Brexit or Britin

[Worthy4England]

And I'll be amazed if Boris Johnson isn't on the Remain payroll - What better than a bumbling idiot who has suddenly turned into an Islamaphobe to devalue a campaign..

Very clever - Very sinister too

Standing by this

Help me out - I'm not sure I get it. At the start he was allegedly "can't make his mind up" - I think he's good at hoovering up getting votes - from that perspective, I'd have rather he'd been lying on behalf of remain than lying on behalf of leave.

Not sure how him "leading" Brexit - helps the cause of "Remain"?

gives them a back-up - If they win, great.. If they lose, it's ok.. The guy we put will feck it up so badly, we end up staying in anyway

It's looking increasingly likely that we'll stay in in my opinion.

I genuinely don't see that at the moment - with a couple of provisos (and in fairness the Remainer's kept raising these) -

1) The plan for what "out" looks like - so I think we will leave the EU, but then there's the Trade Deal - that might be anywhere between full free trade agreement in the EEA that still encompasses free movement to not really a free trade agreement that has no free movement - no one actually described that bit as "this is the leave point of view" - we heard about the Norway model, the Swiss model, the Canada model etc. So fcuk knows what that'll pan out like. We will have some sort of Trade Agreement with Europe even if it's just WTO. The nature of the trade agreement wasn't actually voted on. So if we end up with Free Trade and Free Movement - we could do that and still have left the EU - I suspect that'd pi$$ a few folks off.

2) There is some interesting (if you like that sort of thing) legal discussions going on around whether the UK Government (under UK Law) can actually leave - so nowt to do with EU law. I suspect this is stuff n nonsense, but I could conceive of some legal challenges by maybe some individuals/businesses along the way - I would probably put a strain on the NHS having a heart attack laughing if UK Sovereign law somehow prevented it - that'd be too funny for words, but you'd probably hear me laughing from your gaff.

Neither of those two things really have anything directly to do with Boris...

[BWFC_Insane]

May was a remain person.

So she wins the Tory leadership and then what? Will she carry on with the exit plan or try to renegotiate, or push for EEA and accept freedom of movement terms?

Interesting situation given that it looks like the leave campaign won't be in actual power.

[Prufrock]

Michael Gove my arse.

Somehow got a reputation as an intellectual heavyweight, "oh, Gove, very bright". This is the mon who said that the British people have had enough of experts and that all schools should be above average. Not in a slip of the tongue, but as actual policy!

[Worthy4England]

May was a remain person.

So she wins the Tory leadership and then what? Will she carry on with the exit plan or try to renegotiate, or push for EEA and accept freedom of movement terms?

Interesting situation given that it looks like the leave campaign won't be in actual power.

I think she said unequivocally in her announcement to run, that out meant out. She did sneak in there that there should be no decision to invoke Art 50 before "the end of the year" - Clearly they want to try and get to a position where at the next General Election, they can still blame the British people and EU for any fcuk ups along the way. I'm not at all sure they won't call a snap GE if they can get enough of what "out" looks like quickly enough. Then again. I think they're shit scared of UKIP and LibDem taking seats off them...

Wouldn't another hung parliament be really good for wriggling out of decisions?

[Worthy4England]

So, let me get this straight... the leader of the opposition campaigned to stay but secretly wanted to leave, so his party held a non-binding vote to shame him into resigning so someone else could lead the campaign to ignore the result of the non-binding referendum which many people now think was just angry people trying to shame politicians into seeing they'd all done nothing to help them.

Meanwhile, the man who campaigned to leave because he hoped losing would help him win the leadership of his party, accidentally won and ruined any chance of leading because the man who thought he couldn't lose, did - but resigned before actually doing the thing the vote had been about. The man who'd always thought he'd lead next, campaigned so badly that everyone thought he was lying when he said the economy would crash - and he was, but it did, but he's not resigned, but, like the man who lost and the man who won, also now can't become leader. Which means the woman who quietly campaigned to stay but always said she wanted to leave is likely to become leader instead.

Which means she holds the same view as the leader of the opposition but for opposite reasons, but her party's view of this view is the opposite of the opposition's. And the opposition aren't yet opposing anything because the leader isn't listening to his party, who aren't listening to the country, who aren't listening to experts or possibly paying that much attention at all. However, none of their opponents actually want to be the one to do the thing that the vote was about, so there's not yet anything actually on the table to oppose anyway. And if no one ever does do the thing that most people asked them to do, it will be undemocratic and if any one ever does do it, it will be awful.
Clear?

I found this rather amusing.

https://www.facebook.com/benjaminblaine ... nref=story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Prufrock]

You're too kind. There is a screenshot of the transcript online somewhere. He said that it was the govts policy for all schools to become "good" schools. He was later asked what the govt definition of a "good" school was and he said where pupil performance exceeded the national average.

He was asked how he thought that possible. "By getting better all the time"!!

[Lord Kangana]

Hopefully he doesn't get to spend five years proving it!

[Bijou Bob]

Dear Labour MP's, please stop referencing Hitler in your speeches. Feck me, how much did they pay for that and other gems?

More to the point, how inept do you have to be not to back up one of your own colleagues who's been racially abused by one of your supporters in a meeting in which you're announcing your new anti racism strategy?!

[Worthy4England]

Dear Labour MP's, please stop referencing Hitler in your speeches. Feck me, how much did they pay for that and other gems?

More to the point, how inept do you have to be not to back up one of your own colleagues who's been racially abused by one of your supporters in a meeting in which you're announcing your new anti racism strategy?!

I've listened as carefully as I could for the racial abuse comment - I genuinely can't hear it - do you know what was said?

He did mention Hitler - as far as I can tell - but to say that people should stop using such references (and those of Nazism) in metaphors and comparisons between different human rights abuses?

I'm not great fan of Mr Corbyn as you may have spotted, but what exactly has he done?

[Lord Kangana]

I think what she said was that she didn't think the Labour Party was inherently racist.

Is that really a shock to anyone? It's not something I'm either shocked or angered by. Certainly judging by recent events, it's pretty unimportant.

[Worthy4England]

Having now looked it up and heard it, it was a strange one. Clearly a reference to the fact she was Jewish and therefore supported (or supported by) the "Jewish press". Dick head. Corbyn can't have failed to have heard it, but you would have to have understood the links racists make to a "Jewish owned" media. Must admit, I wouldn't have got it.

[Winter Hill White]

The trolley "pound" isn't designed to stop you stealing the trolley it is merely incentive to return your trolley to a trolley bay rather than just dumping it any old place in the car park that you feel like.

It's a bit of both. Trollies cost a surprising amount to manufacture, and supermarkets lose a not insignificant bit of cash to them being nicked each year. As I said above it's costing them enough that they're actually looking into using technology like GPS enabled wheel locks and locators.

Right, but if I nick a trolley I have trolley and my pound.....so I'm up on the deal!

With apologies for the ten page lapse in response time. The block of flats where I live has a set of its own "corporate branded" shopping trolleys. There is also an arrangement with the supermarket 100 yards down the road that we can take their trolleys back home with us. Perhaps I'm easily pleased, but there is something very indulgent about pushing your trolley straight from the checkout to your kitchen without faffing with bags and then transferring your pint of semi-skilled directly from trolley to fridge door. And not a pound coin or GPS sticky wheels in sight.

[Worthy4England]

^^ Given the conversation about how the quid in trolleys worked with Brucie, you can do "GPS sticky wheels".

[Hoboh]

The new Slovakian EU presidency has held out a slim hope of overcoming last week’s Brexit vote, with the country’s foreign minister saying he respected the result but would support any measure that helped reverse it.

Speaking a day after the US secretary of state, John Kerry, suggested that the Brexit result could be “walked back”, Slovakia’s foreign minister, Miroslav Lajčák, appeared to nudge the door open further.

At a press conference in Bratislava, he said: “I would support any measure that will help reverse the position of the British people, which we have to respect but also regret. I deeply regret it – an EU with a UK is a better EU – but it’s in the hands of the British people and politicians.”

Slovakia will take up the rotating EU presidency, which gives it responsibility for the legislature’s functioning for six months, on 1 July. After that it will pass on to Malta.

Poland’s foreign minister, Witold Waszczykowski, has also expressed hopes of a way being found to keep Britain within the EU, but the prospect appears remote in the face of political developments in the UK and collective statements from EU leaders.

Nicolas Sarkozy, now the frontrunner in the polls to be the candidate of the French right in next year’s presidential elections, has said he wants to hold Britain’s hand tighter because he believes in its presence in Europe. He said he would propose a Europe-wide referendum in 2017, including on new measures and border controls.

Sarkozy wants a Schengen 2 in which freedom of movement is restricted to an inner group of countries capable of securing their borders. Such a recalibration of free movement would be unpopular elsewhere in Europe but might mesh with reforms sought by a future British government.

Germany’s former chancellor Helmut Kohl has also urged the EU not to apply too much pressure on the UK and to give the country time to think through its next move. The man who was one of the driving forces behind European integration in the 1990s said slamming the door on Britain would be an “enormous mistake”.

Kohl, who oversaw the reunification of Germany and the introduction of the euro, is calling for Europe to “take a breather” and take “one step back before taking two steps forward” at a pace that is manageable for all member states, according to an interview in Bild.

The newspaper said that instead of taking steps towards further centralisation and “mistaking a unified Europe with a standardised Europe”, Kohl wanted European leaders to pay more respect to national and regional differences.

Britain’s special status in the EU had always been difficult and challenging but should be understood as being rooted in the country’s history, Kohl was quoted as saying, adding: “It is also part of Europe’s variety.”

The way more and more influential people in the EU are coming out with statements, I'd be very surprised if some of the out spoken gravy train riders don't get shuffled off soon.
Apparently many of the former Eastern block countries are blaming Juncker for the current predicament and want him gone.
I hope we can get suitable reform of the EU that will sort out this mess, one in that we can trade together and move on from a federalist union.
Unbelievably, from me anyway Sarkozy seems to see the 'right way'.

[Hoboh]

May was a remain person.

So she wins the Tory leadership and then what? Will she carry on with the exit plan or try to renegotiate, or push for EEA and accept freedom of movement terms?

Interesting situation given that it looks like the leave campaign won't be in actual power.

Marginally, she was a 'lukewarm' Remainer at best. I still think Gove might snatch it. He served as chief whip so I can see him using that knowledge to successfully get support.

Michael Gove my arse.

Somehow got a reputation as an intellectual heavyweight, "oh, Gove, very bright". This is the mon who said that the British people have had enough of experts and that all schools should be above average. Not in a slip of the tongue, but as actual policy!

I hope not either. Anyone who dismisses expert opinion, people who are likely smarter than you are with the necessary expertise, is a complete moron. It's why you visit a doctor when you're ill, and don't crowdsource a diagnosis and treatment cycle on mumsnet. I'm still in disbelief that he somehow convinced significant sections of the country to ignore them. And before Hoboh says anything, I acknowledge that there are other reasons people voted Leave.

Regarding his above average statement, it is ridiculous; but to play devil's advocate he may have been trying to (poorly) suggest that our schools should be higher in quality than the average for the Western/developed world rather than nationally which is of course nonsensical. What was the full context?

I've calmed down.

[bobo the clown]

^^ Not to excuse the terrible phrasing used by Gove about "above average" but if everything we ever said was filmed, recorded or printed we'd all be able to sound stupid rather often. I mean, there was a guy on here once said the Referendum was pointless as there was simply no way there'd actually be significant support for "leave" and that without an above 10% poll lead then inertia would always win. I think his most recent erudite statement on the matter was "oh bugger".

What Gove INTENDED to say was that he wanted every school to aim to be above the average. Which, Shirley, is a sound philosophy.

Now. Gove in general, another matter entirely.

[Lord Kangana]

Having seen the benefits that France reaped from Sarkozy first hand, I shudder at the thought.

However, there has to be a moving forward position. As it stands, we have to leave the EU before we can renegotiate our position. Lets be clear, the uncertainty over that would produce an economic disaster. I have no f*cking idea where we go from here, but it will have to involve Europe in some form.

Kohl is right from a European perspective. I hope we can find someone on our side with the magnanimity to approach this sensibly. Which means keeping that f*cking fascist balloon Farage a million miles away whilst the adults are talking.

[Bijou Bob]

Having seen the benefits that France reaped from Sarkozy first hand, I shudder at the thought.

However, there has to be a moving forward position. As it stands, we have to leave the EU before we can renegotiate our position. Lets be clear, the uncertainty over that would produce an economic disaster. I have no f*cking idea where we go from here, but it will have to involve Europe in some form.

Kohl is right from a European perspective. I hope we can find someone on our side with the magnanimity to approach this sensibly. Which means keeping that f*cking fascist balloon Farage a million miles away whilst the adults are talking.

I'm really not sure it would prompt an economic disaster. The sulking Remain press, The Graun in particular, are full of doom laden statements about economic meltdown, but the ftse is rising, the pound is stabilising and I rather suspect it will be the countries remaining in the EU who slide further into recession. Time will tell, but doom mongering guesswork isn't helping.

[Lord Kangana]

The pound is stabilising at a much lower level, so come on lets not chat shit, it doesn't help the discussion move along.

And part of the reason we're restabilising is because the rhetoric from the leave camp has been reconciliatory. The leading figure in leave even admitted we'd need to have acess to the EEA. As I say, adult discussion has resumed rather than posters of escalators on the cliffs of Dover holding sway. Lets not put it back there.

[Worthy4England]

Having seen the benefits that France reaped from Sarkozy first hand, I shudder at the thought.

However, there has to be a moving forward position. As it stands, we have to leave the EU before we can renegotiate our position. Lets be clear, the uncertainty over that would produce an economic disaster. I have no f*cking idea where we go from here, but it will have to involve Europe in some form.

Kohl is right from a European perspective. I hope we can find someone on our side with the magnanimity to approach this sensibly. Which means keeping that f*cking fascist balloon Farage a million miles away whilst the adults are talking.

I'm really not sure it would prompt an economic disaster. The sulking Remain press, The Graun in particular, are full of doom laden statements about economic meltdown, but the ftse is rising, the pound is stabilising and I rather suspect it will be the countries remaining in the EU who slide further into recession. Time will tell, but doom mongering guesswork isn't helping.

Carney's outlook statement yesterday was hardly a huge indictment. The pound stabilizing is s good thing but will change out import/export - it's stabilizing at a lower value that it was - Imports will cost more, exports will be cheaper - that doesn't happen overnight. When you say the FTSE is rising - correct - the FTSE100 has risen past pre-referendum point. The 250 (which has more UK focused companies on it hasn't - yet) - and it should of course be noted that we haven't actually left yet. In fact we haven't formally told them we're leaving. Nor have we actually got a plan for leaving nor have we got a timetable for a plan for leaving.

So at the moment it's a little like that really funny doctor who announces he's had the results back and you're going to die - pause for effect - at the ripe old age of 84 because they're all clear, but we do have some more test results to come back - maybe in 6 months or so.

I'd stop reading the Graun if it upset me.