Cricket World Cup

[TANGODANCER]

I just dread to look at the moment. Root fell to great fielding and Ben Stokes can only do so much..

[nicholaldo]

There's every possibility we win this, but it's clear enough now (if it wasn't already) that we can't get by picking T20 specialists to make up the numbers so we can accommodate a nonsense format at the height of the domestic calendar.

This is on the ECB.

[BWFC_Insane]

There's every possibility we win this, but it's clear enough now (if it wasn't already) that we can't get by picking T20 specialists to make up the numbers so we can accommodate a nonsense format at the height of the domestic calendar.

This is on the ECB.

There is very little possibility we win this. We are probably 120 short!

Rest I am with. And it’s beyond that it’s a huge lack of prep over the last couple of years for this generally.

Exemplified by Stokes who has barely played the format in three years deciding to rock up last minute and play the without any form or sense that it was a good idea.

Whole thing needs a massive review. Buttler is the wrong character for this though it needs someone much stronger and forthright to deal with the powers that be and say it how it is.

[Worthy4England]

There's every possibility we win this, but it's clear enough now (if it wasn't already) that we can't get by picking T20 specialists to make up the numbers so we can accommodate a nonsense format at the height of the domestic calendar.

This is on the ECB.

There is very little possibility we win this. We are probably 120 short!

Rest I am with. And it’s beyond that it’s a huge lack of prep over the last couple of years for this generally.

Exemplified by Stokes who has barely played the format in three years deciding to rock up last minute and play the without any form or sense that it was a good idea.

Whole thing needs a massive review. Buttler is the wrong character for this though it needs someone much stronger and forthright to deal with the powers that be and say it how it is.

Obvs a lot later than the initial post. We have no chance. So yes to this, although I'm not sure if Stokes decided to rock up or was asked to...

Even with the ECB issues, it's surprising how poor good cricketers can look, if it goes a bit rudderless...

[BWFC_Insane]

There's every possibility we win this, but it's clear enough now (if it wasn't already) that we can't get by picking T20 specialists to make up the numbers so we can accommodate a nonsense format at the height of the domestic calendar.

This is on the ECB.

There is very little possibility we win this. We are probably 120 short!

Rest I am with. And it’s beyond that it’s a huge lack of prep over the last couple of years for this generally.

Exemplified by Stokes who has barely played the format in three years deciding to rock up last minute and play the without any form or sense that it was a good idea.

Whole thing needs a massive review. Buttler is the wrong character for this though it needs someone much stronger and forthright to deal with the powers that be and say it how it is.

Obvs a lot later than the initial post. We have no chance. So yes to this, although I'm not sure if Stokes decided to rock up or was asked to...

Even with the ECB issues, it's surprising how poor good cricketers can look, if it goes a bit rudderless...

Stokes didn’t have to come out of retirement even if asked. Not his fault it just didn’t seem a good decision all round.

I don’t think Buttler is to blame either. He won the T20 World Cup as captain. He’s probably not the right character for dealing with a mess the ECB have left him and seemingly neither is Mott.

[Worthy4England]

Stokes for me is firmly a selection problem. If the selectors have said "we understand you've not played, been injured, can't bowl etc." but we've concluded we still need you, then why would Stokes say no?

What I would say about captaincy, (and it's not actually about Buttler) is it's really difficult to manage bowlers from the WK berth. Especially in pressure situations where the batting is going after them and there's a clock running on over rate. It's a pretty dumb decision for me - to make any WK the Captain, although I'm sure we can find exceptions to the rule. It's fine if everything is running on the rails, but when it's not, it's a different matter. You sometimes need to develop a ball by ball strat on the hoof to try and limit runs or just keep motivation going.

Feels to me like, collectively, there's a lot of things wrong with how we've approached this.

Our top 2 averaging batsmen are Malan, followed by Mark Wood. The rest are a way back, and the bowlers are led by Topley....

[BWFC_Insane]

Stokes for me is firmly a selection problem. If the selectors have said "we understand you've not played, been injured, can't bowl etc." but we've concluded we still need you, then why would Stokes say no?

What I would say about captaincy, (and it's not actually about Buttler) is it's really difficult to manage bowlers from the WK berth. Especially in pressure situations where the batting is going after them and there's a clock running on over rate. It's a pretty dumb decision for me - to make any WK the Captain, although I'm sure we can find exceptions to the rule. It's fine if everything is running on the rails, but when it's not, it's a different matter. You sometimes need to develop a ball by ball strat on the hoof to try and limit runs or just keep motivation going.

Feels to me like, collectively, there's a lot of things wrong with how we've approached this.

Our top 2 averaging batsmen are Malan, followed by Mark Wood. The rest are a way back, and the bowlers are led by Topley....

He’d retired from the format then decided to un retire to play the World Cup. Whether he was asked or not I don’t know but all round it seemed at the time to me a bit crazy. Oh sorry lads with the knee and becoming test captain I can’t play ODI anymore. Two years later…oh there is a World Cup…ok I will give it a bash. It seems desperate from both sides. He’s not played…he’s injured…let’s just pick him anyway and for me once you’ve retired unless there is an absolute crisis (and there wasn’t) you stay retired you can’t just pop back up for the glory - though none of that to go round.

Totally agree about WK captains btw. In modern ODIs is pretty impossible unless you are absolutely beastly as an attack.

[Worthy4England]

I'm not really sure of the point you're making? Players either declare themselves available or not. The people who then make the decision on whether they're picked are the selectors. It looks like the approach was made by the selectors to Stokes (para below is from August), so I dunno really what the beef is?

Matthew Mott, England's white-ball coach, said in an interview with the Mail on Sunday that Jos Buttler, their captain, would "lead the way" on communication with Stokes, adding: "We will see if he's keen. There has not been a clear direction on what he's going to do yet, but we are still hopeful."

When all's said n done, we could argue the why's and wherefore's but I think it's becoming pretty clear, that the large problem probably isn't how good Afghanistan are performing, but rather how poorly we are performing and as much as we can be critical around the way the ECB set the schedules, there's some serious individual underperformances that I'd find it difficult to pin just on the ECB and our overall approach. It feels like the equivalent of the Test side meltdown at the moment.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm not really sure of the point you're making? Players either declare themselves available or not. The people who then make the decision on whether they're picked are the selectors. It looks like the approach was made by the selectors to Stokes (para below is from August), so I dunno really what the beef is?

Matthew Mott, England's white-ball coach, said in an interview with the Mail on Sunday that Jos Buttler, their captain, would "lead the way" on communication with Stokes, adding: "We will see if he's keen. There has not been a clear direction on what he's going to do yet, but we are still hopeful."

When all's said n done, we could argue the why's and wherefore's but I think it's becoming pretty clear, that the large problem probably isn't how good Afghanistan are performing, but rather how poorly we are performing and as much as we can be critical around the way the ECB set the schedules, there's some serious individual underperformances that I'd find it difficult to pin just on the ECB and our overall approach. It feels like the equivalent of the Test side meltdown at the moment.

The point on Stokes I’m making is that it reflects massively muddled thinking trying to bring him back and also that he should have either been playing the format and not have retired or stayed retired.

I don’t think you can pick and choose just to play in world cups. Nor should selectors be trying to facilitate such a situation.

[Worthy4England]

Agreed mate, but it looks like it was a two way plan, even if we don't understand who actually kicked it off. I mean occasionally Club wags will send a letter to the ECB to let them know they're available for the tour of Australia, but they don't get picked! What I would say about Stokes, is, it struck me that his retirement was probably as much to do with injury and how much cricket he was playing, rather than "I'm shit at it" - both of which can change over time, but in any event still with the selectors. To give them some leeway, a fully firing Stokes is going to add to your chances. He's only played in 2 and was our top scorer in one of those.

Fairly sure there's going to be a significant inquest, but that isn't going to complete until after Bazball is getting tested v India away, which I think will be a real test of it...

[Worthy4England]

Decent start. On the ECB thing, ECB announced their contracts whilst the WC was in progress. Willy who's just got Kholi out, isn't getting one. Whether he deserves one or not, someone better placed than me can judge, but to tell them mid WC, they're off the roster? Bizarre.

[Prufrock]

Loooooool

[Worthy4England]

Loooooool

I'm thinking it's closer to Roflllllllllllllllllll, tbf.

I guess the one glimmer, is our highest averaging batsman hasn't reached the crease yet. They've just dispatched people generally sat at <20 average...

Edit: And looking on the bright side, apparently we're much better batting second and chasing...suggesting it could've been much worse!

[BWFC_Insane]

Loooooool

I'm thinking it's closer to Roflllllllllllllllllll, tbf.

I guess the one glimmer, is our highest averaging batsman hasn't reached the crease yet. They've just dispatched people generally sat at <20 average...

Edit: And looking on the bright side, apparently we're much better batting second and chasing...suggesting it could've been much worse!

The group are clearly not harmonious and there are massive issues. We maybe aren’t at the peak but these players simply aren’t THAT bad.

[Worthy4England]

Loooooool

I'm thinking it's closer to Roflllllllllllllllllll, tbf.

I guess the one glimmer, is our highest averaging batsman hasn't reached the crease yet. They've just dispatched people generally sat at <20 average...

Edit: And looking on the bright side, apparently we're much better batting second and chasing...suggesting it could've been much worse!

The group are clearly not harmonious and there are massive issues. We maybe aren’t at the peak but these players simply aren’t THAT bad.

Yeah, and whilst you can look at the planning that went in, to getting there or the multitude of other elements presented in mitigation. The bottom line for me is the whole lot look much further off the pace than the various mitigating things put forwards. A chunk of the top order are averaging probably less than 15. Wood and Woakes looked like they'd never seen a cricket ball (Woakes was better today) and the whole thing has fallen completely apart. Regardless of how good Afghanistan are!

[jimbo]

I think the lack of 50 over games we’ve played in the run up to this has been the issue. We’ve played half as many as we did in the 4 years before 2019, and it feels like the majority of those this cycle we’ve fielded a second string squad. There’s just not been enough high intensity preparation.

That’s led to us not having well drilled plans and uncertainty around selection. 2019 we knew our best XI, knew our power play and middle overs options as they’d been well drilled for 4 years previously. It’s probably also led to us not realising that certain players might just be past their peak, or newer not up to it when the pressure is truly on.

The way back from this is to prioritise 50 over cricket again, but I can’t see that happening any time soon.

[Worthy4England]

It all get's a bit fraught at this juncture. Mr Mott says "I think anyone that's inside our tent at the moment would say that despite our results, we're an incredibly tight-knit unit – to the point where Dave Humphries, who's a former rugby international, was flabbergasted just how tight the unit was when he came in for a week to observe us."

So it's not that, then!

I mean the good news is that we might have to play A LOT of ODI's now the qualification process has been made public and it's Pakistan (as hosts) + the next 7 highest finishers in this tournament...Whilst Mott is saying we didn't find out until Sunday, half way through the India match, surely we would have known there was only 8 automatic slots whether Pakistan was allocated one or not, so it was a racing cert than 9th/10th placed teams were going to have to walk it?

Fair play to Afghanistan, they're happily motoring along in 5th ahead of the black pump brigade...

[Worthy4England]

Better fist of the bowling, bit of a horlicks of the batting...

[TANGODANCER]

Better fist of the bowling, bit of a horlicks of the batting...

Once Stokes and Ali went it was lost. Up to then it was ours for the taking. -Australia were, as ever, Australia.

[BWFC_Insane]

Better fist of the bowling, bit of a horlicks of the batting...

Yeah though they got more than they should on that track with the start they made.

Interesting to hear the noises out of the camp that the whole squad lacks any confidence and that was the case going in. Lack of preparation clearly telling physically and mentally. It’s a fair point. Barely played 50 overs games and our prep in the relevant conditions was virtually non existent. For a squad riddled with new players, injuries and players not at peak form going in it’s not entirely surprising.

The trouble is the ECB I think feel we’ve won it now and it doesn’t really matter anymore and they just are focussed on making money in the hundred and T20 stuff.