SET PIECES: No to Diego!

ratbert · Post by **ratbert** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:36 am

I'm not the biggest fan of Maradona, and here's why:

http://www.the-wanderer.co.uk/content.p ... ure&id=390

For him or against?

boltonboris · Post by **boltonboris** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:42 am

I hate the fella, but you cannot deny hes the greatest footballer of our generation and THAT goal WAS superb. Yes hes a big headed arrogant sweaty curly haired prick, but he was just unbelievably magnificent at football, and for that he will always be remembered and so he should be

warthog · Post by **warthog** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:54 am

Agree with Ratbert. That goal was totally overrated. The refereeing that year was such that defenders weren’t allowed to as much as touch strikers.

I too laughed at Maradonna’s blubbing in 1990 and also in 1982 when he got sent off. Of course Maradonna was responsible for Bob Wilson’s only transmitted joke. At the 1994 World Cup, as the tubby one ran towards the camera like a crazed loon, Wilson commented that, ‘if he did that to me, he’d get the hand of Bob in his face.’

Dujon · Post by **Dujon** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:17 am

From the outside it certainly looks like Maradona is flawed as a person. George Best was also flawed but didn't as far as I know ever attract attention on the football field for cheating or off the field for taking illicit drugs or shooting up his neighbourhood. By his own admission Best was an alcoholic who simply couldn't kick his addiction. Maradona too was an addict but one who for many years seems to have refused to acknowledge the fact. In his defence, though, he finally got the message and seems - at least last time I looked - to have kicked the demons out. He certainly looked a whole lot healthier last time I saw him on television.

Pelé on the other hand, as ratbert mentioned, is ever the gentleman. How a joint award was given to both remains a mystery to me. Perhaps Maradona was Pelé's equal on the pitch if you base that judgement on ability alone. Pelé was never accused of cheating. To me that makes a huge difference and also for that reason Maradona wouldn't even make my top 100 list.

Thanks for the reminder, ratbert.

H. Pedersen · Post by **H. Pedersen** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:48 am

You make some fair points about the man himself but I think it's silly to run down his second goal against England because of that. You criticize him, rightfully, for his poor sportsmanship. But Ratbert, isn't writing a whole article devoted to negating the devastating goal he scored against your country poor sportsmanship? This just struck me as sour grapes. If things stay the way they are Rosicky may well be the man who knocked the USA out in 2006 but I'm not going to devote articles in 2026 to how his first wonder strike was not that great, it's silly to harp on such things 20 years past the fact.

BTW, Carlos Alberto's strike was not even close.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:07 am

Maradona is the greatest player of the last 30 years.

He has more about him (literally) than his peers, plus he is good with an air rifle.

warthog · Post by **warthog** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:40 am

H. Pedersen wrote:BTW, Carlos Alberto's strike was not even close.

C'mon Ratbert. Get my world cup memories piece up, so HP can be enlightened as to why Carlos Alberto's goal is infinitely superior.

CrazyHorse · Post by **CrazyHorse** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:22 am

ratbert wrote:I'm not the biggest fan of Maradona, and here's why:

http://www.the-wanderer.co.uk/content.p ... ure&id=390

For him or against?

Against the cheating b'stard.

'nuff said.

Le Snake · Post by **Le Snake** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:21 pm

Part of Maradona's problem is that he's been surrounded his whole career by paid and unpaid sycophants, something which continues now in the countries where he played. He's on TV here quite a bit at the moment, and the arse-licking constantly puts me off me tea.

warthog · Post by **warthog** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:34 pm

The gobby little runt's in the crowd for the match with Serbia & Montegro. Argentina look very handy. Unfortunately.

picaro · Post by **picaro** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:52 pm

sometimes, when i watch him on the tele, i wish he would just drop from some cocaine-induced heartattack

Bruce Rioja · Post by **Bruce Rioja** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:58 pm

picaro wrote:sometimes, when i watch him on the tele, i wish he would just drop from some cocaine-induced heartattack

A tad strong, picaro. Has he done you personal harm or something?

picaro · Post by **picaro** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:00 pm

directly ...no. indirectly... yes! it's still too soon to talk about it...

50sQuiff · Post by **50sQuiff** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:08 pm

H. Pedersen wrote:BTW, Carlos Alberto's strike was not even close.

Absolute rubbish! The prescient vision required by Pele's final ball, let alone the rest of the buildup, was in itself more masterful and inspired than Diego's goal in its entirety.

communistworkethic · Post by **communistworkethic** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:33 pm

50sQuiff wrote:
H. Pedersen wrote:BTW, Carlos Alberto's strike was not even close.
Absolute rubbish! The prescient vision required by Pele's final ball, let alone the rest of the buildup, was in itself more masterful and inspired than Diego's goal in its entirety.

Got to agree, Maradona's second only looks good because it's a run over 50 yards. There isn't a decent challenge on him in that time. Reid is puffing away at the side of him and gives up. Terry Fenwick had one job that day - stop Maradona before he got near the box, he was out of position to start with and lunged with little hope. After that the marking was all over the place and he just had to get past mr skilliful, Terry Butcher.

Carlos Alberto's goal is not just about the finish it's about a team playing at its peak, bristling with pace, power and panache. It was the brilliance that cut a swathe through the midfield and defence not the ineptitude of the opposition.

warthog · Post by **warthog** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:36 pm

communistworkethic wrote:
50sQuiff wrote:
H. Pedersen wrote:BTW, Carlos Alberto's strike was not even close.
Absolute rubbish! The prescient vision required by Pele's final ball, let alone the rest of the buildup, was in itself more masterful and inspired than Diego's goal in its entirety.
Got to agree, Maradona's second only looks good because it's a run over 50 yards. There isn't a decent challenge on him in that time. Reid is puffing away at the side of him and gives up. Terry Fenwick had one job that day - stop Maradona before he got near the box, he was out of position to start with and lunged with little hope. After that the marking was all over the place and he just had to get passed mr skilliful, Terry Butcher.

Carlos Alberto's goal is not just about the finish it's about a team playing at its peak, bristling with pace, power and panache. It was the brilliance that cut a swathe through the midfield and defence not the ineptitude of the opposition.

Eight players, nine passes and a piece of close control in the middle that was far superior than that displayed in Maradonna's run. It was also against a very good defence.

trotter58 · Post by **trotter58** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:43 am

I can't believe you lot call yourselves football supporters.

What people seem to forget is that he practically won the World Cup single-handedly for Argentina in 1986. They didn't have a great team, nowhere near as good as the team that won it in 1978 but he carried them all the way to the final. The defence-splitting pass he played for the winning goal against the Germans was worth the admission alone.

He scored one of the best goals ever seen in the World Cup against England, running half the length of a terrible, bobbly pitch with the ball seemingly glued to his feet AND he virtually repeated the feat against Belgium later in the competition!

I remember feeling genuinely disappointed that he was kicked out of the World Cup in the USA because he was already starting to dominate proceedings again and we were deprived of one last chance to see him parade his talents on the world stage.

I don't care whether people behave badly off the pitch, or even on it for that matter, providing they make an impact while they're at it. Gary Lineker was a gentleman, never booked during his professional career, one of England's all-time leading goalscorers, but he admitted that Maradona was one of his all-time heros in the recent BBC documentary. Why? Because despite all his obvious faults, he was the greatest player of all time.

Dujon · Post by **Dujon** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:35 am

I think you'll find, trotter58, that there's not one post so far which indicates an opinion that Maradona was not an exceptionally good player.

I think I'd put Maradona in the same basket as Mike Tyson. Tyson was a brilliant boxer in his younger days, I very much doubt that in his prime he met an opponent who wasn't terrified of the prospect of climbing into the ring. Just as I do Maradona I applaud him for his skills but not for his general behaviour. Maybe I'm getting old but to me the quality of a man can only be judged by his overall performance through life and not just one aspect of it.

The 'win at all costs' mentality still puzzles me, as it always has. Maybe I'm just built that way, I really don't know the answer to that, but one thing's for sure: I have competed mightily over the years and won a few battles in my time (and lost even more) but I have never, ever, cheated. Rules are rules whether they be society's or those of a game.

trotter58 · Post by **trotter58** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:15 am

Dujon wrote:The 'win at all costs' mentality still puzzles me, as it always has. Maybe I'm just built that way, I really don't know the answer to that, but one thing's for sure: I have competed mightily over the years and won a few battles in my time (and lost even more) but I have never, ever, cheated. Rules are rules whether they be society's or those of a game.

I'm not saying that it's right but I'll accept the bad memories if they're balanced by plenty of good ones. Maradona took plenty of physical abuse over the years from teams that were determined to stop him by fair means or foul. His career amounted to much more than the 'hand of God'.

I doubt we'll be talking about Peter Crouch in the same way as Maradona in 20 years time, but I don't see anyone complaining about his blatant bit of cheating against Trinidad & Tobago.

boltonboris · Post by **boltonboris** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:57 pm

trotter58 wrote:
Dujon wrote:The 'win at all costs' mentality still puzzles me, as it always has. Maybe I'm just built that way, I really don't know the answer to that, but one thing's for sure: I have competed mightily over the years and won a few battles in my time (and lost even more) but I have never, ever, cheated. Rules are rules whether they be society's or those of a game.
I'm not saying that it's right but I'll accept the bad memories if they're balanced by plenty of good ones. Maradona took plenty of physical abuse over the years from teams that were determined to stop him by fair means or foul. His career amounted to much more than the 'hand of God'.

I doubt we'll be talking about Peter Crouch in the same way as Maradona in 20 years time, but I don't see anyone complaining about his blatant bit of cheating against Trinidad & Tobago.

He was giving as good as he got in the previous game and the game against T&T, and also if he's a "cheat" what do you say about our very own Kevin Davies?? Is he a cheat too?

I agree with your sentiments about maradonna as he was amazingly gifted but I dont that you can call climbing, cheating