too early for an ashes thread??

thebish · Post by **thebish** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:55 am

It is widely reported that he was suffering from depression. He talked about it a bit when he declared himself fit for the ashes tour..

depression is, of course, a complex condition - it's hard to draw a line a declare "I am better now" - but I did think to myself at the time he was declared fit (or declared himself fit) - that it was a tough re-entry.. the Aussies were always going to get after him..

anyway - good luck to him - I'm glad it's now rather than in two weeks time...

so who will partner Strauss??

blurred · Post by **blurred** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:55 am

He's not half fit, he's half mental!

And in a bizarre way it actually solves a problem. His form's been poor in the opening couple of tour games, and we now have the answer to the problem of '2 from Cook, Bell and Collingwood'. Cook will open, and Colly can come in to the middle order, with the possibility of supplementing a weak-ish bowling line up.

Anyway, here's a couple of good pieces in the build up to the ashes:

SLOWLY BUT SURELY...

With only a three-day match against XVIII of South Australia to go before the Brisbane Test starts on November 23, England's team is threatening to fall into place, presumably to the disquiet of the Australian newspaper whose headline after the defeat to the Prime Minister's XI in Canberra - How on earth did we lose the Ashes to this lot? - fell on the excitable side of hysterical.

The batting seems to have sorted itself out, even if Marcus Trescothick's pair of early failures are a worry. Ian Bell ought to take his place at No5 despite his second-ball duck against New South Wales, and there have been half-centuries for the other four members of the likely top six: Andrew Strauss (who needs to start turning fifties into hundreds), Alastair Cook (the Spin's only worry is his weakness against leg-spinners, and Australia might have two of them), Kevin Pietersen and - most hearteningly of all - Andrew Flintoff.

The romantics who believe that a Test team aspiring to win in Australia can carry a No7 with a batting average of 20 are still lashing out at the decision to drop Chris Read, but Duncan Fletcher and Flintoff had no option. Even the old argument that Read was miles ahead of Jones with the gloves was called into question by his fumblings in the Champions Trophy. Most crucial, as far as making Australia work hard for 20 wickets is concerned, is the fact that the tail will now begin at No8 instead of a place higher.

Then we come to the bowling. And this is where it gets a little tricky. Before the tour began, the probable line-up from No8-11 went like this: Sajid Mahmood, Matthew Hoggard, Steve Harmison, Monty Panesar. However, Mahmood has, by Fletcher's own admission, fallen behind Jimmy Anderson (five wickets in the match against NSW), which presents a problem of its own. Anderson is a bunny in the Panesar
mould: Hoggard at No8 would be a liability. And that means that Ashley Giles, whose remodelled action has not exactly been feted by the correspondents out in Australia, is manoeuvring himself into contention.

But if Giles bats at No8, where does that leave Anderson? Is Fletcher really considering bringing him in for Panesar? If he does, Australia will be laughing. The most convincing combination, given the need to bat as deep as possible and still put out a balanced attack, is to play both spinners, with the fast stuff coming from Flintoff, Hoggard and Harmison. Anderson will doubtless get a game before the series is over.

This scenario has risks of its own. Giles has hardly bowled for a year and cannot necessarily be relied upon to keep it tight. Yet there are only three alternatives: give Mahmood a chance at No8; play Anderson and Panesar, thus pushing Hoggard to No8; drop Panesar for Anderson. Of those, the one that most combines boldness with prudence is the first: everyone knows Mahmood tends to go for a few in one-day cricket, so his mauling at Canberra is neither here nor there. But twice in his five-Test career - on debut against Sri Lanka at Lord's, then against Pakistan at Headingley - he has demonstrated genuine golden-arm ability. If he could guarantee two devastating spells in five Tests this winter, he will have done his job.

And

EXTRAS

It was an Australia journalist who asked the question. "Ricky, you'll inevitably be dubbed Dad's Army by the British tabloids. What do you say to that?" Ponting thought for a moment and said: "We're only two months older than the last time we played and there wasn't too much worry then." That was in June 2005, before the start of the last Ashes series, since when almost 18 months have passed under the bridge and even former Australian players - many of whom would not look out of place in the current XI - have started to ask the same question.

The facts are these. Shane Warne is 37 and Glenn McGrath 36. Damien Martyn turned 35 on October 21, beating Matthew Hayden to the mark by eight days. Stuart MacGill has been 35 for quite a while now, and Adam Gilchrist celebrates his 35th today (don't drop the cake). Justin Langer is 35, but not for much longer: he turns 36 two days before Brisbane. England's oldest player is Marcus Trescothick, who is 31 on Christmas Day.

But does it matter? After all, age brings experience and apparently you can't buy that down at your local Londis. Ian Botham, though, has a different opinion. "I can't imagine there has ever been a team that old in international cricket," he said. "There are some great cricketers in [the Australian team], but when Father Time starts to call, it can all fall apart very quickly."

So how would Botham rally the troops in a hypothetical world in which people called him "coach"? "I want to hear the England camp talking more positively," he beefied. "I want to hear them saying how good they are and how p*ss poor the Dad's Army of Aussies are. That's the attitude they must have. If they allow the Aussies any psychological advantage, they might as well come home. Lads, the Aussies are more than a year older than the team you beat last time. Start believing in yourselves." And people wonder why England lost only 11 Tests out of 36 against Australia when Botham was in the team...

thebish · Post by **thebish** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:59 am

blurred wrote:
EXTRAS

So how would Botham rally the troops in a hypothetical world in which people called him "coach"? "I want to hear the England camp talking more positively," he beefied. "I want to hear them saying how good they are and how p*ss poor the Dad's Army of Aussies are. That's the attitude they must have. If they allow the Aussies any psychological advantage, they might as well come home. Lads, the Aussies are more than a year older than the team you beat last time. Start believing in yourselves." And people wonder why England lost only 11 Tests out of 36 against Australia when Botham was in the team...

Now that's a good verb... I must use that more often.. (thebish beefied)

blurred · Post by **blurred** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:05 pm

Indeed - the Grauniad do come up with some belters. Between the Spin and the Fiver they have two of the best emails going.

hisroyalgingerness · Post by **hisroyalgingerness** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:09 pm

the rumour behind all of that is his wife threatening to kill herself if he goes away - she's allegedly the crazy one

thebish · Post by **thebish** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:55 am

Harmison out with a "tight side" last night.

and Monty picked over Giles... (I can't help but think that picking Gilo would signal a defensive attitude - I don't think we'd retain the ashes with a defensive attitude - even though Monty is a dog with the bat!!)

for the Aussies - shane watson (promising all-rounder) has some kind of a leg muscle tweak - and one of the batsmen has picked up an elbow problem - I forget which...

I'm very nervous about Harmison - (and Anderson) - they could both come off big-time or bomb big-time..

on the bright side - The Hogster was amongst the wickets again - with the new ball he is still top-totty...

Daxter · Post by **Daxter** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:06 am

Sorry but we are going to get destroyed in the ashes,

thebish · Post by **thebish** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:11 am

Come on dax - that's not like you - you're irrepressably happy and jolly on the Trotters thread.... why the long face??

CrazyHorse · Post by **CrazyHorse** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:22 am

As a non-believer of cricket I've steered away from this thread so far but I was wondering, you've all pontificated for three pages about whether it's too early for an Ashes thread or not - maybe one of you should actually start one?

thebish · Post by **thebish** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:49 pm

is anyone planning to stay up all night to watch the first ashes test? And if so - any tips/strategies for surviving the following day?

CAPSLOCK · Post by **CAPSLOCK** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:55 pm

thebish wrote:is anyone planning to stay up all night to watch the first ashes test? And if so - any tips/strategies for surviving the following day?

I've booked Thursday and Friday off

James B · Post by **James B** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:05 pm

what time over here will the days play start?

CAPSLOCK · Post by **CAPSLOCK** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:10 pm

In Brisbane, its midnight

ie late Wednesday, first thing Thursday

Perth its about 3 or 4

Dujon · Post by **Dujon** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:37 pm

Yes, CAPS, W.A. is closer in time to yourself than the east coast, thus games would commence later your time than games at the 'gabba, the SCG and the MCG.

Also: Please note that the games do not all start at the same local time.

To clarify:

At present (and right through the test series) time differences are as follows:-

Queensland (The 'gabba) +10 hours
Sydney (SCG) +11
Melbourne (MCG) +11
South Australia (Adelaide) +10½
Western Australia (WACA) + 8 *edit* IMPORTANT: Please see FaninOz's post and my following response below.

Test dates and local times + my calculation of UK time are:

Nov 23-27: First Test: Australia v England, Brisbane: Play from 10am (local time); Midnight UK time

Dec 1-5: Second Test: Australia v England, Adelaide: Play from 11am (local time); 12:30 am UK time

Dec 14-18: Third Test: Australia v England, Perth: Play from 10:30am (local time); 02:30 am UK time

Dec 26-30: Fourth Test: Australia v England, Melbourne: Play from 10:30am (local time); 11:30 pm UK time

Jan 2-6: Fifth Test: Australia v England, Sydney: Play from 10:30am (local time); 11:30 pm UK time

Naturally I have no idea as to the broadcast times in the UK and elsewhere.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:49 pm

I'm with CAPS, shall be watching on Thurs (not together mind - I invited him but he wanted to watch it alone).

thebish · Post by **thebish** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:58 pm

me too.. except (err...) not with CAPS - or Batty...

mummywhycantieatcrayons · Post by **mummywhycantieatcrayons** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:22 am

thebish wrote:is anyone planning to stay up all night to watch the first ashes test? And if so - any tips/strategies for surviving the following day?

Pro-Plus.

FaninOz · Post by **FaninOz** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:21 am

Dujon wrote:
At present (and right through the test series) time differences are as follows:-

Western Australia (WACA) + 8

Test dates and local times + my calculation of UK time are:

Dec 14-18: Third Test: Australia v England, Perth: Play from 10:30am (local time); 02:30 am UK time

Naturally I have no idea as to the broadcast times in the UK and elsewhere.

The Western Australian Parliament are currently debating moving to Daylight Saving time and have a vote next Tuesday, 21st November.

It is anticipated that they will vote yes and if so the clocks will change on 3rd December so the time difference for the 3rd Test at WACA will be back to +7hrs.

So start will be still be 10-30am local time which by then should be 3-30am UK time.

As to the result of the series? Well the walking wounded may have a typical back to the wall Dunkirk Spirit approach and spring a few surprises.

To keep the interest of the Australian public alive and the sponsors happy the Australians will have to let England win one of the early Tests, so expect to see a massive win for them in Brisbane, a narrow win for England in Adelaide and then it will be game on for the rest of the series. I hope

Dujon · Post by **Dujon** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:54 pm

Wrong way round, FoZ. Your clocks would go forward one hour to +9 if Western DST is introduced. This pushes the UK time back one hour (viz- 01:30 am). This assumes that the test starts at the same local time and is not shifted to accommodate television scheduling, which is presumably already in place. Mind you I'd be surprised if they began each day's play at 09:30 local.

Thanks for the information. I knew that the matter was under consideration but because I'd heard nothing I assumed that it had been shelved for this year.

Trivia:

For those who are unaware, the Brisbane Cricket Ground is located in the Brisbane suburb of Woolloongabba (pronounced 'Woollen gabber'), which is where the name "The Gabba" originates. I don't think I've heard anyone in the last thirty years or so refer to the ground by its official name (The BCG); everyone refers to it as The Gabba. The cricket playing area (using fences as the criterion) is a tiny, tiny bit larger in area than the MCG. Sir Donald Bradman holds the record for an individual test score at the ground - still - 226 which he made in the first innings of the first test match played at the ground, versus South Africa, in 1931.

thebish · Post by **thebish** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:01 pm

time ticking... one hour to go...

who's stopping up then? I predict I shall nod off at lunch.....

anyone care to offer a first day prediction:

if Australia bat: 287 for 4
if England bat: 187 for 6

PS: Giles in over Monty...

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