Racism?

[Epitaph]

There's all this support going round for 'kick racism out of football' but during the World Cup, there was a few stories on Trinidad and Tobago and that their supporters call Chris Birchall 'White Boy'. Now, could this be classed as racism? Before you all jump and say 'haha no way' or whatever, just think, say England played 10 white players and Sol Campbell, what would happen if we called him 'Black Boy'? There'd be a national outrage.

I don't think it's on that T&T can call Birchall that, but if it's the other way round then it's classed as racism. Racism isn't just one way. This is just one example of it being one-way though, it's bothered me for some time how Asians/Africans etc have got away with it.

Some of you extreme lefties might start ranting on that I'm racist, which is totally ridiculous but I know I'm right about what I'm saying.

[Tombwfc]

I agree totally. Racism is seen as one way, as people believe only white people can be racist for whatever reason.

Stuff like this annoys me though, like the Muslims only day they're having at Alton Towers soon. It'd be burnt to the ground if anyone suggested a white person/christians only day.

Your case is slightly more complicated though, as i don't think Burchill is arsed.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Everyone, regardless of colour, can be a racist and regretfully many are. In the case you refer to, I cannot really comment. Much would depend on the tone and intent of how it is used, and I don't know the situation. BWFC supporters chant "Come on you White Men" with no racist intent, but they could be accused of it (and I couldn't recommend its use in an away game against Harlem ). The trap to avoid is thinking "Since they are racist why shouldn't I be?".

[warthog]

Depends on the context. Is Chris Birchall complaining?

Where do these stories come from? Is there any proof that they're true?

The world's full of shit stirrers. Get the facts before you get huffy.

[50sQuiff]

Are they really using 'White Boy' as a pejorative term? Terms such as 'Black Boy' are bound up in centuries of racial social constructs, whereas 'White boy' isn't.

When I was in India last year there was a cricket series going on. I caught sight of a newspaper headline in a major broadsheet that went along the lines of India 'having whipped the Pakis'. My eyes were wide-open for seconds because I found it so shocking, until I quickly understood that this is simply the standard abbreviation for Pakistan outside of Europe and part of a generally friendly sporting rivalry. No National Front and historical connotations, means no racism. It's not words in themselves that are offensive Epitaph.

Now if they were calling Birchill 'White Trash' perhaps, or 'Cracker' this would be a different matter. They would be pejorative racist terms. I suggest you think far longer and far harder before getting huffy about these complex issues, and lashing out at 'lefties'.

[Epitaph]

Depends on the context. Is Chris Birchall complaining?

Where do these stories come from? Is there any proof that they're true?

The world's full of shit stirrers. Get the facts before you get huffy.

Birchall isn't complaining, I was just using that as an example. The facts also come from newspapers. I bold the word 'example' because there are numerous other cases, non-football related, where it happens also.

[Tombwfc]

The Burchill thing is true. They interviewed a couple of T&T players about how he was fitting in and he said everyone referred to him as 'white boy'. It all seemed in good nature though.

[warthog]

Depends on the context. Is Chris Birchall complaining?

Where do these stories come from? Is there any proof that they're true?

The world's full of shit stirrers. Get the facts before you get huffy.

Birchall isn't complaining, I was just using that as an example. The facts also come from newspapers. I bold the word 'example' because there are numerous other cases, non-football related, where it happens also.

The facts come from newspapers? Well they can alway be relied upon to print the truth can't they? Give us some sources. There must be some on the net if it's that widespread.

Feel free to let us know about the other cases as well.

[50sQuiff]

Come on Warthog, people don't need examples when the WHOLE WORLD HAS GONE PC MAD.

[Dr.Karl]

Tom would you have a problem with the following link?

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_b ... 152046.ece

Alton Towers is a private business, they can run it as they wish. "Muslim Leisure" have hired the theme park for the day, so they can do as they wish. I don't have a problem with it at all.

It'd be burnt to the ground if anyone suggested a white person/christians only day.

By who exactly? What are you trying to say with that statement?

[superloop]

I kinda know what's been got at here. But the examples are flawed. Now what really gets my goat is "Women only Car Insurance" grr grr grr

[CrazyHorse]

I kinda know what's been got at here. But the examples are flawed. Not what really gets my goat is "Women only Car Insurance" grr grr grr

[communistworkethic]

I kinda know what's been got at here. But the examples are flawed. Now what really gets my goat is "Women only Car Insurance" grr grr grr

ok, we've been over this before. It's insurance, it's risk based pricing they can include or exclude who they want on that basis. However, you will find that none are actually women only, just that their pricing is generally weighted so heavily towards attracting women drivers why would men use them.


and on the first point I'd just echo Warthog and Quiff's sentiments.

[Bruce Rioja]

say England played 10 white players and Sol Campbell, what would happen if we called him 'Black Boy'? There'd be a national outrage.

Of course there would be, Campbell shouldn't have been included in the first place.

[TANGODANCER]

Limeys, Poms, Whiteys, Honkies, Brits, Yanks, Ozzies, Kiwis, you name it, the white race has had it all for centuries. Nobody complained or took much notice. Now, we live in a multi-national world and, like the rest of progress, we move on. The main element is where any form of dire insult is intended as opposed to general descriptive tems or obvious friendly joking. I'm all for killing of any form of racism, but still think its all gone too far. The pc zealots have made themselves a laughing stock by trying to make a carreer of nit-picking. Read Harold Jacobson on Manchester and his attempts to explain the dividing line in a sensible way.

In one way, the white race is paying the price for its past of empire building (read blatant stealing of other people's territory). In that respect, we deserve some knuckle-rapping I suppose.

Just my opinion.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Limeys, Poms, Whiteys, Honkies, Brits, Yanks, Ozzies, Kiwis, you name it, the white race has had it all for centuries.

These examples are not for the white race, TD, they are for English-speaking peoples, or natives of countries that were once British, and created by English speakers. I expect some of the epithets applied to non-anglophone caucasians would be considered offensive - spic, dago, wop, frog, etc. Perhaps in their own language they have names for us we would find offensive. Over here the French call us Tête carré (square head but really blockhead) - it is intended to be derisive. Granted we don't really care and even find it amusing, but that doesn't change its intent.

[thebish]

Over here the French call us Tête carré (square head but really blockhead) - it is intended to be derisive. Granted we don't really care and even find it amusing, but that doesn't change its intent.

in France they call us "Ros Bif" - rost beef! - which is a bit too bizarre for me to take with any great offense!!

[TANGODANCER]

Limeys, Poms, Whiteys, Honkies, Brits, Yanks, Ozzies, Kiwis, you name it, the white race has had it all for centuries.

These examples are not for the white race, TD, they are for English-speaking peoples, or natives of countries that were once British, and created by English speakers. .

"Limeys"came from English sailors (mainly white then) sucking limes as a cure for scurvy during sea voyages. "Whitey", speaks for itself. "Honky" came from Harlem where white guys would drive around in cars trying to pick up black girls.

What bothers me most is Black history, Black music, Black culture etc. Are these things now something to be ashamed of? If not, why is it such a sin to use the word? It's just a word that defines all thes things. What is wrong with that? I'd love to hear a few black views on the topic.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Over here the French call us Tête carré (square head but really blockhead) - it is intended to be derisive. Granted we don't really care and even find it amusing, but that doesn't change its intent.

in France they call us "Ros Bif" - rost beef! - which is a bit too bizarre for me to take with any great offense!!

Yes, I was on the Marseilles board. They do it because of our dietary predelictions just the same as we use frogs because they eat the legs (not sure who started it). In the Napoleonic war we called them crapauds (toads) which they didn't eat. In the Hundred Years War they called us Les Goddamns based on the most usual remark of the common soldier. Apparently other ranks haven't changed that much.

[CAPSLOCK]

IF PAKIS DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT BEING CALLED PAKIS, ITS BECAUSE THEY'RE TOO INTIMIDATED TO SAY ANYTHING

WHEN BURCHILL LAUGHS OFF BEING WHITE BOY, ITS BECAUSE ITS JUST A LAUGH AND HE DOESN'T MIND



DOUBLE STANDARDS


BUT THEN I DON'T SEE A PROBLEM WITH EITHER, IN THE RIGHT CONTEXT/MANNER

I JUST KNOW THAT SOME ON HERE WOULD NEVER DEFEND MY RIGHT TO CALL A PAKISTANI A PAKI