Some advice from wiser heads.

[Dr.Karl]

I wouldn't want to blame 18 year olds for going to university, the chance of going away from home, getting pissed for three years and then with the small possibility of getting a decent job at the end of it seems an attractive option. All of this at the tax payers expense, no less. Worthless as some degrees are, if everyone was given that chance 30 years ago a fair few would have took it.

The system is flawed, but to blame teenagers for exploiting it is the wrong answer. Not once did I hear about vocational course at College or School, the only option that seemed to be pushed was higher education. The point is that schools and colleges are producing individuals without drive and motivation to get into jobs, in fact they're producing the exact opposite, apathetic and lazy pupils because they haven't been pushed academically and haven't been given the full lowdown on what you can do out there.

[blurred]

Which is nonsence because quite frankly some of the stuff I get from graduates and undergraduates shows me they should be back in school learning who to construct sentences and add up.

Errors in here intentional, surely?

[communistworkethic]

Which is nonsence because quite frankly some of the stuff I get from graduates and undergraduates shows me they should be back in school learning who to construct sentences and add up.

Errors in here intentional, surely?

laziness and actually having a job to do.

[keveh]

Which is nonsence because quite frankly some of the stuff I get from graduates and undergraduates shows me they should be back in school learning who to construct sentences and add up.

Errors in here intentional, surely?

laziness and actually having a job to do.

as your 7000+ posts suggest

[communistworkethic]

Which is nonsence because quite frankly some of the stuff I get from graduates and undergraduates shows me they should be back in school learning who to construct sentences and add up.

Errors in here intentional, surely?

laziness and actually having a job to do.

as your 7000+ posts suggest

Delegation and good time management. Just got no bloody staff , sorry "collegeagues", in today.

[thebish]

Which is nonsence because quite frankly some of the stuff I get from graduates and undergraduates shows me they should be back in school learning who to construct sentences and add up.

Errors in here intentional, surely?

If my memory serves me right, there is a law (named after some bloke, I believe) - much like "Murphy's Law" or "Sod's Law" (yes, I know that one isn't named after a person!) which states that if you make a post which moans about someone else's poor spelling or grammar, your own post will itself display some spelling or grammar glitch.

I think it was DSB that told me the name of this law once upon a time - what was it called?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Which is nonsence because quite frankly some of the stuff I get from graduates and undergraduates shows me they should be back in school learning who to construct sentences and add up.

Errors in here intentional, surely?

If my memory serves me right, there is a law (named after some bloke, I believe) - much like "Murphy's Law" or "Sod's Law" (yes, I know that one isn't named after a person!) which states that if you make a post which moans about someone else's poor spelling or grammar, your own post will itself display some spelling or grammar glitch.

I think it was DSB that told me the name of this law once upon a time - what was it called?

I knew it (from Paul McFedries' WordSpy mailout - http://www.wordspy.com) as McKean's Law after an American lexicographer. However, the user-generated content pixies at Wikipedia tell us it has other names...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_McKean

[norm the jedi]

But that's what the system has created, every Tom, Dick and Harriet is going off to get a degree, doesn't matter what in. So when they apply for jobs, it's almost become a given that it's asked for. Which is nonsence because quite frankly some of the stuff I get from graduates and undergraduates shows me they should be back in school learning who to construct sentences and add up.

Don't let anyone try and kid you that eductation hasn't been dumbed down, the level of literacy in this country is a joke. They made GCSE maths easier, so that kids weren't as stressed by it! FFS, when I was at school they made us sit CSE maths papers aged 12/13 because the O level paper we would be sitting at 16 was so much more difficult.

There's been too much emphasis on league tables and X% of kids having to enter university or pass exams - I mean is it grade G that is classed as passing GCSEs these days? "More kids are getting As than ever before", well if that is the case then something is wrong, either the papers are getting easier or the grading structure is not sufficiently robust to deal with the differentiation required to identify the top performers. When I was at school a C was the minimum pass grade and that's where you would expect the majority of people to be around. Not 50% getting A's that just makes a mockery of the whole thing.

CAPS and others are right about the nature of degrees. It used to be the case that if you had a degree, it meant you were part of an educational elite and you came out with a qualification that was worth something. Nowadays, so what if you've got a degree? You and half the other young adults your age. The courses being undertaken are wishy-washy - Media Studies is the fastest growing course in the country, well it will help you sit on your butt watching "Trisha" while you aren't in work. Universities are shutting down science departments because they can't fill the courses because kids don't think they are sexy enough! Education sexy??? It's not meant to be sexy, it's about learning a good lecturer will make it "sexy" by showing how it applies in everyday life. But of course Media Studies is 8-10 hours a week of lectures, sciences are 20+, why go down the route that involves some work??

Dax, some things will always stand you in good stead - hard work and a willingness to do it, ability to cope with change, ability to deal effectively with people at different levels, ability to listen, ask relevent questions and comprehend and problem solving.

I agree on Degrees.. and about 5 years ago thought much the same about gcse.. but having had two kids in secondary school for the last 7 years, one now on a vocational college Hnd and the other more scholarly in a traditional sense I think the Dumb down argument over simplifies and misses the point a bit.. My two have brought homework home to their traditional degree educational elite dad who has disciovered that they are studying subject areas he passed his o'levels in before they even get to their two years GCSE studies.. As for course work.. feck me I'd have never made it..
League tables are clearly a bad thing because there is little 'value added' in stats but I think to a great degree kids get better results because broadly speaking they are working harder and for longer than I ever did.. Poor Literacy is as much cultural and social as educational.. They stopped teaching Grammar before I got to senior school.. txt ms word spell check etc has done for an awful lot of spelling and don't start me on punctuation! G may be a pass in GCSE but it won't get you feck all and A to C is what counts for the league tables..
I was fortunate to get my degree part time whilst already working.. I was paying, at a time when many of my peers weren't and I wanted to do it for the sense of achieving and had the added spur or pressure of not wanting to blow the dough so I worked hard. We already had a young family and I had one career already so finishing the course with my little 2-1 was an end in itself.. Whatever you study .. Hallmark warning ..take some time to learn about yourself.. not in some LA self discovery styley but accept your strengths and work on your weaknesses, if you have something you enjoy and are enthusiastic about you will do better at it than sticking at something you feel you should do or feel that others will respect you for..
Its that change the stuff you can and don't fret too much about what you can't thing..

[TANGODANCER]

It's a little difficult to comment on today's standards as things have changed so much over fifty years. At one time everything was geared at different job levels. Everyone wanted to be an engineer, architect, teacher etc, and there were apprenticeships to serve to learn trades. I did five years of one day and two evening a week at school in order to pass a City and Guilds course. You got buttons of a wage until you were eighteen (you were then considered an improver as opposed to an apprentice) then another wage scale until you were twenty one and finally became a fully-fledged journeyman.

Today, every kid has visions of being a footballer or pop star until some reality kicks in. University is seen as another reason to avoid getting a full-time job and I don't want anyone to tell me that a lot of University educations don't go to waste because students don't study hard enough. My friend's son, a bright lad, went to University and his mother paid his comfortable little way for four years whilst he became a vodka addict. He then left and decided not to carry on. He finished up on the checkout at Asda. Okay, he has now seen the light and put his education to use and works in a bank. His story is not unique. I'm lucky, two of my kids got degrees and used them. Both work for solicitors and are doing fine. The range of work has changed drastically with much less emphasis on the manual end and more on office-orientated employment. But there are still a lot of young who see it all as a pleasure cruise to be enjoyed and wory about later. That, I'm afraid, is the fault of the system, TV and computers. Those who advocate a return to the three "R's" are, in my opinion, not far from being absolutely right.

[thebish]

University has changed in many ways...

when I went - (mumble, mumble, many years ago, mumble) - Students were famous for dossing around all day (and shagging all night) - and when they weren't doing that it was politics - marches, demos..

at Uni I did hardly any work in my first two years - they didn't count towards my degree (Maths & Stats). My tutor told me if I worked really really hard in year three I might scrape a 2-1 and if I carried on as I was I'd come out with a Desmond. I settled for the Desmond..

nowadays students don't really do politics - they don't campaign on behalf of anything (except themselves occasionally) and they have to work in years one and two as well as three - and they don't get it all funded by the govt. like I did (including supplementary benefit, and housing benefit in the summer holidays - remember that!!)

Many of them are doing micky-mouse degrees - and there are probably loads there who shouldn't be there. What I'm not sure about is whether University is still the mind-expanding experience that it used to be... (because of the politics and the all-night discussions about Marxism - and the Che Guevara posters!) - or whether I'm simply turning into a grumpy old man remembering the good-old-days through rose-tinted glasses...

[superjohnmcginlay]

University has changed in many ways...

when I went - (mumble, mumble, many years ago, mumble) - Students were famous for dossing around all day (and shagging all night) - and when they weren't doing that it was politics - marches, demos..

at Uni I did hardly any work in my first two years - they didn't count towards my degree (Maths & Stats). My tutor told me if I worked really really hard in year three I might scrape a 2-1 and if I carried on as I was I'd come out with a Desmond. I settled for the Desmond..

nowadays students don't really do politics - they don't campaign on behalf of anything (except themselves occasionally) and they have to work in years one and two as well as three - and they don't get it all funded by the govt. like I did (including supplementary benefit, and housing benefit in the summer holidays - remember that!!)

Many of them are doing micky-mouse degrees - and there are probably loads there who shouldn't be there. What I'm not sure about is whether University is still the mind-expanding experience that it used to be... (because of the politics and the all-night discussions about Marxism - and the Che Guevara posters!) - or whether I'm simply turning into a grumpy old man remembering the good-old-days through rose-tinted glasses...

You guys sure knew how to party.

[communistworkethic]

University has changed in many ways...

when I went - (mumble, mumble, many years ago, mumble) - Students were famous for dossing around all day (and shagging all night) - and when they weren't doing that it was politics - marches, demos..

at Uni I did hardly any work in my first two years - they didn't count towards my degree (Maths & Stats). My tutor told me if I worked really really hard in year three I might scrape a 2-1 and if I carried on as I was I'd come out with a Desmond. I settled for the Desmond..

nowadays students don't really do politics - they don't campaign on behalf of anything (except themselves occasionally) and they have to work in years one and two as well as three - and they don't get it all funded by the govt. like I did (including supplementary benefit, and housing benefit in the summer holidays - remember that!!)

Many of them are doing micky-mouse degrees - and there are probably loads there who shouldn't be there. What I'm not sure about is whether University is still the mind-expanding experience that it used to be... (because of the politics and the all-night discussions about Marxism - and the Che Guevara posters!) - or whether I'm simply turning into a grumpy old man remembering the good-old-days through rose-tinted glasses...

You guys sure knew how to party.

You can't beat a good Communist Party!!

[superjohnmcginlay]

University has changed in many ways...

when I went - (mumble, mumble, many years ago, mumble) - Students were famous for dossing around all day (and shagging all night) - and when they weren't doing that it was politics - marches, demos..

at Uni I did hardly any work in my first two years - they didn't count towards my degree (Maths & Stats). My tutor told me if I worked really really hard in year three I might scrape a 2-1 and if I carried on as I was I'd come out with a Desmond. I settled for the Desmond..

nowadays students don't really do politics - they don't campaign on behalf of anything (except themselves occasionally) and they have to work in years one and two as well as three - and they don't get it all funded by the govt. like I did (including supplementary benefit, and housing benefit in the summer holidays - remember that!!)

Many of them are doing micky-mouse degrees - and there are probably loads there who shouldn't be there. What I'm not sure about is whether University is still the mind-expanding experience that it used to be... (because of the politics and the all-night discussions about Marxism - and the Che Guevara posters!) - or whether I'm simply turning into a grumpy old man remembering the good-old-days through rose-tinted glasses...

You guys sure knew how to party.

You can't beat a good Communist Party!!

Stalin n Lenin dont look too impressed.

[communistworkethic]

It's Marx, he always has to be centre of attention, can't take his vodka and first to photocopy his arse.

[thebish]

You can't beat a good Communist Party!!

that looks exactly like all our university parties...

[chris]

I'm doing Maths, and I've swopped to the four year Masters degree to try to make it look better to employers. But getting work experience is important too - I'm in my penultimate year and am desparately looking for a summer job with a professional company rather than manual labour work.

You need an impressive subject to make you look good to employers.

[Daxter]

Thanks for all the helpful comments.

I have come to a straight decison between media and Communication studies.

I reckon i will enjoy Media more but maybe Communication is more suited to what i want to do.

Any advice for the final time?

[CrazyHorse]

My only advice is whatever you choose, make sure you enjoy yourself and have a laugh.

[Daxter]

Aye yes cheers for the kind words oh crazy one.

[Daxter]

On a sidenote i remember when i was younger people uses to say " when you finish school you wont like it and you'll wish you were back at school". I uses to baffled as to how they could make such a comment, but now i realise, when you are at school. life is so easy not a worry in the world.

Now im 16 have to make all these decisions, get a part time job and so on. And Im sure life is a hell of a lot more complicated for some of you on here.