Manchester Arena

[CrazyHorse]

"Islamic State supporters 'cheer London attacks'
Posted at 0:44
No-one has so far claimed responsibility for the suspected terror attacks in central London.

However supporters of so-called Islamic State have been cheering the incidents on social media, BBC Monitoring reports."

[Hoboh]

We should 'bin off' those who love other countries and their way of life starting with the 3000, born here or not!

[Worthy4England]

We should 'bin off' those who love other countries and their way of life starting with the 3000, born here or not!

How do you suggest we go about this? Show of hands? All the folks who "love other countries" please email us so we can deport you to here because this is where you're born?

I get the sentiment, Hobes (and agree with the notion that if you don't like it here fvk off somewhere else), but aside from that what is it you're actually suggesting we do?

[Lord Kangana]

"Islamic State supporters 'cheer London attacks'
Posted at 0:44
No-one has so far claimed responsibility for the suspected terror attacks in central London.

However supporters of so-called Islamic State have been cheering the incidents on social media, BBC Monitoring reports."

Is this on the BBC website itself?

[CrazyHorse]

It was, aye. On their live update feed last night.

Presumably still on there now....

[bedwetter2]

Surely not adherents of the self-styled Religion of Peace again?

[TANGODANCER]

Surely not adherents of the self-styled Religion of Peace again?

The answer to this problem has nothing whatsoever to do with religion; never did have in reality. That's just the age old excuse "God wills it" translated into multi languages by crackpot charlatans and blood-thirsty zealots who are several hundred years behind the times.. Peace, who wants peace? If that happened millions would have nothing to do.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Surely not adherents of the self-styled Religion of Peace again?

The answer to this problem has nothing whatsoever to do with religion; never did have in reality. That's just the age old excuse "God wills it" translated into multi languages by crackpot charlatans and blood-thirsty zealots who are several hundred years behind the times.. Peace, who wants peace? If that happened millions would have nothing to do.

I think there must be a religious element, Tango. Surely suicide bombers must believe they are instantly transported to a better world which would indicate religious belief. Certainly one can say they are brainwashed, but brainwashed by religious leaders in the name of Islam. Of course, the vast majority of Muslims reject that doctrine but it still has to do with religion and, no doubt, many other factors.

[BWFC_Insane]

If it wasn't religion it would be some other arbitrary differentiator.

[Lord Kangana]

Yeah, as I recall it was three murderous nutcases, rather than 1.4 billion individuals thinking with a like mind.

[TANGODANCER]

I think there must be a religious element, Tango. Surely suicide bombers must believe they are instantly transported to a better world which would indicate religious belief. Certainly one can say they are brainwashed, but brainwashed by religious leaders in the name of Islam. Of course, the vast majority of Muslims reject that doctrine but it still has to do with religion and, no doubt, many other factors.

Oh aye Monty, and not wanting to turn this into a major debate, but the religious element is there in the teachings of the leaders alright, just not in the way the radicals choose to interpret and preach it. Religion is quote: "the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. whose wills we have only the Bible and Koran etc as instruction manuals. Neither they or the Torah etc or any of the peaceful devotees, preach violence as a means to reach Heaven, Paradise, Valhallah or even Eldorado. 'm still trying hard to understand how somebody commiting mass murder on innocents buys a ticket to Paradise? Ah, wait, maybe "blowing themselves to Kingdom come" is a clue?...

In reality, masses of deluded, disillusioned sheep are being used to carry out the will of murderous cranks in the name of religion, when greed and power to dominate are the real targets, that's my point, religion is just the excuse just as it was by the pope and the kings of France, Spain and our good selves back in Crusader days.. How humanitarian are the religious police who batter men and women alike into submission to their wills? The truth of it lies in Paris, London, Manchester etc and as recently as last night. What chapters of any religious tomes deal with that?

[Worthy4England]

Not my sort of gig, but well done one love Manchester...

[Prufrock]

It's astonishing that is even controversial, but the Archbishop of Canterbury disagrees that religious extremism is "nothing to do with religion".

For fairly self-evident reasons.

[Worthy4England]

It's astonishing that is even controversial, but the Archbishop of Canterbury disagrees that religious extremism is "nothing to do with religion".

For fairly self-evident reasons.

That's ok - he plays for a different team. CoE and all that. They've always been a bit weird.

[LeverEnd]

It's astonishing that is even controversial, but the Archbishop of Canterbury disagrees that religious extremism is "nothing to do with religion".

For fairly self-evident reasons.

Would these scumbags be blowing themselves up if someone hadn't convinced them there's a reward on the other side?
They don't characterise an entire religion but it clearly bollocks to say one's nothing to do with the other.

[Worthy4England]

It's astonishing that is even controversial, but the Archbishop of Canterbury disagrees that religious extremism is "nothing to do with religion".

For fairly self-evident reasons.

Would these scumbags be blowing themselves up if someone hadn't convinced them there's a reward on the other side?
They don't characterise an entire religion but it clearly bollocks to say one's nothing to do with the other.

When you look down the years - the IRA didn't try and blow themselves up - they just tried to blow every other fcuker up.

So yes it is bollocks to say one is nothing to do with the other, but I think they'd just do it differently if they didn't brainwash the fcukers using "religion"...

[BWFC_Insane]

It's astonishing that is even controversial, but the Archbishop of Canterbury disagrees that religious extremism is "nothing to do with religion".

For fairly self-evident reasons.

Would these scumbags be blowing themselves up if someone hadn't convinced them there's a reward on the other side?
They don't characterise an entire religion but it clearly bollocks to say one's nothing to do with the other.

Football violence happens. You could argue if there was no football it wouldn't happen. I don't think that would be the case though. Those people would do it at a different event or within a different context.

Religion is indeed one thing that divides us, but then if it wasn't, there are plenty of other things that do, things people could be equally fanatical about.

[TANGODANCER]

It's astonishing that is even controversial, but the Archbishop of Canterbury disagrees that religious extremism is "nothing to do with religion".

For fairly self-evident reasons.

Would these scumbags be blowing themselves up if someone hadn't convinced them there's a reward on the other side?
They don't characterise an entire religion but it clearly bollocks to say one's nothing to do with the other.

It isn't that one thing has nothing to do with another when the word religion is just the common denominato, an excuse. Read your history, it's that easily led people are being used by unscrupulous shxt-stirrers at the control level, as they have been since time immemorial in every religion, to believe things that just aren't true or even feasible becaue fear of the unknown can't be proven or disproven because of its "unknown" quality. . Religion doesn't say any of the things that Jihadists claim, even sensible followers of Islam admit that, that's just fact-twisting to suit their own ends. To combat your staterment's "bollox" tag, how many of the world's bad eggs are non-Muslim, even atheists? What's their motivation for killing and bombing? Religion is a convenient motivator to the poor and hopeless. We only ever went on Crusades in the first place because the popes and kings had no money and saw their chances to change that by claiming "Killing non believers isn't murder; God wills it" . Multi-thousands died without ever reaching Africa. Did anybody ever reall care about possesing Jerusalem teritorrially? Apart ,from the places mutually regarded as Holy in the life of Jesus and God, it'd just another fly-blown war zone that nobody apart from the Jews and Palestinians care a box of dates about. .

America is "The Big Satan", we in UK, The Little Satan" is the claim of the Jihadists, yet how many Muslims are this minute pouring out of airports in both to reach a better living? I repeat, religion is just a convenient song that went out of the top twenty back when Allan a Dale and co were playing lutes and tin whistles....

Amen.

[BWFC_Insane]

It's astonishing that is even controversial, but the Archbishop of Canterbury disagrees that religious extremism is "nothing to do with religion".

For fairly self-evident reasons.

Would these scumbags be blowing themselves up if someone hadn't convinced them there's a reward on the other side?
They don't characterise an entire religion but it clearly bollocks to say one's nothing to do with the other.

It isn't that one thing has nothing to do with another when the word religion is just the common denominato, an excuse. Read your history, it's that easily led people are being used by unscrupulous shxt-stirrers at the control level, as they have been since time immemorial in every religion, to believe things that just aren't true or even feasible becaue fear of the unknown can't be proven or disproven because of its "unknown" quality. . Religion doesn't say any of the things that Jihadists claim, even sensible followers of Islam admit that, that's just fact-twisting to suit their own ends. To combat your staterment's "bollox" tag, how many of the world's bad eggs are non-Muslim, even atheists? What's their motivation for killing and bombing? Religion is a convenient motivator to the poor and hopeless. We only ever went on Crusades in the first place because the popes and kings had no money and saw their chances to change that by claiming "Killing non believers isn't murder; God wills it" . Multi-thousands died without ever reaching Africa. Did anybody ever reall care about possesing Jerusalem teritororially? Apart ,from the places mutually regarded as Holy in the life of Jesus and God, it'd just another fly-blown war zone that nobody apart from the Jews and Palestinians care a box of dates about. .

America is "The Big Satan", we in UK, The Little Satan" is the claim of the Jihadists, yet how many Muslims are this minute pouring out of airports in both to reach a better living? I repeat, religion is just a convenient song that went out of the top twenty back when Allan a Dale and co were playing lutes and tin whistles....

Amen.

To be fair religion is a fairly easy vehicle to route this stuff through because it is underpinned by blind belief in deity and set of texts that cannot be proven. So from the get go, you have an audience willing to believe what they are told.

Secondly there isn't definitive religious texts. There are many versions of the bible. With different emphases, different translations, meanings, interpretations. You can argue that people take things "out of context" to suit their own ends, of course they do. But who is to say what the "right context" is? It is one person's make believe story up against another.

Move away from Islam, there are white Christians in the USA who have use the bible to justify beating their children. And not a small number either. Forget the morality on that particular issue, but very few Christians in this country would use their faith in that way. But it is all the same thing - if we take that argument. The point is that if you are believing in a religion it isn't a big step to believe fervently in an interpretation of that religion. And that is the problem. You cannot say "this one is wrong", because the very nature of belief prevents that.

I do agree that removing religion doesn't solve this. There would be other dividing factors. But the fundamental requirement of belief without proof or scrutiny is a major factor here.

[LeverEnd]

To be fair religion is a fairly easy vehicle to route this stuff through because it is underpinned by blind belief in deity and set of texts that cannot be proven. So from the get go, you have an audience willing to believe what they are told.

This is the point I was trying to make. Not that religion is all bad or should be banned etc, rather that to deal with religious extremism you have to look at the relationship between those two things. One clearly does have to with the other.