Top British sportsmen of all time

[Harry Genshaw]

Not dissing Cavendish here but surely even 1 time TDF winners are more renowned around the world than great sprinters, climbers etc who win stages but are generally forgotten about outside their own countries?

[BWFC_Insane]

Can't believe I forgot Lewis! Talk about disadvantages...

Always blows my mind that they keep firing through all these trust fund non-entities. Like you've had one black driver ever, one of only a handful of working class and a handful of non-white drivers, and he just so happens to be arguably the best of all time. You might want to cast your net a bit wider.

Can't be Hamilton as he doesn't have to even run!

Plus, the car has a huge input to success.

For me, the measure is dominating a sport for a sustained period. Murray is unfortunate to play in the era he did and hasn't dominated. For me, you have to look at the likes of Phil Taylor or Steve Redgrave. Both dominated their sport for a freakish amount of time

Yeah and say Laura Kenny too.

But I'm not convinced that 'dominating' a sport necessarily is the right metric. I see the argument sure - and can go with it.

But then for example - I don't think Ben Stokes 'dominates' cricket but he's probably on my list. And I think Murray's achievements relative to his origins and the era he's played in are beyond remarkable and for me in excess of rowers and cyclists in terms of opportunity - because frankly we support lots of very good rowers and cyclists! Not to take anything away from them and it all comes down to perspective.

I think dominating a sport has to come into it. If you ask any cycling fan who the greatest sprinter of all time is, everyone will say Cavendish. They probably will still say that in 20 years time.

There’s also vibes / patriotism too. A lot of the Olympians mentioned are good athletes and have achieved a lot from a GB athletics point of view, but will have made relatively little impact beyond here and certainly won’t be talked about in a generation by people overseas. (How many people around the world still venerate Daley Thompson, Tessa Sanderson or Torvill and Dean?). I’m not dismissing that as an argument as a lot of the response to sporting achievement is visceral rather than stats / numbers based, and the whole country uniting behind Daley Thompson for a couple of days is a huge thing. While Cavendish has utterly dominated, it’s still been in a minority sport in the UK and he’s not made that much of a wide impact.

It comes into it but I don’t think it’s the sole criterion and nor do I think it’s easily definable.

I think dominating a sport is more difficult to define in different contexts. Murray didn’t dominate tennis in an era of four greats but did rise to world number one for more than a year and won 3 grand slams and 2 olympic golds. That’s not dominating but it is certainly getting to the very top.

[Worthy4England]

Maybe the other three greats are a bit average and the rest shit!

[BWFC_Insane]

Maybe the other three greats are a bit average and the rest shit!

I mean no, but that point is pertinent more generally. Dominating a sport might be less an achievement in the era you dominate it.

Tennis - a good example is Sampras - who dominated tennis for a while and only in reality had Agassi as a genuine competitor. Sampras turned pro the same year as Jim Courier who inspite of 4 grand slam wins was not that great. And the era that preceded them had a bunch of players who were very good but faded more quickly than one might expect (Becker, Edberg etc).

Sampras won in an era and dominated in a era where there was little to rival him especially at Wimbledon.

There are loads of examples of sporting dominance where I think they were really good but simply didn't have the competition to really make that dominance stand out.

[TANGODANCER]

Maybe the other three greats are a bit average and the rest shit!

I mean no, but that point is pertinent more generally. Dominating a sport might be less an achievement in the era you dominate it.

Tennis - a good example is Sampras - who dominated tennis for a while and only in reality had Agassi as a genuine competitor. Sampras turned pro the same year as Jim Courier who inspite of 4 grand slam wins was not that great. And the era that preceded them had a bunch of players who were very good but faded more quickly than one might expect (Becker, Edberg etc).

Sampras won in an era and dominated in a era where there was little to rival him especially at Wimbledon.

There are loads of examples of sporting dominance where I think they were really good but simply didn't have the competition to really make that dominance stand out.

Top BRITISH sportsmen....?