Muslims, racists, individuals and attitudes.

[Prufrock]

It's one of the many batshit mental bits of Leviticus (Torah and Bible).

[Montreal Wanderer]

In respect of the verse you provided Monty, thanks, that's quite enlightening. One of my female Muslim colleagues referred to a passage in the Q'uran which requires 'modesty' of women and she felt that the Hijab was a sign of her devotion and modesty. She wore it for the first 18 months in the job and then one day arrived at work without it. She looked entirely different. Sadly, she was then abused by an Asian male colleague who didn't like her "immodesty".

As an aside, I believe the Torah refers to those of the Jewish faith not wearing clothes made from different materials. I presume that it's not widely followed?!

The word hijab is used quite a bit in the Qur'an. It means 'barrier' in our sense and is always used in this sense, never referring to an article of clothing. There is a verse that requires modesty of both men and women in identical wording. This simply says to keep one's eyes lowered modestly and to cover one's private parts to maintain purity. Only subsequent interpretations have suggested this refers to women's faces or hair - but not of course to males.

I know a little more about the Torah and this refers to shatnez, a mixture of linen and wool 9specifically sheep's wool). It doesn't mention synthetics. So you are probably okay with most modern fabrics.

[bobo the clown]

Lufthansa offered a private room, but they were too busy arguing about their 'rights' to listen. I believe the Q'uran mentions hair and not the face. Hair should not be seen by anyone other than men that the woman cannot marry ie Father, brother, Uncle etc. The veil is a cultural, rather than religious requirement.

The woman involved removed her veil so that they could check her identity. It took less than 10 seconds and no one else could see apart from one nosey tourist walking backwards towards the plane..... cough.....

Welcome to today's return flight to Jerusalem where our horse will be travelling at a cruising altitude of 40,000 ft.

Not on a Friday it won't be.

[bobo the clown]

The woman involved removed her veil so that they could check her identity. It took less than 10 seconds and no one else could see apart from one nosey tourist walking backwards towards the plane..... cough.....

Well ... come on ... was she fit ??

[Prufrock]

In respect of the verse you provided Monty, thanks, that's quite enlightening. One of my female Muslim colleagues referred to a passage in the Q'uran which requires 'modesty' of women and she felt that the Hijab was a sign of her devotion and modesty. She wore it for the first 18 months in the job and then one day arrived at work without it. She looked entirely different. Sadly, she was then abused by an Asian male colleague who didn't like her "immodesty".

As an aside, I believe the Torah refers to those of the Jewish faith not wearing clothes made from different materials. I presume that it's not widely followed?!

The word hijab is used quite a bit in the Qur'an. It means 'barrier' in our sense and is always used in this sense, never referring to an article of clothing. There is a verse that requires modesty of both men and women in identical wording. This simply says to keep one's eyes lowered modestly and to cover one's private parts to maintain purity. Only subsequent interpretations have suggested this refers to women's faces or hair - but not of course to males.

I know a little more about the Torah and this refers to shatnez, a mixture of linen and wool 9specifically sheep's wool). It doesn't mention synthetics. So you are probably okay with most modern fabrics.

From memory there are two bits in the penta-whatsit about mixing cloth. One is a v precise wool/linen thing (sounds like what you're referring to) but I think the Leviticus one is a general material mixing thing.

[thebish]

In respect of the verse you provided Monty, thanks, that's quite enlightening. One of my female Muslim colleagues referred to a passage in the Q'uran which requires 'modesty' of women and she felt that the Hijab was a sign of her devotion and modesty. She wore it for the first 18 months in the job and then one day arrived at work without it. She looked entirely different. Sadly, she was then abused by an Asian male colleague who didn't like her "immodesty".

As an aside, I believe the Torah refers to those of the Jewish faith not wearing clothes made from different materials. I presume that it's not widely followed?!

The word hijab is used quite a bit in the Qur'an. It means 'barrier' in our sense and is always used in this sense, never referring to an article of clothing. There is a verse that requires modesty of both men and women in identical wording. This simply says to keep one's eyes lowered modestly and to cover one's private parts to maintain purity. Only subsequent interpretations have suggested this refers to women's faces or hair - but not of course to males.

I know a little more about the Torah and this refers to shatnez, a mixture of linen and wool 9specifically sheep's wool). It doesn't mention synthetics. So you are probably okay with most modern fabrics.

From memory there are two bits in the penta-whatsit about mixing cloth. One is a v precise wool/linen thing (sounds like what you're referring to) but I think the Leviticus one is a general material mixing thing.

it's probably referring to linen and wool.

from my memory, this was not a "moral" law - that would be a misunderstanding of how judaism worked back then... this was a ceremonial "law". I think the idea was about "setting apart" - and the chose to do that through dress. A priest was the only one allowed to wear mixed-fabric cloth - it was in the design of the robes. Whilst it is not exactly the same, the closest we'd have to this kind of idea would be the offense of impersonating a policeman.

now - one way to describe this would be to say it was "batshit crazy"... another way would be to accept that it was the way that a particular culture a long time ago in a very different world chose to order its society and cultural life...

[Bijou Bob]

The woman involved removed her veil so that they could check her identity. It took less than 10 seconds and no one else could see apart from one nosey tourist walking backwards towards the plane..... cough.....

Well ... come on ... was she fit ??

Well I would. I'm not sure that's an accurate guide, but I'm reasonably fussy. Ish.

[Prufrock]

In respect of the verse you provided Monty, thanks, that's quite enlightening. One of my female Muslim colleagues referred to a passage in the Q'uran which requires 'modesty' of women and she felt that the Hijab was a sign of her devotion and modesty. She wore it for the first 18 months in the job and then one day arrived at work without it. She looked entirely different. Sadly, she was then abused by an Asian male colleague who didn't like her "immodesty".

As an aside, I believe the Torah refers to those of the Jewish faith not wearing clothes made from different materials. I presume that it's not widely followed?!

The word hijab is used quite a bit in the Qur'an. It means 'barrier' in our sense and is always used in this sense, never referring to an article of clothing. There is a verse that requires modesty of both men and women in identical wording. This simply says to keep one's eyes lowered modestly and to cover one's private parts to maintain purity. Only subsequent interpretations have suggested this refers to women's faces or hair - but not of course to males.

I know a little more about the Torah and this refers to shatnez, a mixture of linen and wool 9specifically sheep's wool). It doesn't mention synthetics. So you are probably okay with most modern fabrics.

From memory there are two bits in the penta-whatsit about mixing cloth. One is a v precise wool/linen thing (sounds like what you're referring to) but I think the Leviticus one is a general material mixing thing.

it's probably referring to linen and wool.

from my memory, this was not a "moral" law - that would be a misunderstanding of how judaism worked back then... this was a ceremonial "law". I think the idea was about "setting apart" - and the chose to do that through dress. A priest was the only one allowed to wear mixed-fabric cloth - it was in the design of the robes. Whilst it is not exactly the same, the closest we'd have to this kind of idea would be the offense of impersonating a policeman.

now - one way to describe this would be to say it was "batshit crazy"... another way would be to accept that it was the way that a particular culture a long time ago in a very different world chose to order its society and cultural life...

The other one, specifically about types of wool I'm happy to take your word for (I don't know it's context) but not the Leviticus one. The verses just before are about not stealing, lying, defrauding etc... and just after it's the punishment for sleeping with a female slave promised to another man (not death, thankfully, because she hasn't been freed, so that's good!). The context sounds a lot like it's a moral law to me. I'm happy with calling Leviticus batshit mental!

[Montreal Wanderer]

The other one, specifically about types of wool I'm happy to take your word for (I don't know it's context) but not the Leviticus one. The verses just before are about not stealing, lying, defrauding etc... and just after it's the punishment for sleeping with a female slave promised to another man (not death, thankfully, because she hasn't been freed, so that's good!). The context sounds a lot like it's a moral law to me. I'm happy with calling Leviticus batshit mental!

It is from the Talmud, not Torah. For example see Mishnah-tractate Kilayim 9: D-F where you can mix 'wool' with linen if it is more than 50% camel hair. Basically the prohibition is on 50%+ of sheep's wool, but camel and goat wool are okay.

[thebish]

I'm happy with calling Leviticus batshit mental!

as is your prerogative...

I think I'll hold off on such a definitive judgement, being as it was a very long time ago and a very different time and world...

there are several theories - the priestly distinction being one I remember, and the idea of outlawing the perceived "sympathetic magic" of surrounding cultures - mixing different categories to promote fertility in some vague way...

my guess is that it made sense in some way to their understanding of culture and society back then - just cos they lived a long time ago doesn't mean they were daft... so - I'm happy to give them the benefit of the doubt which stems from my lack of knowledge about the lives they led... as is my prerogative...

[Dujon]

Interesting, thebish. There's information in these two references, the first of which appears to indicate that the priests of the day were not to wear wool when undertaking their duties. Interpretations, translations . . . bah! It's all so confusing.

◄ Ezekiel 44:17 ►
http://biblehub.com/ezekiel/44-17.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

◄ Wool ►
http://biblehub.com/topical/w/wool.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Enoch]

It's all so confusing.

You ain't kidding!

Is it Q'uran, Qur'an, Quran, Koran?

I know a few birds would do well to cover up.

Sadly they're all Christians.

[thebish]

It's all so confusing.

You ain't kidding!

Is it Q'uran, Qur'an, Quran, Koran?

I know a few birds would do well to cover up.

Sadly they're all Christians.

they could become nuns...

[Enoch]

It's all so confusing.

You ain't kidding!

Is it Q'uran, Qur'an, Quran, Koran?

I know a few birds would do well to cover up.

Sadly they're all Christians.

they could become nuns...

Fair point.

I hear God loves a sinner!

[Hoboh]

In respect of the verse you provided Monty, thanks, that's quite enlightening. One of my female Muslim colleagues referred to a passage in the Q'uran which requires 'modesty' of women and she felt that the Hijab was a sign of her devotion and modesty. She wore it for the first 18 months in the job and then one day arrived at work without it. She looked entirely different. Sadly, she was then abused by an Asian male colleague who didn't like her "immodesty".

As an aside, I believe the Torah refers to those of the Jewish faith not wearing clothes made from different materials. I presume that it's not widely followed?!

I hope one of you quietly chinned him.

[Bijou Bob]

Feck no, he was the equalities team leader and a serial allegation maker.

[Hoboh]

Feck no, he was the equalities team leader and a serial allegation maker.

Best way around those types is everyone else starting to make complaints allegations about them, they soon get moved on.

[Bijou Bob]

He went missing around 5 hours per day, " Working in the community" with no tangible output. No one dared challenge him, even when it was rumoured he was actually working in a garage during those hours. Apparently, it's a measure of equality and diversity to tolerate and understand his cultural needs.

[bobo the clown]

Feck no, he was the equalities team leader and a serial allegation maker.

Best way around those types is everyone else starting to make complaints allegations about them, they soon get moved on.

In the NHS ? You're joking.

Their HR teams, are worse than those Bruce has to deal with.

[Bijou Bob]

I think I've mentioned on here before my experience working for Bolton Council some years ago when I found one of the blokes working for me was absenting himself and spending 4 hours a day in the bookies. I was told to leave him to get on with it as he only had a few years to retirement and as he wasn't white, it would look like it was me that had the issue. 3 months later I had an Asian female working on my team who would sleep at her desk. Not a short doze at lunch time, oh no. A full on, head down, snoring session 2 or 3 times a day. Again, it looked like I "had a problem with ethnic minority employees". the fact that her father was a prominent local individual had nothing to do with it of course. My boss' fear was tangible. As was said to me at the time, "You only get your head shot off if you raise it above the parapet".