Brexit or Britin

[Hoboh]

Can one of you explain this rounding on Jeremy Corbyn please? What's he done so wrong? He doesn't strike me as having had a hidden agenda - quite the opposite in fact. I see that Cameron's chucked his oar in now. What the feck has it to do with him? This isn't a matter of national importance at all.

Agreed. I keep hearing he's unelectable but in each by election under him Labour have increased their share of the vote. Perhaps he was slowly bringing the electorate round to him? The thing is, despite all the overwhelming support he has amongst the membership those with the loudest voices have it in for him. He'll do well to get past this weekend

We keep talking about the membership and democracy. Are the Labour MP's (or any other parties MP's for that matter) there to be at the behest of 121,000 reasonably organised left wingers (Corbyn's first round vote) or to use their judgement on behalf of the 9.3m voters that voted for them? The electorate voted for their MP, a party and its manifesto and if the people they voted for don't believe that their leader can do a decent job in opposition around those broad manifesto directives, then I think they're bob on to oust him.

9.3 million voters don't matter in the case of democracy in this case, it is a matter for labour members, sure it would be foolish to ignore them but the election of leader is down to the members.
IMO if the MP's don't like the decision of the party members they should stand down and put in for re-election under a new party banner, there won't be many of these 'principled' people doing that I'd guess, nice work if you can get it.

[clapton is god]

What he "started off with" is neither hither nor yon. It's what he ended up with. Why's he so 'unelectable'? You knew exactly what you were getting. This is my question - why's he now being rounded on?

Chilcot is due out and the Blairites want JC out of the way pronto.

[Lord Kangana]

I see that odious cretin Gove has crawled back out from under his rock and thrown his hat in the ring for the Tory leadership.

I f*cking hope those eligible to vote in this one consider very carefully what it is they're doing. I can only really see Theresa May as the candidate who isn't going to stick a ruddy great crowbar into the rift developing across this country.

Thoroughly depressed that after dragging itself up off its knees since 2008, the country has willingly put itself back there.

[Hoboh]

What he "started off with" is neither hither nor yon. It's what he ended up with. Why's he so 'unelectable'? You knew exactly what you were getting. This is my question - why's he now being rounded on?

Hammer, Nail!

The labour party took a deliberate lurch to the left after Brown with the 'wrong' Milliband, they knew what they were doing, they then lost another election and lurched further left thinking they hadn't been left enough, the MP's at some stage were all party to this via rule changes etc. and if they weren't happy to drift along, they kept quiet so as not to hit their bank balance.
So they knew the score, why whinge now and not before?
Charlatans.

[Little Green Man]

I see that odious cretin Gove has crawled back out from under his rock and thrown his hat in the ring for the Tory leadership.

And states that Boris isn't leadership material. Did his wife tell him to say that?

[Hoboh]

I see that odious cretin Gove has crawled back out from under his rock and thrown his hat in the ring for the Tory leadership.

I f*cking hope those eligible to vote in this one consider very carefully what it is they're doing. I can only really see Theresa May as the candidate who isn't going to stick a ruddy great crowbar into the rift developing across this country.

Thoroughly depressed that after dragging itself up off its knees since 2008, the country has willingly put itself back there.

Ferries leave the ports everyday mate!

No one makes you live in such a depressing country with people who have the 'cheek' not to vote the same as you.

[BWFC_Insane]

I see that odious cretin Gove has crawled back out from under his rock and thrown his hat in the ring for the Tory leadership.

I f*cking hope those eligible to vote in this one consider very carefully what it is they're doing. I can only really see Theresa May as the candidate who isn't going to stick a ruddy great crowbar into the rift developing across this country.

Thoroughly depressed that after dragging itself up off its knees since 2008, the country has willingly put itself back there.

Ferries leave the ports everyday mate!

No one makes you live in such a depressing country with people who have the 'cheek' not to vote the same as you.

Why didn't you just fcuk off then instead of moaning for the past decade?

[BWFC_Insane]

The Tory party is every bit as divided as Labour. Get a proper mentalist like Gove or Boris in as leader and like Labour I could see a split of sorts coming.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I see that odious cretin Gove has crawled back out from under his rock and thrown his hat in the ring for the Tory leadership.

And states that Boris isn't leadership material. Did his wife Murdoch tell him to say that?

[Hoboh]

I see that odious cretin Gove has crawled back out from under his rock and thrown his hat in the ring for the Tory leadership.

I f*cking hope those eligible to vote in this one consider very carefully what it is they're doing. I can only really see Theresa May as the candidate who isn't going to stick a ruddy great crowbar into the rift developing across this country.

Thoroughly depressed that after dragging itself up off its knees since 2008, the country has willingly put itself back there.

Ferries leave the ports everyday mate!

No one makes you live in such a depressing country with people who have the 'cheek' not to vote the same as you.

Why didn't you just fcuk off then instead of moaning for the past decade?

You know you really are an odious nice person!
Watch totally different games from most people.
Post utter fcuking crap on football matters.
Live on twitter looking for tweets from whichever of your pundits is flavour of the month.
Pretend to be a caring sharing fcuking leftie who is a dummy spitter like all of 'um when you cannot have your own way.
You have a neck as long as a giraffe calling me for moaning, the word drama Queen was tailor made for you.
If you 'feel the pain' of a none socialist government and not having your European luvies tucking you in, get plenty Paracetamol in, you'll need it.
Oh and just as an after thought, this forum was a far better place when you fcuked off for a while and most of the shit disappeared.
Can you not do it again?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

A little unnecessary Hoboh. I'd advise against using Farage's little book of diplomacy in future

[Lord Kangana]

Wow. Why don't you just threaten to come round his house too?

[Worthy4England]

Can one of you explain this rounding on Jeremy Corbyn please? What's he done so wrong? He doesn't strike me as having had a hidden agenda - quite the opposite in fact. I see that Cameron's chucked his oar in now. What the feck has it to do with him? This isn't a matter of national importance at all.

Agreed. I keep hearing he's unelectable but in each by election under him Labour have increased their share of the vote. Perhaps he was slowly bringing the electorate round to him? The thing is, despite all the overwhelming support he has amongst the membership those with the loudest voices have it in for him. He'll do well to get past this weekend

We keep talking about the membership and democracy. Are the Labour MP's (or any other parties MP's for that matter) there to be at the behest of 121,000 reasonably organised left wingers (Corbyn's first round vote) or to use their judgement on behalf of the 9.3m voters that voted for them? The electorate voted for their MP, a party and its manifesto and if the people they voted for don't believe that their leader can do a decent job in opposition around those broad manifesto directives, then I think they're bob on to oust him.

9.3 million voters don't matter in the case of democracy in this case, it is a matter for labour members, sure it would be foolish to ignore them but the election of leader is down to the members.
IMO if the MP's don't like the decision of the party members they should stand down and put in for re-election under a new party banner, there won't be many of these 'principled' people doing that I'd guess, nice work if you can get it.

I'm glad 9.3m people don't matter - I thought everyone deserved a voice - make yer fcking mind up.

MP's are elected on the basis on their party manifesto. Corbyn's efforts for "Remain" were nothing short of woeful. No Leadership, No conviction. The Labour manifesto - the thing on which he (as well as all the other MP's got elected) clearly said Labour's view was to remain. I think the PLP have every right to say he didn't represent the people who voted Labour adequately enough. So I think they are legitimately exercising a democratic opinion.

That said - you are also correct - the Labour party membership who voted him in are the ones that get the vote. I suspect unless a compromise is reached there will be a split. Both sides seem a long way from compromise (both expressing their democratic rights )

[Little Green Man]

Could someone explain the logic behind this data? This attitude really baffles me - it's literally having your cake and eating it too

Xenophobia

[BWFC_Insane]

I see that odious cretin Gove has crawled back out from under his rock and thrown his hat in the ring for the Tory leadership.

I f*cking hope those eligible to vote in this one consider very carefully what it is they're doing. I can only really see Theresa May as the candidate who isn't going to stick a ruddy great crowbar into the rift developing across this country.

Thoroughly depressed that after dragging itself up off its knees since 2008, the country has willingly put itself back there.

Ferries leave the ports everyday mate!

No one makes you live in such a depressing country with people who have the 'cheek' not to vote the same as you.

Why didn't you just fcuk off then instead of moaning for the past decade?

You know you really are an odious tw*t!
Watch totally different games from most people.
Post utter fcuking crap on football matters.
Live on twitter looking for tweets from whichever of your pundits is flavour of the month.
Pretend to be a caring sharing fcuking leftie who is a dummy spitter like all of 'um when you cannot have your own way.
You have a neck as long as a giraffe calling me for moaning, the word drama Queen was tailor made for you.
If you 'feel the pain' of a none socialist government and not having your European luvies tucking you in, get plenty Paracetamol in, you'll need it.
Oh and just as an after thought, this forum was a far better place when you fcuked off for a while and most of the shit disappeared.
Can you not do it again?

Answer the question. Why, didn't you take your own advice and leave the country on a ferry when for the past decade you've had little good to say about it's politics and how it was being run?

LK expressed his depression at Gove potentially becoming PM. Your advice to him was "if you don't like it leave".

I'm asking, quite reasonably why you've stayed for the past decade in a country where you've had very little good to say about it's politics or leaders, considering you're now, telling anyone who has any reservations at all, to "leave".

[Worthy4England]

Can one of you explain this rounding on Jeremy Corbyn please? What's he done so wrong? He doesn't strike me as having had a hidden agenda - quite the opposite in fact. I see that Cameron's chucked his oar in now. What the feck has it to do with him? This isn't a matter of national importance at all.

Supposedly there is evidence he deliberately tried to hijack the remain campaign as he wanted to leave.

If there isn't he certainly didn't try very hard.

He's an absolutely shit leader hell bent on revenge on the centre and centre left wings of the party.

Was a bit odd for Cameron to say that, but then again I think even Tories want some sort of effective opposition and Labour under Corbyn can't provide that.

OK, but he was elected by an overwhelming majority. For what it's worth, and although I don't agree with 8most of his politics, I have Corbyn down as being a resolute and morally upstanding bloke who's always put his cards on the table and told it as he sees it. I have incredible admiration for the guy. I just can't understand how a bunch of folk who so staunchly backed him in the leadership campaign can now turn on him like they have. Much of it is actually objectionable and borders on personal abuse. I honestly think that the guy deserves much better treatment that he's currently getting, especially from those who supported him very recently.

Some of that's not quite true. The PLP nominate the candidates (so sitting MP's/MEP's), Corbyn was bottom of that list and only got in because some MP's wanted to "broaden the debate" in a theoretical sense so "lent him" their nomination in a "let's all be fluffy" Labour spirit. So he started off with 15% PLP support not overwhelming support.

What he "started off with" is neither hither nor yon. It's what he ended up with. Why's he so 'unelectable'? You knew exactly what you were getting. This is my question - why's he now being rounded on?

Let me try and have a go at this one

I didn't know what I was getting, because I'm not a Labour Party member. I am generally more inclined to vote for Labour, have one occasion voted for someone to get their deposit back , never voted Tory and sometimes have just submitted a blank vote because I've believed none of them were worth my "X". Last time out, I voted Labour. I expect that they stick broadly to their manifesto pledges in Government or in Opposition - Labour's policy was to remain in the EU. Me and 9.3m other people voted for them with this being one of their policies. Corbyn's representation of this manifesto pledge was shit (from where I sat). Angela Eagle tried (there was no doubt which side she was on in the debate) but was still shit. I would as someone who gave them my vote want the MP I voted for to get rid of Corbyn on that basis.

Oh and I nearly forgot - he has a fcuking beard! FFS.

[Worthy4England]

I see that odious cretin Gove has crawled back out from under his rock and thrown his hat in the ring for the Tory leadership.

And states that Boris isn't leadership material. Did his wife Murdoch tell him to say that?

I posted this up a couple of pages ago - it's the e-mail from Vine to Gove.

Very important that we focus on the individual obstacles and thoroughly overcome them before moving to the next. I really think Michael needs to have a Henry or a Beth (Mr Gove's media advisers, also copied into the email) with him for this morning's crucial meetings.

"One simple message: You MUST have SPECIFIC assurances from Boris OTHERWISE you cannot guarantee your support. The details can be worked out later on, but without that you have no leverage.

"Crucially, the membership will not have the necessary reassurance to back Boris, neither will (Daily Mail editor Paul) Dacre/(Rupert) Murdoch, who instinctively dislike Boris but trust your ability enough to support a Boris Gove ticket.

"Do not concede any ground. Be your stubborn best.

"GOOD LUCK."

How fcking chilling is that? Hoboh reckons Leave have won a great victory for democracy and here's the Tory Election campaign being discussed in terms of whether Paul Dacre and Rupert Murdoch are going to support the candidate.

Always good to see unelected people carrying such power.

Bizarrely Sky News reporting of this highlighted two sections of this short e-mail, but not the one referencing Murdoch - how remiss of them.

[Hoboh]

Wow. Why don't you just threaten to come round his house too?

Why would I do that?

I'd sooner sit at home and watch the 'real Cheshire house wives' or whatever than admire framed tweets of Iles!

[Hoboh]

I see that odious cretin Gove has crawled back out from under his rock and thrown his hat in the ring for the Tory leadership.

And states that Boris isn't leadership material. Did his wife Murdoch tell him to say that?

I posted this up a couple of pages ago - it's the e-mail from Vine to Gove.

Very important that we focus on the individual obstacles and thoroughly overcome them before moving to the next. I really think Michael needs to have a Henry or a Beth (Mr Gove's media advisers, also copied into the email) with him for this morning's crucial meetings.

"One simple message: You MUST have SPECIFIC assurances from Boris OTHERWISE you cannot guarantee your support. The details can be worked out later on, but without that you have no leverage.

"Crucially, the membership will not have the necessary reassurance to back Boris, neither will (Daily Mail editor Paul) Dacre/(Rupert) Murdoch, who instinctively dislike Boris but trust your ability enough to support a Boris Gove ticket.

"Do not concede any ground. Be your stubborn best.

"GOOD LUCK."

How fcking chilling is that? Hoboh reckons Leave have won a great victory for democracy and here's the Tory Election campaign being discussed in terms of whether Paul Dacre and Rupert Murdoch are going to support the candidate.

Always good to see unelected people carrying such power.

Bizarrely Sky News reporting of this highlighted two sections of this short e-mail, but not the one referencing Murdoch - how remiss of them.

Leave and Murdoch's puppets are two different things, it's not exclusive to the Tories either, I seem to recall Blair rushing off to fawn over him.

[Worthy4England]

I see that odious cretin Gove has crawled back out from under his rock and thrown his hat in the ring for the Tory leadership.

And states that Boris isn't leadership material. Did his wife Murdoch tell him to say that?

I posted this up a couple of pages ago - it's the e-mail from Vine to Gove.

Very important that we focus on the individual obstacles and thoroughly overcome them before moving to the next. I really think Michael needs to have a Henry or a Beth (Mr Gove's media advisers, also copied into the email) with him for this morning's crucial meetings.

"One simple message: You MUST have SPECIFIC assurances from Boris OTHERWISE you cannot guarantee your support. The details can be worked out later on, but without that you have no leverage.

"Crucially, the membership will not have the necessary reassurance to back Boris, neither will (Daily Mail editor Paul) Dacre/(Rupert) Murdoch, who instinctively dislike Boris but trust your ability enough to support a Boris Gove ticket.

"Do not concede any ground. Be your stubborn best.

"GOOD LUCK."

How fcking chilling is that? Hoboh reckons Leave have won a great victory for democracy and here's the Tory Election campaign being discussed in terms of whether Paul Dacre and Rupert Murdoch are going to support the candidate.

Always good to see unelected people carrying such power.

Bizarrely Sky News reporting of this highlighted two sections of this short e-mail, but not the one referencing Murdoch - how remiss of them.

Leave and Murdoch's puppets are two different things, it's not exclusive to the Tories either, I seem to recall Blair rushing off to fawn over him.

Part of your contention for Leave was that big businesses have too much power, there were unelected political elites - well here's two of 'em trying to determine who's going to lead the country. You should be apopleptic.