In two minds

[plymouth wanderer]

Hi all

I'm after some advice please regarding claiming for an accident (sort of)

I'm a spray painter, I use solvent based paints, so its pretty nasty stuff! I have massive industrial fans fitted in my workshop but I have always struggled to get the correct PPE! boots, HI-vis is gear fine! But I was spraying for the first 8 months with a mask but not a air fed jobby! My employer kept promising me from day one that they were gonna get me one but it took them 8 months to cough up for it!

My visor broke a month and a half ago on my air fed mask, and I'm still waiting for a replacement after being promised loads of times! In the mean time I've been using a dust mask! I'm not one to moan. But it surely can't be doing me any good?

I would like to know where I stand? Do I go to the doctor and find out if it's having an affect on my health then take it up with my employer?

They tell that it's been ordered! Week passes and still nothing turns up.

Any advice would be appreciated

[Hoboh]

I think it's one for the HSE but that isn't easy and fraught with pitfalls to yourself, one being you have a responsibility for your health and safety as well as the company and carrying on with known damaged equipment won't help you.
Always sounds good taking action to get a wrong put right but the stress and time scales are ridiculous, you do have my sympathy I was a welder in the 70's and we used cheap masks, the sh*t that came down the nose and up the throat still was unbelievable.
In a union? use them. To be honest your employer or maybe it's a particular manager don't sound to clever or bothered.
You might not have your health affected right now but it is further down the line you may suffer, keep records of requests for equipment and response etc., you may one day need them.
Sorry I cannot be more specific or help out, it's very difficult without being hands on the problem.

[Gary the Enfield]

BOBO!!!!!!!!

[Bruce Rioja]

Just solvents, Plymouth, or isocyanates also (two pack acrylic hardener)? Auto refinishing is possibly the most lax industry on Earth when it comes to personal protection. I used to wash my hands with cellulose thinners ffs.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I think Bobo is best to help you here, but I can say that your employer has a case to answer here as it really should only take a couple of days to order and receive the items you need. In fact, they should be carrying a small stock of spares (they aren't that expensive FFS) if they have any sort of interest in the welfare of their employees.

Anyway, that aside. You should go and buy yourself adequate protection and then claim it back. Your health comes before anything else. Secondly, I know not necessarily easy, but find a new job. Your current employer doesn't give a shit and I suspect they'd shaft you at every opportunity. Find an employer that at least values the health of their employees.

[plymouth wanderer]

Cheers guys!

Just wrote a big reply, but for some reason it didn't come out!

Bruce, just solvent based paint bud, I use industrial thinners and gunwash ( real strong stuff)

This is what I'm scared of Hobah! I don't want to be ill! but I also don't want my family my sanity and my reputation dragged through the mud for the next few years!

[Gary the Enfield]

Cheers guys!

Just wrote a big reply, but for some reason it didn't come out!

Bruce, just solvent based paint bud, I use industrial thinners and gunwash ( real strong stuff)

This is what I'm scared of Hobah! I don't want to be ill! but I also don't want my family my sanity and my reputation dragged through the mud for the next few years!

As AT suggests either buy them yourself or source them from a supplier and give the information to your boss. Your health comes first. Forget about your reputation being dragged through the mud and think about what you want to be doing in 15 years time, like walking without having to drag an oxygen cylinder around with you.

[plymouth wanderer]

AT.

I told my boss yesterday after he told me the visors ain't In stock till the 9th of may ( month and a half after my last broke!!!) I told him that he might aswell order 2 so I have a back up ( I've seen the invoice fo the last one! All of 20quid) he told me he'd order one, and order another one next month as he needs the money elsewhere! I could've dropped him!!! The back uo sprayer is still waiting for his air fed mask ! He was told that he's only in there for 2 weeks whilst I'm on holiday so he doest need one! He has to make do with a cheapy one! He ain't happy about it either!

[plymouth wanderer]

Cheers guys!

Just wrote a big reply, but for some reason it didn't come out!

Bruce, just solvent based paint bud, I use industrial thinners and gunwash ( real strong stuff)

This is what I'm scared of Hobah! I don't want to be ill! but I also don't want my family my sanity and my reputation dragged through the mud for the next few years!

As AT suggests either buy them yourself or source them from a supplier and give the information to your boss. Your health comes first. Forget about your reputation being dragged through the mud and think about what you want to be doing in 15 years time, like walking without having to drag an oxygen cylinder around with you.

Cheers Gary! Hopefully BOBO will be able to give me some advice on it!

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

AT.

I told my boss yesterday after he told me the visors ain't In stock till the 9th of may ( month and a half after my last broke!!!) I told him that he might aswell order 2 so I have a back up ( I've seen the invoice fo the last one! All of 20quid) he told me he'd order one, and order another one next month as he needs the money elsewhere! I could've dropped him!!! The back uo sprayer is still waiting for his air fed mask ! He was told that he's only in there for 2 weeks whilst I'm on holiday so he doest need one! He has to make do with a cheapy one! He ain't happy about it either!

Is there anyone above your boss? If so, you might want to have a quiet word. I'm not up on legislation relating to your field, but it is very likely HSE would be very interested in your boss's approach to H&S. If there is anyone higher up, they might not be aware what is going on and appreciate a heads up to avoid any interest from HSE.

[Gary the Enfield]

AT.

I told my boss yesterday after he told me the visors ain't In stock till the 9th of may ( month and a half after my last broke!!!) I told him that he might aswell order 2 so I have a back up ( I've seen the invoice fo the last one! All of 20quid) he told me he'd order one, and order another one next month as he needs the money elsewhere! I could've dropped him!!! The back uo sprayer is still waiting for his air fed mask ! He was told that he's only in there for 2 weeks whilst I'm on holiday so he doest need one! He has to make do with a cheapy one! He ain't happy about it either!

Is there anyone above your boss? If so, you might want to have a quiet word. I'm not up on legislation relating to your field, but it is very likely HSE would be very interested in your boss's approach to H&S. If there is anyone higher up, they might not be aware what is going on and appreciate a heads up to avoid any interest from HSE.

Have a look at the C.O.S.H.H. folder or the labelling on the solvents. That will tell you the risks and recommendations for PPE

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

AT.

I told my boss yesterday after he told me the visors ain't In stock till the 9th of may ( month and a half after my last broke!!!) I told him that he might aswell order 2 so I have a back up ( I've seen the invoice fo the last one! All of 20quid) he told me he'd order one, and order another one next month as he needs the money elsewhere! I could've dropped him!!! The back uo sprayer is still waiting for his air fed mask ! He was told that he's only in there for 2 weeks whilst I'm on holiday so he doest need one! He has to make do with a cheapy one! He ain't happy about it either!

Is there anyone above your boss? If so, you might want to have a quiet word. I'm not up on legislation relating to your field, but it is very likely HSE would be very interested in your boss's approach to H&S. If there is anyone higher up, they might not be aware what is going on and appreciate a heads up to avoid any interest from HSE.

Have a look at the C.O.S.H.H. folder or the labelling on the solvents. That will tell you the risks and recommendations for PPE

You're assuming his boss bothers with up-to-date stuff like that

[Gary the Enfield]

AT.

I told my boss yesterday after he told me the visors ain't In stock till the 9th of may ( month and a half after my last broke!!!) I told him that he might aswell order 2 so I have a back up ( I've seen the invoice fo the last one! All of 20quid) he told me he'd order one, and order another one next month as he needs the money elsewhere! I could've dropped him!!! The back uo sprayer is still waiting for his air fed mask ! He was told that he's only in there for 2 weeks whilst I'm on holiday so he doest need one! He has to make do with a cheapy one! He ain't happy about it either!

Is there anyone above your boss? If so, you might want to have a quiet word. I'm not up on legislation relating to your field, but it is very likely HSE would be very interested in your boss's approach to H&S. If there is anyone higher up, they might not be aware what is going on and appreciate a heads up to avoid any interest from HSE.

Have a look at the C.O.S.H.H. folder or the labelling on the solvents. That will tell you the risks and recommendations for PPE

You're assuming his boss bothers with up-to-date stuff like that

Well that's why I mentioned the labelling too. But if he doesn't have a COSHH folder or at least a Risk Assessment register he could be in deep shit anyway. Crafty call to the HSE may be the next step.....

[plymouth wanderer]

Feeling well in over my head, I'm a down and dirty type! I love to get my hands dirty and I'd be the first to help with most things construction related! But all this? I'm not good with! With the way work is at the minute there's not alot out there! And Tbh I don't want to let the feck* get away with it either! There's at least two other guys who are not happy with the wait for PPE! One waited 5 months for steelies! And the other is still waiting for his air fed mask! ( though he only spends 4 weeks max in the spray shop)

My normal nature would be to crash in through the doors all guns blazing! But I want to gather as much info before doing so!

[Gary the Enfield]

Feeling well in over my head, I'm a down and dirty type! I love to get my hands dirty and I'd be the first to help with most things construction related! But all this? I'm not good with! With the way work is at the minute there's not alot out there! And Tbh I don't want to let the feck get away with it either! There's at least two other guys who are not happy with the wait for PPE! One waited 5 months for steelies! And the other is still waiting for his air fed mask! ( though he only spends 4 weeks max in the spray shop)

My normal nature would be to crash in through the doors all guns blazing! But I want to gather as much info before doing so!

PW presumably these solvents come in large containers? Have a look on the side and see what warning labels are on them. They will tell you the constituents, the risk to health and the recommended preventative measures. That's your start point.

Your company should have a COSHH folder (electronic or otherwise) that should be made available to you for reference. Under the COSHH (Control Of Substances Hazardous to Health) regulations this folder is kept updated with any and all substances, specific to your workplace, that could harm you. It will also recommend the correct storage, usage and preventative measures which your employer has a LEGAL obligation to undertake to protect you, the workforce. Failure to comply can lead to hefty fines and, in some extreme cases, imprisonment.

Speak to your boss again. Tell him you aren't happy with the lack of PPE. If you like, tell him you understand how frustrating it must be knowing that he cannot adequately protect his team. Suggest that you, or both of you, escalate the issue to HIS manager to try and resolve the matter and stay on the right side of the law.

But please do something. Your health is the most important thing. I know jobs are scarce but if you're off through ill health believe me, they won't think twice about replacing you.

Good Luck.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Good advice from GtE there ^

[plymouth wanderer]

Yeah,they come in 20ltr tins, Contain XYTLENE And ETHYLBENZENE

I'm familiar with COSHH but will make it a point to go through it again!

I don't want to go above him Tbh! I feel he'd get of scott free! He's had more than enough chance to make it right! I've told him what I needed loads of times till I'm blue in the face! I feel he's failed me and a few others!

[Worthy4England]

Park gaffer's desk in spray booth with non air-fed mask on it. See how often the fecker uses it and how long he stays there for.

Seriously, there isn't an easy way around this other than to approach it directly (not necessarily confrontationally). Not one you have to answer on here, but do you have a contract of employment and if so, does it say what equipment, the employer will provide for you?

GtE suggestion eminently sensible. I wouldn't be sat there wondering whether my long term health was at risk.

I hear what you're saying about him getting off scott free, is there a way to take it out of his management line (I'm not sure whether you work for big company or small one etc.?)

Being blue in the face under the circumstances isn't a good thing.

[TANGODANCER]

Don't you get visits from the factory inspectors, Plymouth? I worked for a company that blasted and painted shipping containers way back, and didn't even use a spray booth. The spraying was done in an open shop and the painter just used fabric masks.
Every so often panic reigned when the factory inspector arrived and gave the boss shxt about open paint drums etc, and how much could be stored inside and so on. Sounds like the Factory inspector (if there is one) could do with a quiet word from someone. Normally they're pretty heavy handed with people who don't comply with health and safety.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

It's also worth keeping note of dates, conversations etc, along with any emails or written notes. All handy should any form of dispute arise in future.