused by an Asian male colleague who didn't like her "immodesty".

As an aside, I believe the Torah refers to those of the Jewish faith not wearing clothes made from different materials. I presume that it's not widely followed?!