9/11 Conspiracy Theory - Very interesting stuff

[plodder]

I'll put it in some order and come back.

Any progress? I've just started looking at all this myself and I'm interested in anything you can turn up.

A couple of links for you.......

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel ... annelID=89

http://www.911truth.org/

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread11167/pg1

There are some nuts on there but interesting reading.

[Wardrobe]

and some more

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/9-11_wtc_videos.html

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I watched an ace thing on the Discovery Channel explaining exactly how they came down. It was the Jet Fuel burning so hot that it burned the inadequite exoskeleton of the building that supported it. I have a hard time believing that the Discovery Channel was in any way complicit in a Conspiracy. Especially as they air exactly the kind of scientific programs that the current American Administration is disdainful of.

Jet fuel does not burn at a temperature that can melt steel. And even if that did miraculously happen, the towers fell from top to bottom in a time that was far to quick for the theory of a 'pancake collapse' to be accurate,

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

My favourite little aspect of all the mainstream press reports on why the towers came down is when they write "these towers were built specifically to withstand strikes by multiple jumbo jets" and then conclude by saying "the towers fell because of this completely unpredictable attack".

The BBC did exactly this, along with every other news agency. Their poor excuse for analysis simply isn't credible.

My other personal favourite is the 8 vapourized black boxes which were the first solid-state versions ever to be destroyed whilst an Arabic passport survived intact. It's almost as laughable as the Arabic flight manual or the entire Pentagon incident or.. the list is endless. Even as an apathetic and cynical subscriber to realpolitik I have the utmost respect for these crusading little guys making a bold stab at the truth. I've no time for the people that dismiss them as 'cranks'.

9/11 is possibly the only case where I think the people who refuse to digest a healthy dose of conspiracy theory are naive.

Thanks for dropping in and lending this a bit more credibility Quiff. Anyone who does even a moderate amount of reading on this will quickly come to the conclusion that the facts don't add up, and have not been subjected to very rigourous analysis by the big news agencies.

The examples Quiff mentioned, especially the black boxes (there was no precedent of their being destroyed beyond all use, and yet 8 were on the same day), are all good ones.

[americantrotter]

Alright melt is the wrong word, but heat certainly makes metal weaker. (Hence we have been fashioning metal under heat stress for centuries.) I still dont buy any of this crapola. They were hijacked and thousands died. The truth is we got caught with our pants down and many people paid for it with their lives.

[plodder]

OK, first of all, before I begin, the loss of life in the WTC incident is unprecedented and devastating to all. I watched the images numb, and now reviewing them with a more cynical eye, it is still shocking to see those bodies falling.

However, after a day of reading, watching and being open minded, I bring the following "facts" into question.

1. The Pentagon incident. None of the facts add up.

No plane was declared missing by ATC until after the impact.
The impact damage is not comparable to an air-crash.
The timeline of events as reported is innacurate and impossible.

2. WTC

Video evidence shows a smaller object hitting the tower. Then TV footage shown 10 mins later shows the first of the plane impacts.
The angle of impact would have affected more floors than shown on video evidence.
The structures should not have collapsed from the damage sustained by impact of aircraft.
The stuctures would not have collapsed from the heat generated by fuel and combustables burning.
The "weak strutt" explanation does not hold water as the building was over-engineered.

3. Press Releases

Mayor Guilliano states on air before the collapse that this would happen.
NBC/FOX/CNN all had multiple cameras in the area but none of them show any recordings before the incident.
The President discovering the incident was recorded with no prior notice to the school.

Overall if this is a conspiracy theory, then it is the biggest travesty of trust and justice ever.

I will not even begin to look at the events after the WTC disaster.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Alright melt is the wrong word, but heat certainly makes metal weaker. (Hence we have been fashioning metal under heat stress for centuries.) I still dont buy any of this crapola. They were hijacked and thousands died. The truth is we got caught with our pants down and many people paid for it with their lives.

Are you seriously calling me 'Crapola'? Please, have your American media derived opinion by all means, but really....

You have hinted in a few posts that discussing all of this somehow defiles the memories of those who are dead, and is disrespectful to them. But there is no need to see it in those terms - whatever large and desperate force led to those people losing their lives, the event was undoubtedly a very sad one and should not be forgotten in a hurry. However, the bare bare minimum of what is going on here is that in America, the land of the free, all kinds of pieces of information are being hidden and we are left with a picture that looks irrefutably very shady indeed.

[americantrotter]

I was not mentioning the strong sentimentt directly for myself. Merely that many here in this country would be easily provoked in this discussion. I just happen to believe the official version of the truth. I said before that all of the Pentagon stuff is very interesting and somewhat convincing.

I have seen the footage of those planes hitting the towers, and they are real not faked or "other" planes. On a personal note my Boss lost his son on one of those flights, and several of those planes took off from Boston. I fly out of that airport all the time and it is a bit creepy. You can accuse me of being too close that I will understand, but my opinion springs from what I saw and have seen. What says all those conspiracy theorists are telling the truth?

The weakened steel theory holds water to me. The Jet Fuel did the job better then the terrorists expected, but it did it none the less. It was an unexpected weakness to the overall ingenuity (sp?) of the towers. An exoskeleton allowed it to be built taller than anything before it. That skin and its limited protection to high temperature intense fire are what caused the towers to fall. Once one went down it severely weakened any chance the other had to stand.

You all know that I am no fan of Bush, I do not espouse my support of this theory in anyway to bury my head in the sand.

[kagni]

My main problem with the conspiracy theorists is their scattergun approach in claiming that almost everything to do with 911 was a lie/cover-up.
If they focused on a smaller number of highly suspiscious instances (the fact no fighters were scrambled to intercept the planes, the way the towers collapsed, the pentagon crash site) they might have a better chance of convincing people that a conspiracy took place.

Also on one of the conspiracy sites (http://www.911inplanesite.com) the following quote appears...

"The 911 Film Michael Moore Should Have Made."
David Icke - DavidIcke.com

Hardly the highest recommendation.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I couldn't agree more Kagni. Although it has been suggested that a lot of crap has been put out there deliberately so that the genuine stuff gets buried amongst it all.

[davroduk]

I am very open minded over the events on 9/11.

Let me put my opinion forward over the "steel melting point" argument.

Steel does not have to melt to cause a colapse of any structure.
Steel only has to become soft.
Think back over how many reports you have seen on the news of fires in steel roofed buildings, and seen the steel roof trusses twisted due to the heat of the fire.

I work in the Steel industry, and can understand the steel structure of the Trade Centers failing due to the heat of the fire.

Having said that, i agree that the collapses do look like controlled demolitions.
Both towers fell perfectly. (Fred Dibnah would have been proud)

[americantrotter]

But do they ook perfect because of how well the terrorists did their job. Remember the 2nd tower to be hit fell first as theat plane hit higher and faster. Both were fully loaded with fuel. They were bound for California. RIP to all of those that lost their lives.

The softened steel argument makes most sense. Americans are not shy to conspiracy theories. Elvis is still alive, and there was a 2nd gunamn who shot JFK. Too much video evidence supports the towers collapse.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I just don't think that the steel softening in the areas that were on fire was enough to cause the towers to fall in the manner and speed that they did, and a considerable number of experts agree with me. Any of the doubters got a theory on the lesser-known collapse of building WTC 7 on the complex?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Almost a year on, and there's still no way those three towers came down without some kind of controlled explosions.

If you have a spare hour, then type 'Loose Change' into Google video and watch the 2nd edition of the film. There isn't much new stuff in there, and of course some of it is open to challenge (I personally wish they'd leave the less concrete stuff out of it) but it is a watchable compilation of some of the main conspiracy theorist material.

[communistworkethic]

Almost a year on, and there's still no way those three towers came down without some kind of controlled explosions.

If you have a spare hour, then type 'Loose Change' into Google video and watch what the 2nd edition of the film. There isn't much new stuff in there, and of course some of it is open to challenge (I personally wish they'd leave the less concrete stuff out of it) but it is a watchable compilation of some of the main conspiracy theorist material.

So the US government, or an organisation within it, rigged the whole thing?

Chinny reckon.

[Lennon]

It's the same thing as the moon landings and the JFK assassination; there's all this "compelling evidence" to back up the conspiracy theories, yet all people do is talk about it and make hundreds of documentaries with the same haunting music. If the evidence was really that compelling, it'd be being discussed in an international court, not an internet message board.
I'm not saying I entirely dismiss any of these alternative theories, I just don't care enough to get excited about it.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I'm not saying I entirely dismiss any of these alternative theories, I just don't care enough to get excited about it.

But you can see how that's sort of the point?

[ratbert]

Myths and legends always build up around these type of events. Look at Diana, and all the claims (mostly from the Daily Express) that she was murdered on the orders of Prince Philip or whoever.

How old exactly was the World Trade Centre? I'm guessing early 70s or late 60s. Surely that would have determined how vulnerable it was, as civil engineering technology and methods wouldn't have been as advanced back then.

[Lennon]

I'm not saying I entirely dismiss any of these alternative theories, I just don't care enough to get excited about it.

But you can see how that's sort of the point?

Yeah, I understand what you're getting at. But my point is, people who DO care enough to do all this research and write about it, never seem to actually do ANYTHING with their evidence, so ultimately they're as much use to their own cause as ignorant people like me.

[communistworkethic]

I'm not saying I entirely dismiss any of these alternative theories, I just don't care enough to get excited about it.

But you can see how that's sort of the point?

Yeah, I understand what you're getting at. But my point is, people who DO care enough to do all this research and write about it, never seem to actually do ANYTHING with their evidence, so ultimately they're as much use as ignorant people like me.

Plus they all come across as being a bit mental.